EDShipyard wrong? How do shields work?

KaizoMK

KaizoMK
Class 7E shields on a clipper show 234J. But class 6E shields on a python show 300, and 6E on an anaconda show 370...both of the latter exceed optimal weight whereas clipper falls within its optimal weight.

Am I missing something? How could an anaconda get more shields when it's closer to its max weight? How could a class 7 shield be worse than a class 6?
 

Forlorn

Forlorn
KaizoMK said:
Class 7E shields on a clipper show 234J. But class 6E shields on a python show 300, and 6E on an anaconda show 370...

... How could a class 7 shield be worse than a class 6?
Click to expand...

The only valid comparison of different class/ratings on shield strength is when only one ship is involved.

For one reason, each ship is a different size/shape, which could theoretically alter the shield strength due to geometric stresses.

For another, that's the way they coded it :)

I still think it's odd that a 3A and a 2A have the same strength on a Hauler, but I don't know if that's a bug in EDShipyard or in the game - never bothered to check the corresponding shield strength in the game itself.
 
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Frenotx

Frenotx
Forlorn said:
The only valid comparison of different class/ratings on shield strength is when only one ship is involved.

For one reason, each ship is a different size/shape, which could theoretically alter the shield strength due to geometric stresses.

For another, that's the way they coded it :)

I still think it's odd that a 3A and a 2A have the same strength on an adder, but I don't know if that's a bug in EDShipyard or in the game - never bothered to check the corresponding shield strength in the game itself.
Click to expand...

The adder "anomoly" is due to the ship being so far below optimal mass even the 2a generator puts the adder's shield at its maximum value.
 

Cliffson

Cliffson
As mentioned it's to do with the ship's personal shield rating characteristic.

Personally I think that it has far to much impact on the ratings, a courier has almost twice the shields of a viper with the same sized generator.

The Python has much more powerful shields than the ASP with the same generator.

I guess you can argue that those ships are 10-20 times the price of the comparison ship, but that's not really a design feature I care much for either.
 

Don Alvarez

Don Alvarez
KaizoMK said:
Class 7E shields on a clipper show 234J. But class 6E shields on a python show 300, and 6E on an anaconda show 370...both of the latter exceed optimal weight whereas clipper falls within its optimal weight.

Am I missing something? How could an anaconda get more shields when it's closer to its max weight? How could a class 7 shield be worse than a class 6?
Click to expand...
The Empire doesn't care if you live or die in the colds of space, they just want you to pay more for a class 7 shield generator.
 

RustyLeg

R
The formula for shields is more or less: Ratio of shield opt mass to base hull mass (with a 0.5/1.5 cap which is why class 2 and 3 shields are the same in the hauler), multiplied by a factor of how many ranks above or below C it is, multiplied by a static constant for the ship, which is completely arbitrary. This constant is low for a Clipper, but high for Pythons, hence why their shields are what they are.
 

ocflyer

ocflyer
Forlorn said:
I still think it's odd that a 3A and a 2A have the same strength on a Hauler, but I don't know if that's a bug in EDShipyard or in the game - never bothered to check the corresponding shield strength in the game itself.
Click to expand...

It is interesting to note that the Hauler has a hull mass of 14T (according to ED Shipyard), the 2A Shield Generator has an optimal mass of 55T and the 3A Shield Generator has an optimal mass of 165T. Perhaps the 2A and 3A Shield Generators have the same strength on a hauler because the 2A optimal mass is 55/14 or 3.9X and the 3A optimal mass is 165/14 or 11.8X of the hauler's hull mass. It is reasonable to state that the larger shield generator creates a larger shield geometry to protect larger ships and at some point, the larger shield generator stops adding shield strength and merely increases the size of the field. I suspect that shield generators with optimal mass >2X the hull mass don't add shield strength but merely extend the geometry of the shield, resulting in the same shield strength at the larger geometry. By comparison, the Adder (35T hull mass) with 2A gives shield strength of 94MJ while the 3A gives 102MJ - so little difference for a much bigger shield generator. Notice that the 2A optimal mass is 55/35 or 1.6X of the Adder's hull mass, almost at the 2X limit, while the 3A optimal mass is 165/35 or 4.7X of the Adder's hull mass which is far beyond the 2X limit. This supports my hypothesis that you don't see a benefit if the shield generator's optimal mass is >2X the hull mass.
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I see from RustyLeg's post that he believes the cap is 1.5X not 2X. In either case, it seems reasonable that you can't simply install an insanely large shield generator and get a stronger shield. Unlike the common saying, for shield generators, "size matters".
 
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EUS

EUS
KaizoMK said:
Class 7E shields on a clipper show 234J. But class 6E shields on a python show 300, and 6E on an anaconda show 370...both of the latter exceed optimal weight whereas clipper falls within its optimal weight. Am I missing something? How could an anaconda get more shields when it's closer to its max weight? How could a class 7 shield be worse than a class 6?
Click to expand...
This topic covers all you can ever want to know about shields, and here's the hilights: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=102277&p=1584938&viewfull=1#post1584938 https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=102277&p=1592273&viewfull=1#post1592273
 

RustyLeg

R
I've made my own shield optimiser tool (for given limit of energy, weight and credits it works out the combination of generator, boosters and cells that will give you the strongest shields) and my results match edshipyard and coriolis exactly, so I reckon I've got the right formula.
 

tomalus

T
clipper shields are puny on purpose, if they werent it would be perfect ship. And thats why its hardpoints are so bad also.
 
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