EGX 2015 Vive Demo vs. Todays Issues

[shadragon]

Mods: Before you reflexively dump this topic into the VR folder, I'm placing this thread in Dangerous Discussions deliberately as it touches on EGX, VR, game play, tech support, marketing and game demos in broad strokes. I'd also like to poll the general population who attended EGX and few people go into the VR discussion folder regularly. If you do choose to move the thread, please give it a day so that the majority can see it first. Thanks.

Those few lucky people who have received their HTC Vives are reporting some issues with the HMD in rendering Elite Dangerous. Pixelation, smearing and low resolutions among others.

Yet, during last years EGX, there was an HTC Vive - SteamVR set up for people to try with Elite: Dangerous. Everyone seemed blown away with the experience and good things were heard all round. Yet, here we are six months later and everyone has issues using the Vive all of a sudden. This, in my mind at least, is a conundrum.

I'd like to ask the people who were at EGX 2015 (and who tried the Vive demo) what their impressions were of the HTC Vive demo. Did you experience any issues at the time with low-res, smearing or indeed anything of consequence? If you own an HTC Vive today AND attended EGX, were there any differences you noted between the two experiences?

To Frontier staff: What was the hardware being used at the EGX show? Titan X GPU with top of the line i7's? Do you have any relevant info why there has been such a downturn in quality?

I'm just finding it hard to reconcile how VR E: D got such rave reviews six months ago with that demo and is now having such staggering issues. Does anyone have any insight that I'm missing?

Here's a video of the event, courtesy of OA.

Spoiler

[video=youtube;OCYcMqt7cmA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCYcMqt7cmA[/video]

 

[RancidRance]

I tried the Vive at EGX last year on ED (I was lucky as well since I was the last person who was able to given the time constraints). Now my memory isn't perfect but for me it went something like this. I only got to play the basic ship v ship training missions, this was my first time seeing Elite in VR so I was quite impressed about all the details in the ship I'd missed, however when I was focusing on targets in front me like an enemy sidewinder, I could clearly make out the pixels.

I think it got rave reviews because the majority of people who queued to try the Vive for ED had never seen ED in VR before (the queue was long so people who already have VR might have not thought it was worth it). The first impression of ED in VR is impressive for everyone, giving a big wow reaction, but when looking at the details closer, it becomes easier to notice the flaws. Also remember that people were only getting a few minutes each to try it out. I assume frontier would run the system on the best machines they could get.

 

[shadragon]

Possibly, but that doesn't explain the difference between what people saw then and what we have today.

 

[dutchy2000]

It highly likely has something to do with the optimizations done for the oculus. Maybe in a certain mode the resolution doesn't match the native resolution of the vive and the rendering looks bad. Its software development, things happen, sometimes working things get broken by something else. It happens, it will get fixed. I don't get all the negativity about it, yes it sucks, yes they know, yes they are working on it. Please stop having a heart attack due to it, its almost like when they said nothing about the oculus due to NDAs and other stuff people were proclaiming they abandoned VR and all kinds of other non-sense. This is the same, get over it.

 

[bitstorm]

NO idea but I imagine a bunch of us ED players have Vive preordered, it would be cool to know where we stand before it arrives. That way we can make the decision to cancel, return or not.

I mean at EGX I got the impression there was some sort of HTC/ED partnership going on which swayed a bunch of us to Vive, but from what I've read ED is kinda broken on Vive and it only actually works properly on Rift?

Though I imagine now might not be the best time what with crunch for 2.1.

 

[shadragon]

Maybe so, but it should be a fairly simple question to answer. The demo was fighting a single Sidey in an asteroid field, the standard tutorial I suspect. If that worked fine on Vive then the release copy of the game should as well.

Just trying to reconcile the apparent difference between then and now and I'm not sure if it's technical or subjective opinion as I never saw the demo.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

I guess some of my thoughts are already in this thread...

But to confirm some of my experience. The Vive demo for Elite at EGX was exceptionally good, it was clearly a very high frame rate - there was no latency. There was also no smearing. The resolution was very good. Whilst some people may say they could clearly see pixels, that is simply the nature of the current generation of VR headsets. I haven't had the chance to try Elite on the release Vive or the release Oculus Rift, so all I have for comparison is the DK2. The Vive demo was leaps and bounds beyond the DK2. There were no issues at all with reading the text.

I'm surprised to hear about all of these problems, and would really like to hear Frontier's comments on it. Technically in terms of VR, there was no problems at all with the build of Elite at EGX.

 

[Cruise]

I think FD should release a set up guide, for people to get the best result with their new Vive.
People are investing a lot of money in the new kit(myself included), an idiots guide to ED & your new Vive, is clearly needed.
I have already sent a message to Zac on this(no reply as yet), may be if more people ask for this, FD will act.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Mods: Before you reflexively dump this topic into the VR folder, I'm placing this thread in Dangerous Discussions deliberately as it touches on EGX, VR, game play, tech support, marketing and game demos in broad strokes. I'd also like to poll the general population who attended EGX and few people go into the VR discussion folder regularly. If you do choose to move the thread, please give it a day so that the majority can see it first. Thanks.

Those few lucky people who have received their HTC Vives are reporting some issues with the HMD in rendering Elite Dangerous. Pixelation, smearing and low resolutions among others.

Yet, during last years EGX, there was an HTC Vive - SteamVR set up for people to try with Elite: Dangerous. Everyone seemed blown away with the experience and good things were heard all round. Yet, here we are six months later and everyone has issues using the Vive all of a sudden. This, in my mind at least, is a conundrum.

I'd like to ask the people who were at EGX 2015 (and who tried the Vive demo) what their impressions were of the HTC Vive demo. Did you experience any issues at the time with low-res, smearing or indeed anything of consequence? If you own an HTC Vive today AND attended EGX, were there any differences you noted between the two experiences?

To Frontier staff: What was the hardware being used at the EGX show? Titan X GPU with top of the line i7's? Do you have any relevant info why there has been such a downturn in quality?

I'm just finding it hard to reconcile how VR E: D got such rave reviews six months ago with that demo and is now having such staggering issues. Does anyone have any insight that I'm missing?

Here's a video of the event, courtesy of OA.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OCYcMqt7cmA

Since EGX 2015 there have been some revisions to the Steam VR software which may have caused some issues. The only thing I can think of.

 

[megadonkeyx]

Since EGX 2015 there have been some revisions to the Steam VR software which may have caused some issues. The only thing I can think of.

interesting point but you can go into Tools menu in steam and roll steamvr back to any preceding version. surely someone has tried that as it would be the first thing i would do..

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

interesting point but you can go into Tools menu in steam and roll steamvr back to any preceding version. surely someone has tried that as it would be the first thing i would do..

I hope so. I don't have a Vive, or a rift or anything yet other wise I would try :-(

Can't wait to get my hands on one though.

 

[Crook]

I think a lot of us are waiting until enough people use it long term and say it's good enough to justify the price, then we'll buy it. I still have a DK1 which showed me the promise of VR, now I'm waiting for confirmation that it's been delivered on.

 

[shadragon]

interesting point but you can go into Tools menu in steam and roll steamvr back to any preceding version. surely someone has tried that as it would be the first thing i would do..

Excellent observation. Cheers.

 

[RancidRance]

I guess some of my thoughts are already in this thread...

But to confirm some of my experience. The Vive demo for Elite at EGX was exceptionally good, it was clearly a very high frame rate - there was no latency. There was also no smearing. The resolution was very good. Whilst some people may say they could clearly see pixels, that is simply the nature of the current generation of VR headsets. I haven't had the chance to try Elite on the release Vive or the release Oculus Rift, so all I have for comparison is the DK2. The Vive demo was leaps and bounds beyond the DK2. There were no issues at all with reading the text.

I'm surprised to hear about all of these problems, and would really like to hear Frontier's comments on it. Technically in terms of VR, there was no problems at all with the build of Elite at EGX.

It was my first time using VR so I didn't really have much of a comparison for pixel visibility aside from my screen at home.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

It was my first time using VR so I didn't really have much of a comparison for pixel visibility aside from my screen at home.

I can totally relate to this. VR has got a way to go yet until the pixels aren't noticeable...

 

[shadragon]

I guess some of my thoughts are already in this thread...

But to confirm some of my experience. The Vive demo for Elite at EGX was exceptionally good, it was clearly a very high frame rate - there was no latency. There was also no smearing. The resolution was very good. Whilst some people may say they could clearly see pixels, that is simply the nature of the current generation of VR headsets. I haven't had the chance to try Elite on the release Vive or the release Oculus Rift, so all I have for comparison is the DK2. The Vive demo was leaps and bounds beyond the DK2. There were no issues at all with reading the text.

I'm surprised to hear about all of these problems, and would really like to hear Frontier's comments on it. Technically in terms of VR, there was no problems at all with the build of Elite at EGX.

Thanks, that's exactly what I thought. Something has changed since EGX. I just hope if can be fixed well before the next one.

I can totally relate to this. VR has got a way to go yet until the pixels aren't noticeable...

Agreed. VR is definitely in early days. The wonders of what is to come haven't even been imagined yet. I appreciate the feedback. [up]

 

[ZeeWolf]

Isn't the smearing related to performance? Presumably the demonstration machines would have been Titans or very high end.

The rift seems to work quite well with a GTX 970 as many of us are finding out but that's presumably assisted by timewarp, whereas Frontier's original recommendation was a 980.

 

[777Driver]

Isn't the smearing related to performance? Presumably the demonstration machines would have been Titans or very high end.

The rift seems to work quite well with a GTX 970 as many of us are finding out but that's presumably assisted by timewarp, whereas Frontier's original recommendation was a 980.

Smearing isn't related to performance. You could replicate the smearing problem on the DK2 if you messed around with the windows brightness/contrast settings in extended mode. Am glad I changed my mind and stuck with Oculus, was so close to ordering the Vive.

 

[shadragon]

Smearing isn't related to performance. You could replicate the smearing problem on the DK2 if you messed around with the windows brightness/contrast settings in extended mode. Am glad I changed my mind and stuck with Oculus, was so close to ordering the Vive.

Honestly, it's the fact they had the EGX demo running flawlessly that convinced me to get a Vive. I still feel the issues will be solved and I'll be using VR with a smile shortly. Nothing against OR at all. It's a decent product, but I'm not going to abandon my Vive order yet. I'm taking a much longer view here.

 

[blammotoken]

Just a note - I think the "maybe you were just expecting too much of VR resolution" type of arguments aren't too valid for us. The reason many of us vive users are a little disappointed is comparing Elite to other vive games, and in some cases, to the rift.