Elite Dangerous: A Newcomer Perspective

[Continium]

Hello everybody, and yuletide greetings

Here is my perspective as a newcomer (written more for myself than anyone else - but I decided to share anyhoo, any offence is not intended)

I played the original Elite and Frontier (Elite 2) and enjoyed them greatly, however gaming has now moved on and improved in many area's and I have found that Elite Dangerous, whilst having amazing 4k graphic ability, does not currently live up to what I had expected.

Firstly (and probably something that has been discussed to death) the lack of 3rd person perspective. After finding no option to view my ship from the 'outside' I decided to search the forum, and realized this is design decision to prevent an unfair advantage in dog fights- fair enough. However many gamers spend money on 'costumes' and detailing in order to feel more individual - at is stands, the money I may spend looking 'unique' is not for my benefit (since I cant see it) but for others - so my first suggestion would to be the implementation of a 3rd person perspective in solo play (thereby negating the perceived 'unfair advantage' (NPC's wont care I assume?)

From the product/sales page; a distinct impression is given that you will be able to see your ship from the 3rd person - if this will NEVER be the case - I think this show case needs to be changed.

The game itself - I have found rather... to put it politely... . Having to orientate your ship in a VERY specific manner in order to dock is neither intuitive or enjoyable. Yes I know you can buy an 'auto dock' module, but its slow and clunky.

The above point gives rise to my next problem - this game is not marketed as a 'flight sim' - but that is the 'feel' this game has - it is very about making you do things the 'proper way' rather than an 'intuitive way' - I find it hard to believe that the simplistic computer that landed us on the moon - is somehow unable to help us dock our craft in a quick and easy manner.

Finally, a review of the community; this seems to be a split between hardcore 'sim' fans, and people like myself who do not feel that watching a 'star field' for 40 mins (on the more further space stations) is very 'game like'. And I must say that the original elite and frontier did not make me sit and wait (actively monitoring approach or risk offshoot) it had a very clever time 'speed up' system, which meant you did not have to sit and watch a 'screen saver' for extended periods of time.

You may ask me how we are meant to 'speed up' time in an MMO. My answer is this: Time enhancing 'drugs' - these affect your perception of time (you get to destination 'faster' but the time that passes is perceived as much faster) as a counter balance if you are using these 'drugs' and are interdicted you are thrown into a state of confusion that puts you at a distinct disadvantage.

To end this review/rant - I have to say that many people simply do not have the time to 'enjoy' approaching a destination that takes up to 40 minutes or more (yes I know that you can plan your trade/missions so that you are closer to the required destination) and I completely understand there are people out there who will happily spend an hour or more on 'pre flight checks' (those people who use the very in depth flight system games).

However I feel there needs to be a middle ground, and at the moment I think this game is far to biased towards a 'flight sim' model. If that is the way the game is going to remain - then ok, there is probably nothing I can do to change that - and this game with remain a 'niche - within a niche' and will most likely not garner a very big 'world following'.

However, if there can be a 'meeting of minds' where things are not too simplistic (hand held) and not too hard (flight sim hardcore mode) I believe this game can be a huge success.

I will end in saying: to those who will tell me 'this game is not probably for you' I find that a shame, I REALLY want this game to 'be for me' but as it currently stands - it is far too inaccessible to even to most of the 'hardcore' crowd (coming from someone who played Elite 1/2, original Ultima Online and EVE.

Wishing you all a very merry Christmas - and re-iterating the fact that this post is not an 'attack' on realism, and is rather an 'olive branch' to accessibility that will allow a wider group of people to enjoy this game (NO - not the people who want 'everything on a plate')

 

[Sargon]

Very good post with some very good points... The mention of the starry screensaver made me chuckle...
Merry Christmas to you also!

 

[Cirrus]

It takes you 40 mins to approach a station? What are you doing exactly?

 

[shoXx]

When people buy decals for their cars do they also buy a camera drone so they can see them while driving?

 

[Kamicosmos]

Uh....you apparently don't know that the astronauts had to manually do all that stuff in the Apollo program. Docking to the LEM, decent, landing on the lunar surface, launch, redock. Even most of the Burns, and a good portion of the re-entry processes were manually controlled by the pilots.

I also don't understand the Sim Hate. All the early games were sims too, just back then the computers weren't powerful enough/graphics not good enough to allow some of the stuff they can do now. At the same time, I am always impressed with what games like Wing Commander and the XWing games were able to pull of back then!

Granted, I have been flying sims since around '88, and hold a Private Pilot's licence, so my perspective is obviously skewed a bit, but I actually love having to 'land' every time, plot my routes, etc. I really don't understand why everyone wants to turn this into an arcade twitch based Follow-The-Big-Green-Arrow-to-the-Next-Quest-Point style game.

There are plenty of arcade flight and space shooter 'sims' out there already. There is a definite lack of 'hard-core' flight sims left, and even less Space Sims.

So....let us have our 'hard' game!

(I do agree about a third person view though. I am a screen cap junkie, so I really miss not being able to take 'photos' of my cool space ship against various awesome backgrounds!)

 

[CFGX]

It is kind of weird that in this future universe there are some basic things that can't be done by the computer. For example, there should really be a map mode in supercruise that allows us to see and measure energy/heat from stars at different proximity levels as we approach for refueling.

 

[technophebe]

As a long time Elite player, I found my first couple of days very frustrating. I've written a new player guide designed to gulf the gap between starting out and being able to navigate, profit and enjoy the game.

The community is unfortunately split between the helpful and fractious fairly evenly at the moment and I found navigating the forums to gather all this information difficult to say the least. Here's hoping the guide will save you and some others from the same!

 

[Muthax]

Merry Xmas and welcome!

An external camera for out of combat is in the works, there was a thread a few daysago and a mod confirmed this was being worked on exactly for the reasons you mentioned (decals, taking screenshots etc)

And it's taking you way too long to get to places, I suspect you aren't doing it correctly. Have you tried the travel tutorial and watched the video linked when you select it in the tutorials section of the game? I tried travelling just based on instructions and it was frustrating till I watched the video. Now I rarely overshoot destinations and it doesn't take me too long.

 

[Daeron]

You get in and out of systems and stations faster with practice, it should not take more than 5 minutes or so with a bit of training. There are some approches that can be prolonged, by getting too close to parent bodies for example. But normally the procedure should certainly not be taking like 40 minutes, unless the system in question is abnormally composed. IMHO.

Oh, and a jolly yuletide unto thee as well!

 

[buellpilot]

I REALLY want this game to 'be for me' but as it currently stands - it is far too inaccessible to even to most of the 'hardcore' crowd.

I am a casual gamer, I must be I have an Xbox 360 and One, I often hear about all these hardcore gamers who like hardcore games. However, I find Elite Dangerous perfectly accessible, perhaps 'hardcore' gamers are a bit softer than they like to portray

You NEVER have to spend 40 minutes in super cruise if you don't want to. Sure if you pick up a mission to a binary system like Alpha Centauri you might need to spend a bit longer in super cruise, but the choice is yours you can drop the cargo and abandon the mission, sure there will be some minor consequences but its your decision to make.

 

[Continium]

Thanks for the replies.

Some have recognized the difficulties the game faces and others have confirmed the idea that a certain segment choose to ignore the meat of this review and instead used straw man arguments to counter it (car comment: you get out of your car and can look at it), Apollo moon mission comment - yes astronoughts 'imputed' data - its now the year 2014 and we have Amazon using automated robots to deliver stock but in year 3000+ we have seemingly 'lost this' ability in docking maneuvers? ... OK.

Starting to be put off by the hostility and passive aggressive comments by some in this community

 

[Fiddly Fingers]

Good post Continium,

I will just state that I share your views on E, I was hoping also looking forward to a slightly different product. But alas I have since long realised that telling customers (ever so politely) who have become emotionally invested in a product that their view of awesomeness is not perhaps universally shared will just tailspin and make them find increasingly creative arguments as to how and why the product is great and you are stupid. But hey, give E a year or two and Frontier might have stopped listening to the whales.

 

[Connor Caple]

This is not a sim.

If technology in the year 3000+ is this backwards, it needs help! Even quite cheap current aircraft can do an automatic ILS approach without needing to give up their cargo hold for it

I waited a long time to play this game, after playing the original in 1984, and am quite disappointed with the 'vision' of the future we have to put up with. It makes FireFly look positively advanced

I never thought I'd say this, but X3 does some things a lot better than ELITE does, so how is that progress?

Why should my futuristic ship not have a computer that is capable of more than showing me a map and an inventory? Why can't it auto-record market information for me when I dock in a station? Paper and pens in the 33rd century, hmm?

No, it's not a simulation because mankind's technological advances have always been about making things easier, not restricting them because some minority want it to be hard.

Still, I'm getting used to being ignored - ever since my single-player space exploration game turned into this MMO travesty which I get to play 'solo' as long as my internet is working, and the servers stay up. Sheesh.

I enjoy the exploration, I just think the nonsensical design decisions in this game beggar belief.

 

[shoXx]

Thanks for the replies.

Some have recognized the difficulties the game faces and others have confirmed the idea that a certain segment choose to ignore the meat of this review and instead used straw man arguments to counter it (car comment: you get out of your car and can look at it), Apollo moon mission comment - yes astronoughts 'imputed' data - its now the year 2014 and we have Amazon using automated robots to deliver stock but in year 3000+ we have seemingly 'lost this' ability in docking maneuvers? ... OK.

Starting to be put off by the hostility and passive aggressive comments by some in this community

I guess in the 34th century computers can just about do anything, probably better than a human, there's nothing tricky in docking that can't be overcome with practice, saying a computer could make docking easier is kinda lazy IMO. Sure it could, it could also dogfight better than a human, navigate better and make the pilot (who'd be no more than a passenger) a nice hot Earl Grey.

I'm glad computers aren't taking over things in ED, it gives me things to do.

 

[MrVibrating]

Agree with the OP and Connor above - David Braben's talked of recapturing the 'immediacy' of classic Elite, however ED doesn't currently seem to be achieving this.. the ships' computer systems are inexplicably spartan, the pacing is dictated rather than at the players' leisure, and - i've probably worn out the word 'neurotic' lately - but there's an overriding sense of pettiness WRT what's in or out - landing pad alignment, external views, keyboard shortcuts.. too many barriers to the kind of imaginative and open, free play style the game is supposed to be indulging.

It needs to be more obliging in all these respects, relaxed, compliant, and intuitive. It needs to intelligently decide what is 'interface', and what is 'game' (ie. WRT shortcuts, views etc.) and tone down some of the more intrusive restrictions...

 

[MrVibrating]

Delonghi CTZ 4003 Toaster

Incidentally, re. the Delonghi CTZ 4003 toaster: If anyone's been having the problem where attempting to toast a crumpet using the bagel setting and getting an uneven toast on the crust, i feel compelled to point out that mine hasn't been experiencing this problem, and i've been enjoying a consistent and uniform toasting on both sides, and all toast colour settings.

Perhaps this isn't the toaster for you, and you'd be better off buying a blender, or steam iron.

 

[Patrick_68000]

When people buy decals for their cars do they also buy a camera drone so they can see them while driving?

Absolutely, every day, regularly

 

[agent1138]

I'm an actual newcomer, never played any of the previous Elites, I love how it doesn't have 3rd person, I Love the Mining, I love the Physics, I love the Combat, I love the Localised damage, I love everything about this game. Voyaging slowly to Sorbago, so excited to be part this epic game that will only get better over time as all our actions start to influence the galaxy.

 

[xxiii]

These are some of my semi-random thoughts on the matter: I think the game does find a middle ground between "sim" and "game", though it might be a little more toward the sim side than the game side for some. For others, its too much on the game side.

For example, the game ignores relativity and has FTL, and sometimes the flight assist seems to be able to do magical things (for instance, I can be going a 1000c in one direction, and do a 180 and now I'm going a 1000c in the other direction, without changing my acceleration, which would require actually banking against something, and not just a simulation (by the flight-assist) of banking against something). Perhaps all the heads-up stuff is just very, very good at concealing what the super-cruise engines actually have to do to accomplish that though.

Personally, I'd rather see micro-jumps than time-compression; although the micro-jump module should probably take up room, and have to be found/installed, etc.

I've noticed when manual landing, I usually just land like an airplane would, rather than a helicopter, even though the helicopter method is the "proper" way to do it apparently.

I think the docking computer is easy (usually), but not quick, and it occasionally screws up. I usually use the docking computer for convenience reasons, even though I'm quite capable of landing manaully; I do wish it was faster though. With outposts, I find if I get it roughly over the pad its going to before letting it take over, its a bit quicker.

The fact that the game doesn't implement a lot of automation that could be reasonably be expected to exist in 3300, or makes you "do things", I think is part of the concession to the game side of it.

In X-Plane (A flight simulator) an 8 hour flight from New York to LA takes, 8 hours. In real time.

I do find some forum posts to be a bit, judgmental, for lack of a better term. Especially when someone is playing the game in a way that somebody else doesn't think it should be played in.

I suspect some of the things the OP is concerned about will be addressed eventually in some way (micro-jumps for example); as I think this is more of a game with a simulator feel, than a simulator with a game feel (whereas X-Plane is the opposite). I like the idea of various modules with trade-offs that you can get, so you can customize the experience to what you want, and ignore the thinks you don't like, while at the same time not just making it pointless. (why don't I just tell my computer what buy/sell points at what markets I want, and let it do everything for me, while I go play Simcity as it makes money for me in the background?).

A bit more on the docking: I found it very frustrating at first, but eventually it gets pretty easy to just approach and land in a way that's pretty quick, if you don't want to use/wait for the docking computer (or don't have one). Especially once you realize all it really cares about is that you be in the right place on pad, facing the right way, at near 0 speed, but it doesn't really care how you get there. The docking computer uses the official "driving school" method of parking, then there is the what you actually do when you've been driving for years, and you long ago stopped inspecting your car from bumper to bumper every time you get in it.

I'm more frustrated by the time it takes to turn the ship around so I can take off again and/or get in and out of the hanger. Especially as the GUI is only partially functional while this is going on (which is better than it used to be; time was you couldn't do anything at all while this was going on).

I find certain parts of the game somewhat zen-like, but I realize this isn't everyone's cup of tea (or coffee). I like that the game supports different play styles and modes of operating, but I think its still a work in progress in that regard.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

When people buy decals for their cars do they also buy a camera drone so they can see them while driving?

I used to wear/style my hair in a certain way, because I liked it. but I eventually realized what I actually need to do is figure out how to get everyone else to wear their hair in that way...

I hope there will eventually be some outposts or stations with mirrored surfaces that I could fly up to and admire myself though.

 

[Uncle Natron]

The OP stated he wants to like this game, and if he's being honest, he will. Otherwise, he will continue to find things that bug him and move on. He's new to the game and its mechanics, but once he just works with what's available and looks for something he enjoys instead of what he hates (don't like long sc times, move to another system--i travel 2 mins max between my stations and hunting currently; don't like docking, get a docking computer--they are very cheap; want to see your shiny eagle, go to the hangar--flip the lights on and off even), there is a good chance this game really is the one for him.

Don't let this game play you, commanders. And when FD change everything with a patch, adapt to the new rules, do something fun. Play the game.