Elite Dangerous, Dangerous Discussions, Immortal Solo "Fleet Carriers"? Are you serious?

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You know how people get chatty when they are drunk? Well I fired up the computer to try and get a cqc match or two until I fell a sleep at the controls, and got a notificaiton I had a message from some chinese ebay seller I bought a computer cable from recently, explaining how these things take a long time to get here so dont panic. We spent half an hour swapping messages, so given I am seemingly that drunk, this might get entertaining, as I am probably about to make a drunken fool out of my self; however....

The game partially owes me, Over the last for years I've been playing, it, I've jedi mind tricked a few of my buddies into buying the game, and that has in turn meant they conned a few more oftheir other buddies in, all of whom bought paint jobs, books and other "merch". It if were a MLM scheme from the eighties, I'd be sitting on a reasonable sized pyramid in some statistical diagram. As it is, in light of last nights revalations of carebear cosseting carriers - I've got huge ammounts of egg in my face.

Being totally honest with you, I found the star of the carrier reveal yesterday, or more specifically the mechanics associated with it, a hugely disappointing embodiment of disappointment encrusted in meh sprinkles and carebear love.

THE GRAPHICS LOOK GREAT! And I'm sure they will sound awesome too, but....

Really, I wanted the carriers to be this sci-fi franchises equivalent of a star destroyer, elites answer to the titans of eve... I wanted the mere arrival of a carrier in a system to denote a determined and capable squadron arriving, a harbringer or change and most likely turmoil. The arrival of two of them would denote something of biblical scale was about to kick off. That wasn't entirely the work of my imagination, the original hype around these carriers was they would be for squadrons, and present a real force amplifier... With a few minor variations here or there, this was essentially what the aforementioned buddies of mine were also expecting, carriers to be status symbols for squadrons, things that made the squadron much more cohesive, and orders of magnitude more effective.

We had envisaged carriers as being something that could tip the balance in a system. In any situation.
  • Riddled with thargoid scouts incursions?
    • Call in a carrier based squadron, with a carrier placed in the epicentre of all the non human signal sources they'll turn in pilots federation combat bonds for killing thargoid scouts so fast the pilots federation will need to overclock their matroska brain type super computer to keep up with them.
  • Oppressed by a tyrannical government/corporation?
    • Call in a carrier based squadron, they'll be able to run "combat patrols" seeking and destroying all your tyrants agents in space, and dock at their carrier to repair/refuel/rearm with impunity, then hit up their onboard InterStellarFactor to clean their ship and go and run missions for the good guys in true carrot and stick style, your tyrants power structures will collapse faster than a burst balloon.
  • Crops failed and people dying of malnutrition?
    • Call in a.... wait for it.... compassionate carrier based squadron... It'd amaze you how much food can be carried in those great big mofo's for an aid mission.
  • Building a new starport? Need supplies?
    • Guess what, those mercs you were reading about in galnet just rocked up into your system carrying 32,000 tonnes of commodities for your new endeavour - guess they dont just make money from combat bonds and....
  • Over run with pirates? Can't get a decent trade run delivered in your system?
    • Call in a carrier load of bounty hunters who....
You get the idea...

But what have we got, a new ship we cannae fly, it cannae jump without a new commodity that has been alluded to being mined rather than bought? Support ships that are presumably for said foraging for and tending to said carrier. These things are one per player, but one per instance, and cannae be destroyed? And available to anyone with just the base game not horizons, so like every single steam sale alt? Yeah, like this is going to end good. :rolleyes:

For the love of randominous, am I the only one who sees a new stalemate mechanic emerging, carrier squatting. Essentially with whats been said in the forum announcement and commented on by those third parties at the reveal, a new meta will emerge... stockpile alt accounts during sales, spank a few hours mining opals, buy a carrier and park it somewhere of strategic importance to deny enemies access to that area with their carrier based squad. Heaven forbid that any other players could use game mechanics to dismantle someone else's little fiefdom in a Massively Multiplayer Online game. It doesnt bear thinking about, how much toys would we see being thrown out of the prams and floating in the deluge of tears.

TL;DR instead of bringing new life to the game, these carriers are going to end up being nothing more than a new form of grind fuelled e-peen for solo players.
 
You know how people get chatty when they are drunk? Well I fired up the computer to try and get a cqc match or two until I fell a sleep at the controls, and got a notificaiton I had a message from some chinese ebay seller I bought a computer cable from recently, explaining how these things take a long time to get here so dont panic. We spent half an hour swapping messages, so given I am seemingly that drunk, this might get entertaining, as I am probably about to make a drunken fool out of my self; however....

The game partially owes me, Over the last for years I've been playing, it, I've jedi mind tricked a few of my buddies into buying the game, and that has in turn meant they conned a few more oftheir other buddies in, all of whom bought paint jobs, books and other "merch". It if were a MLM scheme from the eighties, I'd be sitting on a reasonable sized pyramid in some statistical diagram. As it is, in light of last nights revalations of carebear cosseting carriers - I've got huge ammounts of egg in my face.

Being totally honest with you, I found the star of the carrier reveal yesterday, or more specifically the mechanics associated with it, a hugely disappointing embodiment of disappointment encrusted in meh sprinkles and carebear love.

THE GRAPHICS LOOK GREAT! And I'm sure they will sound awesome too, but....

Really, I wanted the carriers to be this sci-fi franchises equivalent of a star destroyer, elites answer to the titans of eve... I wanted the mere arrival of a carrier in a system to denote a determined and capable squadron arriving, a harbringer or change and most likely turmoil. The arrival of two of them would denote something of biblical scale was about to kick off. That wasn't entirely the work of my imagination, the original hype around these carriers was they would be for squadrons, and present a real force amplifier... With a few minor variations here or there, this was essentially what the aforementioned buddies of mine were also expecting, carriers to be status symbols for squadrons, things that made the squadron much more cohesive, and orders of magnitude more effective.

We had envisaged carriers as being something that could tip the balance in a system. In any situation.
  • Riddled with thargoid scouts incursions?
    • Call in a carrier based squadron, with a carrier placed in the epicentre of all the non human signal sources they'll turn in pilots federation combat bonds for killing thargoid scouts so fast the pilots federation will need to overclock their matroska brain type super computer to keep up with them.
  • Oppressed by a tyrannical government/corporation?
    • Call in a carrier based squadron, they'll be able to run "combat patrols" seeking and destroying all your tyrants agents in space, and dock at their carrier to repair/refuel/rearm with impunity, then hit up their onboard InterStellarFactor to clean their ship and go and run missions for the good guys in true carrot and stick style, your tyrants power structures will collapse faster than a burst balloon.
  • Crops failed and people dying of malnutrition?
    • Call in a.... wait for it.... compassionate carrier based squadron... It'd amaze you how much food can be carried in those great big mofo's for an aid mission.
  • Building a new starport? Need supplies?
    • Guess what, those mercs you were reading about in galnet just rocked up into your system carrying 32,000 tonnes of commodities for your new endeavour - guess they dont just make money from combat bonds and....
  • Over run with pirates? Can't get a decent trade run delivered in your system?
    • Call in a carrier load of bounty hunters who....
You get the idea...

But what have we got, a new ship we cannae fly, it cannae jump without a new commodity that has been alluded to being mined rather than bought? Support ships that are presumably for said foraging for and tending to said carrier. These things are one per player, but one per instance, and cannae be destroyed? And available to anyone with just the base game not horizons, so like every single steam sale alt? Yeah, like this is going to end good. :rolleyes:

For the love of randominous, am I the only one who sees a new stalemate mechanic emerging, carrier squatting. Essentially with whats been said in the forum announcement and commented on by those third parties at the reveal, a new meta will emerge... stockpile alt accounts during sales, spank a few hours mining opals, buy a carrier and park it somewhere of strategic importance to deny enemies access to that area with their carrier based squad. Heaven forbid that any other players could use game mechanics to dismantle someone else's little fiefdom in a Massively Multiplayer Online game. It doesnt bear thinking about, how much toys would we see being thrown out of the prams and floating in the deluge of tears.

TL;DR instead of bringing new life to the game, these carriers are going to end up being nothing more than a new form of grind fuelled e-peen for solo players.
141204
 
yeah would have been grand if they could be destroyed, after all they're a strategic asset & would have opened it up to bigger epic fleet battles. The online articles would have written themselves. But what can you do, some would have melt downs if they lost it, & even then given the three modes, solo/PG/open, it probably why they can't be destroyed. If they were Open only assets, that needed to be manned continuously around the clock by a squadron, least someone combat log with it & even then given only so many can get into a single instance, if attempting to attack this capital ship, you may not even be able to get into the instance with sufficient numbers. Everything comes down to the ability to instance everything & still allow everyone a fair crack of the whip. Just doesn't seem doable in this game unless they brought in mechanics that would purposely balance out a instance between two rival squadrons or sides.

As for the new meta, not sure when they mean "one per instance" if they mean in 'real space' & not supercruise. I'd imagine when in supercruise & looking at your nav panel, you're gonna see 10 carriers sitting in a Community Group Event while not seeing a single commander because they're all in solo/PG. I think the new meta will be that if you see a carrier in a system, you can bet your bottom dollar they're working the BGS, for what that worth.
 
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You know how people get chatty when they are drunk? Well I fired up the computer to try and get a cqc match or two until I fell a sleep at the controls, and got a notificaiton I had a message from some chinese ebay seller I bought a computer cable from recently, explaining how these things take a long time to get here so dont panic. We spent half an hour swapping messages, so given I am seemingly that drunk, this might get entertaining, as I am probably about to make a drunken fool out of my self; however....

The game partially owes me, Over the last for years I've been playing, it, I've jedi mind tricked a few of my buddies into buying the game, and that has in turn meant they conned a few more oftheir other buddies in, all of whom bought paint jobs, books and other "merch". It if were a MLM scheme from the eighties, I'd be sitting on a reasonable sized pyramid in some statistical diagram. As it is, in light of last nights revalations of carebear cosseting carriers - I've got huge ammounts of egg in my face.

Being totally honest with you, I found the star of the carrier reveal yesterday, or more specifically the mechanics associated with it, a hugely disappointing embodiment of disappointment encrusted in meh sprinkles and carebear love.

THE GRAPHICS LOOK GREAT! And I'm sure they will sound awesome too, but....

Really, I wanted the carriers to be this sci-fi franchises equivalent of a star destroyer, elites answer to the titans of eve... I wanted the mere arrival of a carrier in a system to denote a determined and capable squadron arriving, a harbringer or change and most likely turmoil. The arrival of two of them would denote something of biblical scale was about to kick off. That wasn't entirely the work of my imagination, the original hype around these carriers was they would be for squadrons, and present a real force amplifier... With a few minor variations here or there, this was essentially what the aforementioned buddies of mine were also expecting, carriers to be status symbols for squadrons, things that made the squadron much more cohesive, and orders of magnitude more effective.

We had envisaged carriers as being something that could tip the balance in a system. In any situation.
  • Riddled with thargoid scouts incursions?
    • Call in a carrier based squadron, with a carrier placed in the epicentre of all the non human signal sources they'll turn in pilots federation combat bonds for killing thargoid scouts so fast the pilots federation will need to overclock their matroska brain type super computer to keep up with them.
  • Oppressed by a tyrannical government/corporation?
    • Call in a carrier based squadron, they'll be able to run "combat patrols" seeking and destroying all your tyrants agents in space, and dock at their carrier to repair/refuel/rearm with impunity, then hit up their onboard InterStellarFactor to clean their ship and go and run missions for the good guys in true carrot and stick style, your tyrants power structures will collapse faster than a burst balloon.
  • Crops failed and people dying of malnutrition?
    • Call in a.... wait for it.... compassionate carrier based squadron... It'd amaze you how much food can be carried in those great big mofo's for an aid mission.
  • Building a new starport? Need supplies?
    • Guess what, those mercs you were reading about in galnet just rocked up into your system carrying 32,000 tonnes of commodities for your new endeavour - guess they dont just make money from combat bonds and....
  • Over run with pirates? Can't get a decent trade run delivered in your system?
    • Call in a carrier load of bounty hunters who....
You get the idea...

But what have we got, a new ship we cannae fly, it cannae jump without a new commodity that has been alluded to being mined rather than bought? Support ships that are presumably for said foraging for and tending to said carrier. These things are one per player, but one per instance, and cannae be destroyed? And available to anyone with just the base game not horizons, so like every single steam sale alt? Yeah, like this is going to end good. :rolleyes:

For the love of randominous, am I the only one who sees a new stalemate mechanic emerging, carrier squatting. Essentially with whats been said in the forum announcement and commented on by those third parties at the reveal, a new meta will emerge... stockpile alt accounts during sales, spank a few hours mining opals, buy a carrier and park it somewhere of strategic importance to deny enemies access to that area with their carrier based squad. Heaven forbid that any other players could use game mechanics to dismantle someone else's little fiefdom in a Massively Multiplayer Online game. It doesnt bear thinking about, how much toys would we see being thrown out of the prams and floating in the deluge of tears.

TL;DR instead of bringing new life to the game, these carriers are going to end up being nothing more than a new form of grind fuelled e-peen for solo players.
Yes.
 
They should not be immortal, but tough to destroy. If destroyed, insurance should apply.

We would need new weapons, fleet-sized cannons or such size 5s.

If only.
 
They should not be immortal, but tough to destroy. If destroyed, insurance should apply.

We would need new weapons, fleet-sized cannons or such size 5s.

If only.

i agree, but the problem is, let say a single instance can only fit 50 people, the carrier squadron as 45 members online, all on there friends list whom will get priority into the instance. The 5 random guys who get into that instance won't stand a chance. It will just be exploited through the limitations of instancing unless mechanics were brought in that restricted the number of friendly pilots that could join that instance to leave room for enemy pilots & i'd imagine that would be difficult to implement & could still be exploited. Basically a whole Realm v Realm mechanic would need to be brought in, similar to other mmo like Naval Action that suffer the same instancing problem, to get around it.
 
Ah, the delusion of grandeur is strong in this thread.

Everybody always dreams of being the one ruling the galaxy, never considering that the could get destroyed by others. I've seen it again and again - in this game and other games - dreamers of might and power giving up at the first sign of opposition. Scattered dreams all around, abandoned player factions, abandoned dreams - a galaxy encrusted in salt.
 
I get that you're disappointed (after 3.3, I really get it), but one look at the trajectory of the game over the last 3-4 years should have told you that 'epic fleet battles' were never going to be on FDev's radar. Easy access, simplified mechanics and massive credit earning are the name of the game now.
 
I think alot of what OP wanted is beyond the engine and the team.

If i had designed carriers i think i would have done sometihng a bit like this...

Carriers would be normal ships and would all carry fighters. Light carrier, single medium lift, 2 bays , 2 fighter bays, 75 ly. The exploration choice. Medium carrier 60 ly, i dont care how many lifts or bays, its a mid range ship balanced as such, 4/6 fighter bays, 60ly. Heavy carrier, as revealed, 8 lifts, 8 bays 8 fighter bays 50ly. Just like that...

Carriers would come equipped with an advanced detection system that would automaticaly scan the system upon landing and inform the pilot that the system map is available shortly after.
 
Eve titans work and are fair because a) single instancing means you're never technically limited in the ability to attack it and b) single instancing means you're never technically limited in the ability to defend it.

Without those I'm not sure how any asset designed to actually project a lot of power could be balanced properly.
 
Of course they don't move and can't be flown. They are mobile outposts.
Cap ships crashed the game with movement. FD stopped that shortly. SHEESH
Stationary was the only way to go.
 
Some very good points there, could be summarized as technical debt robbed carriers of their potential from the outset, yet we are still led down a path paved with hype. I think I'll sit this chapter out, work on CQC rank when I feel the Elite itch.
 
I don't really understand Elite any more.

We are immortal, PMFs are immortal, powers are immortal, now carriers are immortal....nothing has consequences.

The only bright spot is NPCs die for some reason, making them a) a fun riff on disposable gig economy workers and b) something that stings when it all goes wrong and they die.

Couple that with less Galnet, frankly unlosable II CGs its a game thats sleepwalking rather than purposefully racing down the street. Nothing is joined up (I mean- another fuel source? Why not use THE BIG BURNING SUNS and gather hydrogen and donate it? Actually make use of 8A scoops?).

I always used to say that I'd wait for more information. However after burning myself several times doing just that I'm not optimistic about FD making Carriers a useful and essential part of ED. Just look at wings (mostly working), multicrew (whats the point, when it works?) CQC (kept alive by die hards which is a shame because its fun), Powerplay (has fantastic scope and potential, kept alive by die hards like me), engineering (lop sided and unbalanced), neglected ships, riddled with inconsistencies...will Carriers deliver anything?
 
I would prefer a moon base. Not sure this as described will bring me back to the game. Considering the total lack of consequence is what prompted my departure this is not good news for me anyway.
 
They are support ships. Carriers, not battleships. Battleships went obsolete in WW2 anyway. I expect that they show up in a system as a POI like the NPC megaships.
 
The only bright spot is NPCs die for some reason, making them a) a fun riff on disposable gig economy workers and b) something that stings when it
No they don't die - they get rebuys just like us - as you would see if you did assassination missions.

So it's consistent, if nothing else.
 
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