Elite Dangerous' Game Design is stuck behind a rock and a hard place

Zaptruder

Zaptruder
I really want to love this game. It ticks so many of the right boxes for me. I love how the ships look. I love the concept of a simulated universe. I loved Frontier and First Encounters to death.

But this game... is a chore. A real bore.

And the biggest problem?

The travel mechanics. On paper, great. Great solution. In practice; Tedious. Wait to get out of mass lock. Wait to go into hyper jump. Wait for hyper jump. Wait to go out of hyper jump. Point ship at target in super cruise. Wait a while for super cruise to get you where you want to go.

You want to investigate something? Wait to slow down to target speed. Wait to drop out of super cruise. Investigate, find nothing probably. Wait to get back into super cruise, wait for super cruise animation, wait to drop in to super cruise.

God forbid you want to actually explore all those blips around you; I hope that's all you want to do. Those missions that give you a system and no point of interest is basically a massive luck based time sink that can never justify their returns.

The worst thing about super cruise is the meat of the travel. It's a bloody screen saver. Requires just enough mental activity to annoy, but not to challenge - keeping the ship pointed in the right direction for course corrections... keeping the throttle in the right range (max, then half way once speed > distance to target x 0.1). So they added interdiction; and the first couple times were fun, but realized that just made the whole process even more annoying, so lowered the rate significantly (I assume... I didn't play during the interdiction heavy period, and only picked it up again a couple days ago - haven't been interdicted once).

It's actually travelling the longest distances that feel the most snappy. Multiple hyper jumps? Just keep pointing and jumping. Small down time.

It didn't have to be this way. But 2 factors have conspired to make it this way.

1. The pseudo-realism; realistic star systems, realistic distances. Huzzah everyone cheered. Now we get to feel how awesome it is to travel the great expanses of space! (hint; there's a lot of blackness and pointing in one direction with small corrections).

2. The multiplayer focus; a living breathing universe. Fantastic idea. Everyone's efforts will effect everyone else's and make it feel like everyone is in this living breathing universe! One moment will never be the same to another!


Frontier and FFE both had 1. But they got around the problem of slow travel by been single player. There was no transitioning between supercruise and normal space - you just had a time dilator button. It's a huge change - in the order of 45-60 seconds (time it tacks to get out of mass lock, wait for SC count down, load into SC) per transition in and out of super cruise/time dilation. Add on top the whole acceleration/deceleration mechanic for SC (where as in Frontier and FFE; you didn't actually slow down in time dilation; you continued heading in the vector you were heading at the speed you were heading - small changes you made to your vector while in real time doing whatever you were doing in real time). Moreover, those SP games had an autopilot system that removed the tedium of handling minor course corrections and minor acceleration and deceleration changes. Essentially you had an encounter, then hit the fast forward button again to admire space travel. Travelling large distances still took time, but it was easier. Handling multiple encounters too was easy; 0 down time between going in and out of encounters.

You could still design around a lot of the problems with a jump to point of interest function with supercruise - but as many players rightfully point out, that kinda makes super cruise pointless.

The multiplayer focus very simply destroy's travel by making time dilation an impossible mechanic; forcing the use of super cruise. Moreover, players trading in the universe affect others trading in the universe; so having very low barrier between each instance of trade exacerbates the problem of homogenizing supply and demand and thus removing the ability to profit on arbitrage (the whole point of trading).


With all that been said, I have just thought of a reasonable design compromise between needing supercruise and jumping to points of interest. Essentially, allow players to 'save points of interests' into their travel computer/log/whatever. So the first time they visit a system, they'll jump to the star, but once they find various points of interest, they can in future just hyper jump to those points directly. Super cruise mechanics retained. But much of the tedium of commute travel is jumped away.

This isn't a perfect solution of course; it would raise the ire of the pseudo-realistic brigade; they'll cry that you jump to gravity wells! and points of interest keep moving! And it'd exacerbate the trade homogenization I was talking about.

But then if you can't compromise on any of the fluff, what you get is a game that is fundamentally... boring. Wait to super cruise. Wait for super cruise to load. Wait for super cruise to get you there. Wait to exit super cruise. Just keep waiting.
 

Hekantonkheries

Hekantonkheries
Fun fact, in all those scifi series, you know what the heroes are spending 90% of their time doing? talking to eachother because there are busy traveling those long distances, travel is simply part of the game, use it to double-check your route/cargo, maybe check a trade calculator check routes back to your origin system to see whats most profitable, theres plenty to fill the time with.
 

Zaptruder

Zaptruder
Hekantonkheries said:
Fun fact, in all those scifi series, you know what the heroes are spending 90% of their time doing? talking to eachother because there are busy traveling those long distances, travel is simply part of the game, use it to double-check your route/cargo, maybe check a trade calculator check routes back to your origin system to see whats most profitable, theres plenty to fill the time with.
Click to expand...

FaolGlas said:
Or read and write on the forums ;)
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Rizlag said:
Netflix ftw :D
Click to expand...

The biggest shame about this community is that... it recognizes the problem, but feels the need to defend the flaws anyway - as if it should be part and parcel of the experience.

I played about 8 hours yesterday... and I do have a triple monitor setup; and I was indeed using my other monitors to browse the web and watch videos. But the travel in this case is maximally annoying - requiring just enough attention to make it difficult to do other things, but repetitive to the point that it's very boring.

I'm sorry, but that's not how a game should be experienced.
 

InfiniteGremlins

InfiniteGremlins
No, I agree that travel could be better.

Some games actually build-in downtime to give the players time to talk to each other and fiddle with stuff. But that's actual, waiting-for-things-to-finish downtime. (Star Wars Galaxies has entire professions built around their downtime system.) Right now travel, particularly supercruise, is right on that borderline between needs-constant-attention and completely hands-off.

That's one reason why, by the way, the ability to look around in supercruise would be helpful, because it would create an engagement activity that the player could do while waiting for another process (supercruise travel) to get to a point that requires intervention.

Time dilation got around this (by giving you a button to skip to the next interesting bit) but had the problem that it was really hard to say what the next interesting bit actually was, so you'd end up stopping too soon or far too late. Too soon, and you got a really boring wait for the other ship to get in range; too late and you couldn't do anything about the planet you were about to smash into.

I don't know that points of interest are the best way to handle it, but they are an idea. Some kind of in-system jump to the distant stars at least might help.

Alternately, supercruise could get tweaked to have either more things to do while you're waiting or more things you need to handle while traveling: I'd lean towards more activities myself. External cameras, systemwide-comms, stuff like that.
 

Alric

A
In my opinion the problem isn't the travel mechanics, it's the amount of time spent travelling without getting involved in any real gameplay. I think there should be more opportunity to do stuff while you're in super cruise.. such as planning other legs of your journey, setting up trades, scanning for a target your'e searching for, maintaining your system etc.

I also think that gameplay which is 95%+ travel should be considered flawed and looked at again. Not to say it shouldn't be something you ever do - if you actually are just making a long journey for example. Or something that you could choose to do, such as if you just like running FedEx along the same routes. But it should never be the core gameplay. Even for trading. Travel->Spreadsheet->Travel doesn't cut it anymore. There should be more to think about. Hazards on the route, pirate activity, lucrative opportunities in a nearby area vs profits drying up here, trying to make better deals with a supplier or find a new buyer, and so on.
 

Dablin

Dablin
You think the travel time in this game is bad; you should try the Orbiter Space Simulator. There is no faster then light travel in that one.

Though saying that there is a time acceleration feature, but that can cause problems at times.
 

TheNut

T
Although I agree being able to jump straight to a planet or station would be much more desirable, in doing so it will break their interdiction game mechanic. I doubt FD will just shrug that off as wasted development hours. One could even argue that in supporting this, it will make the game more streamlined. Just hop from one zone to another to quickly trade and earn credits to purchase end-game ships. I personally don't have anything against that, but most games these days tend to support the grind ideology.

In my opinion, a PvP lobby server would help to eliminate some of the PvE burdens. This is similar to what Guild Wars 2 does. Provide a separate menu interface that lets players do PvP or world vs world. For those that don't want to play PvE, they can jump straight into the action and combat each other. No need to deal with travelling, gear grinding, death insurance, etc. Just hop in and play. Something like that would suite ED really well for the more casual audience.
 

Jake_blakeson

J
It is going to take a manned space ship 6 MONTHS to get to MARS. I think a few minutes of travel time in Elite is tolerable.
OP your one of those guys who races to the end of a game and then complains that there isn't enough content aren't you ?
Well 400 BILLION stars must frustrate the hell out of people who do that.
 

Armour

A
Supercruise should be the fuel-efficient method of intra-system travel, with the added benefit of fuel scooping, exploration, unidentified signal sources, and interdictions (if they can be classed as a benefit). However, it does take time, so intra-system hops could bypass such tedium. However, there should be risks and costs involved.

What kind of costs?

Opportunity costs:
  • exploring
  • unidentified signal sources,
  • interdiction(if that's a cost),
  • fuel scooping
Resource costs:
  • Fuel usage
  • Increase FSD repair frequency
What kind of risks?

Short hops could greatly increase FSD wear and tear, thus increasing the likelihood of misjumps.
Those jumping intra-system probably have reason to avoid interdiction, so they would be prime piracy targets and/or potentially seen as suspicious by police.

How could this add to the game in any way?

Navigation beacons would finally have a real use as endpoints for intra-system jumps. Using them would make it simple for police/pirates to detect and scan travellers whilst still well outside no fire zones, however.
Perhaps certain outposts don't want nav beacons nearby, so you still have to SC to such places.
Beacons might be occasionally towed elsewhere for nefarious purposes, or even jammed/spoofed. This would be a good way to organise ambushes and stop traffic in a system.
 
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ElleShaped

ElleShaped
Armour said:
Supercruise should be the fuel-efficient method of intra-system travel, with the added benefit of fuel scooping, exploration, unidentified signal sources, and interdictions (if they can be classed as a benefit). However, it does take time, so intra-system hops could bypass such tedium. However, there should be risks and costs involved.

What kind of costs?

Opportunity costs:
  • exploring
  • unidentified signal sources,
  • interdiction(if that's a cost),
  • fuel scooping
Resource costs:
  • Fuel usage
  • Increase FSD repair frequency
What kind of risks?

Short hops could greatly increase FSD wear and tear, thus increasing the likelihood of misjumps.
Those jumping intra-system probably have reason to avoid interdiction, so they would be prime piracy targets and/or potentially seen as suspicious by police.

How could this add to the game in any way?

Navigation beacons would finally have a real use as endpoints for intra-system jumps. Using them would make it simple for police/pirates to detect and scan travellers whilst still well outside no fire zones, however.
Perhaps certain outposts don't want nav beacons nearby, so you still have to SC to such places.
Beacons might be occasionally towed elsewhere for nefarious purposes, or even jammed/spoofed. This would be a good way to organise ambushes and stop traffic in a system.
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I really like all of those ideas. It fits the setting, the 'science', and the game balance very well. Bravo!
 

jpaulwilson1982

jpaulwilson1982
Jake_blakeson said:
It is going to take a manned space ship 6 MONTHS to get to MARS. I think a few minutes of travel time in Elite is tolerable.
OP your one of those guys who races to the end of a game and then complains that there isn't enough content aren't you ?
Well 400 BILLION stars must frustrate the hell out of people who do that.
Click to expand...

Really? I'm not the type of person to rush through a game, but we have 400 billion stars to explore with trillions of planets, moons, anomalies and God knows what else. Even with instantaneous travel from system to system, we'd never explore it all. No, not this century, anyways.
 

Tar Stone

Banned
Tar Stone
To be fair, the OP has a genuine complaint, although calling supercruise a 'chore' is overstating it.

Warning, Supercruise criticism incoming.


In the original Elite, the journey toward a station (single star and single planet remember) could either be uneventful or an epic struggle interspersed with drawn out battles. Oolite manages to capture this beautifully, with every ship you encounter moving with absolute sense and realism and with purpose.

Supercruise, whilst being an absolutely wonderful thing to behold as you swoop through an entire solar system with total freedom, does not have the same sense of danger. It doesn't make you sit up in your chair and prepare yourself for the push toward the station. It doesn't have a sense of the unknown, as surrounding ships are laid out for you on the scanner. Look at them zipping around.

I do love supercruise, I think it's a marvel and a triumph and I find it supremely satisfying.

Unfortunately the gameplay mechanics being introduced to liven it up are coming across as technical solutions and filler. That simple mechanic of the journey toward the station with absolutely no idea what lies in wait for you was and still is one of the best gameplay mechanics ever created by humans.



TLDR:
Supercruise has no sense of the unknown. Everything is right there on your scanner. That's why it attracts complaints of dullness.
 
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