Exactly! There are games for the 'Elite'. Always have been. Take any of the successful 4x games for example. You don't see masses playing them and then cry on the forums for the games being hard to get into or boring. ED just happened to hit right at the time SC's promotion was all the rage and got good publicity. This is a good thing of course but the game is very 'Elitist' in nature. Some games are, people just have to deal with it.
Elite: Dangerous Steam Discussions?!
- Thread starter WR3ND
- Start date
Exactly! There are games for the 'Elite'. Always have been. Take any of the successful 4x games for example. You don't see masses playing them and then cry on the forums for the games being hard to get into or boring. ED just happened to hit right at the time SC's promotion was all the rage and got good publicity. This is a good thing of course but the game is very 'Elitist' in nature. Some games are, people just have to deal with it.
I'd be happy if there was an option for a dramatically enhanced tutorial (I'm talking Left 4 Dead levels, here... Every thing has pop ups to tell you what to do and they keep popping up until you have demonstrated that you can do it). Because that would increase the volume of players who get into the game.
But, even if FD wanted to do that, I don't think they have the resources.
It's fantastic that so many new players are coming to the game. I hope they keep coming. And I guess I'll just have to keep telling them where the manual is
Just like when I used to buy a boxed game I'd never read the manual either, despite it being right there in front of me
I think the only time I've read the stuff that comes in the box was 'The Dark Wheel' with the original Elite, the Gazetteer and short stories that came with Frontier, and the manual for Baldur's Gate (because it had a spell list in it). I didn't even read the manual for my flight simulators, because they came with an adequate set of tutorials.
I have no problem with difficult games that have steep learning curves - in fact, they are some of the most rewarding games I've ever played. My issue here is that people seem to be revelling in the fact that ED is hard when it doesn't have to be. There's nothing here that experienced flight simmers would have an issue getting to grips with (and I'm speaking from experience on that) but good flight sims come with tutorials to get people up to speed. ED comes with a few short training missions (that aren't up to scratch, truth be told) and some YouTube videos (that help a bit but are nothing compared to a proper tutorial).
Yes, ED is hard. Yes, it takes time to get fully to grips with. That's no excuse for an inadequate tutorial.
The tutorials aren't great. As I've said in my post just above, other developers do it much better. But FD aren't the size of those developers.
This is why I push the manual so much. I learned everything about the game before I bought beta access. The tutorials were tough work, even then, because I had to refer to the unofficial manual several times to get some elements right.
But I'm not talking about people who have tried the tutorials and still need help.
At any rate , as inadequate as they may be, I don't think there is a developer out there who could design a tutorial that adequately explains all of this games rules fully.
A flight simulator can do this. Flight stimulators don't tend to have complex crime systems, for example.
That's where the manual comes into play.
It can be improved. I hope it is one day. But there's so much information about the game that anyone giving up after an hour or two, then posting on a forum that they're giving up (rather than just asking for help) probably isn't best suited to Elite.
It's not mainstream, it's not easy. I'd prefer it if everyone could play it. But I managed fine. And it's not the only game that demands outside help to learn it fully.
If you all want to spare the time, there are a TON of new commanders that came online this past week/weekend via Steam/Steamcommunity.com. Please do lend a helping hand to those over there that need assistance. Never know the next time that you'll see them in space...
Happy to
I've answered so many I've put an invoice in the post to FD
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There are all types of people and games out there, and from my experience, Elite: Dangerous is fairly easy to get into. Games like Guild Wars 2, for example, seem much more challenging to me. I've never really had a problem diving right in and learning the ropes of any game in particular though, and Elite: Dangerous hasn't been an exception.
On the other hand, there are surely those out there that don't want to bother having to invest the time and muscle memory to learn something new, who perhaps aren't more than passingly curious. Is that FD's fault and how much should they invest in educating these people? That isn't for me to answer. As pointed out earlier in this thread, we are free to step up and help out all the same, should we choose to. Likewise, people who are unsure of how to play the game are free to do a little research and ask questions. The game doesn't need to be handed to people on a silver platter, in my opinion.
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In the spirit of helping new players, I just posted this thread on the Steam forums:
https://steamcommunity.com/app/359320/discussions/0/485623406955626685/
I think you'll agree it's an important tip
It's already halfway down the first page. Might need help keeping it bumped haha.
https://steamcommunity.com/app/359320/discussions/0/485623406955626685/
I think you'll agree it's an important tip
It's already halfway down the first page. Might need help keeping it bumped haha.
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I think you'll agree it's an important tip
It's already halfway down the first page. Might need help keeping it bumped haha.
Yeah, it's a very worthwhile tip.
Definitely an "Elitist" post, OP. Not sure why Steam users are being looked at as some sort of lesser community. And frankly, many of the Steam posts are honest and tell things like they are in that this game lacks in many ways including the starting point with poor tutorials.
And many here seem to confuse hard with simply lacking. This game really isn't hard to play at all: press a couple of buttons and you're off; press a few more buttons and you're winning battles, etc. But it continues to provide very little or no helpful information about the gameplay or game elements. Been this way since day one. Obsfucation is really the best word that comes to mind for E D.
Would be great to see posts welcoming new players.
And many here seem to confuse hard with simply lacking. This game really isn't hard to play at all: press a couple of buttons and you're off; press a few more buttons and you're winning battles, etc. But it continues to provide very little or no helpful information about the gameplay or game elements. Been this way since day one. Obsfucation is really the best word that comes to mind for E D.
Would be great to see posts welcoming new players.
Yes, tiptoeing around people's inaccurate assumptions and sensitivities wasn't perhaps a high enough priority when I started this thread. My advice is to read all of my comments in this thread for further clarification before jumping to conclusions.
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I meant "muscle memory" in regard to flight controls. Some people have no idea how flight controls work and will have to get used to them as well as learning what control options there are and how to set them up. But yes, I agree that being able to play the game isn't anything to be elitist about. This thread isn't even about "making fun of noobs on Steam," though a lot of people seem to assume that it is. I hadn't payed attention to Steam sales and the influx of new users and it had nothing directly to do with me starting this thread.
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There is absolutely nothing elitist about ED in terms of gameplay. It's one of the easiest games to pick up. Flying the ships, the travel mechanics, docking you name it. Also making credits. This game is easy and don't get me started on the 'steep learning curve' everyone is going on about. Go play competitive starcarft or start dwarf fortress. Fly a warthog in DCS. Now that is a learning curve. The learning curve of ED compared to these games is laughable. You'll learn everything there is to learn about this game in two days tops, if you have an ounce of brains. Sure, you won't have tried everything, there are a million things you have not seen but mechanically, everything you can do can be learned in mere hours.
What is elitist about this game is it's ambitions. The 1:1 scale of everything and what it represents in the history of gaming. Understanding in what ways it is important, the mere significance of it, the work it entails, the why of the fact that it wasn't done before in a multiplayer game...
The reason for the seeming shallowness of the game, the lack of flashy, 'epic' content, the sense of nothing to do so you almost have to force yourself to play. The fact that not only you can write your own story but actually have to...
No, the game is not elitist to play. Far from it. It's as easy as can be. It is extremely elitist in spirit though. It doesn't care if you don't understand it. ED is the nerdy kid in middle school, reading the books no one his age likes. Getting flak all the time for correcting ignorant people. Not one of the popular kids yet, for sure, nor does it matter cause he is gonna grow up to lead the scientists and engineers who'll put the first man on Mars.
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In defense of WR3ND, it's an amusing scenario that he described. Sometimes humour isn't all nice and sometimes having a laugh at others' expense is natural.
However, the thread maintained a friendly tone and didn't go nasty. And WR3ND diverted our attention to the Steam forums where several of us have now posted to help new players and get involved in discussions to correct inaccuracies.
Also, you're correct about the game and its habit of obfuscation of mechanics. But I don't think I'm wrong in saying this is also one of its features and is at least partially intended.
There's a charm and intrigue to some games that don't disclose everything to the player in big, clear bold pop ups and constant exposition. Whilst some things could use more elaboration (the tutorials could be more descriptive), I think FD prefer the player to discover how to survive in the galaxy in their own way.
Some don't like that. Some prefer to be lead through their games in a neat straight line. And those players will undoubtedly find ED frustrating. But some think it's exciting. Many of us beta players miss those times of utter blind mystery.
That said, the user manual doesn't obfuscate at all. Last time I had a look, it was pretty descriptive. It's there to guide players who don't always like to work things out for themselves (like me).
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There is a very solid reason to not have very extensive tutorials in game but rely on a manual and leave the bulk of figuring out to the players. Immersion.
You already know how people complain about their immersion breaking, which is a very reasonable complaint. Too much tutorial, especially in game instructions break immersion like no other. I would hate to see a pop up on the HUD saying 'PRESS WHATEVER KEY TO ENGAGE FSD' in game as it does in the tutorials. Forcing tutorials on people by not letting them in the game without passing through them also does the same thing if you ask me. It screams 'THIS IS A GAME' in your face. Sure, it is a little confusing for the absolute beginner in video gaming but it keeps the game feeling a little less like a game which is actually a huge thing these days where almost every video game is created for mass consumption.
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A game that is very hard to learn but incredibly easy once you know how to play doesn't quite fit my definition of "a game for the elite"
Then why are there training missions? A proper tutorial is no different from those.
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Let me guess.
Your definition of 'a game for the elite' is 'really easy to learn the rules and to get playing but needs a lifetime to master'.
So, a low barrier for entry but a high skill ceiling.
Well, my definition, is a game with a relatively high entry barrier in terms of basic knowledge of the genre on top of a special fondness for it. An even higher barrier for the appreciation, like a very heavy but rewarding novel. An acquired taste, such as craft beer.
If I had my way, there would be no training missions either. You would either look for the manual yourself, read it, go online and do research it you don't deem the manual enough or start the game right away and be unable to even move, just like old times.
I do understand why this can't be though.
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