Elite / Frontier Elite Frontier 3 - re-release

[dcforeman]

Elite, for me was the most revolutionary game ever produced. thousands of systems, loads of galaxies, all populated with their own discriptions, market price, technology level. Since that day I've been a fan, when Elite II came out it was a dream come true! A realistic newtonian based game that really did make you feel like you were in space!

With baited breath, I think most of the Elite community looked forward to Elite III, Frontier II First Encounters. Only to be given the largest lump of beta code ever sold to customers. I know this wasn't entirely Frontiers fault, and there where intense legal proceedings later on. Since then we've had other companies jump on the space trader band waggon. Techwar, X, X2, and X3. Freelancer and others. But none of them have managed to catch that original Elite feeling of freedom. Being constrained by jump gates, having to spend ages navigating around complex networks. Eve Online being one of the latest of these.

However, Elite Frontier First Encounters, was never finished. We received patch after patch. I remember sitting by the post box waiting for frontiers floppy discs to come through the post. Hoping beyond hope that this new patch would turn it into the game we'd been promised.

But dispite all this, we've still got broken missions, I never got to complete the thargoid storyline, as well as other mission chains.

So with that quick history rehash, what I'd like to know. Is, if Fontier Developement would ever be:

A) willing to sanction projects like FFED3D as legal open source? The original code is over 15 years old now, so there's no reason that I can see for the company to hang onto it.

B) Could the community get the mission plans what should have made it into FFE had GAMETEK not jumped the gun.

Or

C) Would Frontier Development ever consider reworking FFE themselves, with an updated engine, some new professionally made models, and the intergrated storyline. I'm not expecting, or asking for a latest next gen project. Just something that will run on Windows Vista/ 7 without the illegal reverse engineering of copy protected source code. I'm sure all of us would love a legal option for running FFE on our Modern hardware and OS's.

Just to rehash, I'm not suggesting Frontier spend loads on a next gen direct X 10 or 11 engine, nor I am suggesting a complete rebuild of the game engine from the ground up. But I would love to see an open source project made out of FFE. I know I'd sign up to develop what is, arguably the best space game ever made.

I understand development isn't cheap, I understand it does require manpower and I sure as heck don't expect this to appear overnight. But there is a massive open source community out there, with support from Frontier, the company could bring back FFE. Giving us the game it promised us in 1995. Plus, of course Frontier would receive a certain amount of free development code it could use in other projects.

It would be nice to see the remaining Elite fans rewarded for more than 25 years developed fandom.

 

[dcforeman]

Tut tut, more than 40 view and only three votes. I can see this is just another one of those little communities without any real will. What a shame.

 

[DraQ]

Definitely make it legitimate open source. This would ensure longevity of the game, legitimize existing projects and draw a lot of attention to E4.

 

[Steve O B Have]

Tut tut, more than 40 view and only three votes. I can see this is just another one of those little communities without any real will. What a shame.

nice - that will get people voting... oh and welcome to the forum.

 

[dcforeman]

Hey I've been waiting for Elite 4, for 15 years. Forgive me if my paitence is getting limited! Best way to get a company to support the community is for that community to make some kind of drive for it. It's not really fair for the makers of JJFFE, glFFE, and FFED3D to have to do it knowing the are breaking that law in doing so, even if there is a loose understanding that frontier will turn a blind eye. I'm sure anyone reading this thread forked out cash for FFE 15 years ago. Yet we're all still here supporting Elite and Frontier. It's high time that loyalty was rewarded with something other than misleading magzine articles. I remember reading about Frontiers plans a number of years ago, for two different versions of Elite 4, one MMO and one Offline game. It was later revealed in 2006 that this idea had been abandoned in 2000, six years before! In 2007 we where told that we'd get Elite 4 development moving again after the outsider. Does anyone even know when outsiders going to be finished? At this point I'm pretty sure even Frontier don't have a clue. It's entirely possible outsider might never be released or might not be released for 5 years. In which case it's going to be 5 yaers for the "start" of Elite 4 developement, given that Outsider started developement 4 years ago, and if it gets released in 5 years time that's a potential 9 years before Elite 4 ever becomes a reality.

And in the mean time, the few people who are working hard to keep FFE alive, are still forced to do it, while including messages that their distro's of the game are illegal reverse engeered code.

Enoughs enough. It's about time David Braben made up his mind. It's about time he either lets the community have fun with what was one of the most buggy games in history. Let them turn it into what it should have been, and get acknowledged by Frontier for doing it. Or says outright, that no one is allowed to do this at all.

David Braben and Frontier have become little more than a company sitting on the fence, tweaking their noses saying "well you never know, the next time I have a bathroom break Elite 4 might finally get pushed out of my ****!"

I'm mostly convinced these days taht Elite 4 will never happen, and as Elite is Frontiers ultimate claim to gaming history, they don't want tobe honest and simply say "we're not going to do it!"

 

[Steve]

I voted for the open source option, mainly because I'm convinced Frontier Developments won't devote any time to the game. This isn't a bad thing BTW; it might speed things along where Elite IV is concerned

 

[dcforeman]

I doubt it would speed anything up. They've made it painfully clear that they won't even start thinking about developing Elite 4 until Outsider has been released.

But I agree with opensource. frontier doesn't have the will, but the community does.

 

[Geraldine]

I voted for open source too, however the Russian lads have been doing a great job with FFE3D, so in some respects (along with JFFE and GLFFE), Elite 3 is already becoming a community project. I do agree though, that if Frontier Developments would come out and add legitimacy to the project by making it open source, plus allowing access to the omitted features from the original release, they would be getting free publicity for Elite IV, which couldn't hurt and it would tide us fans over until the new Elite arrives. However, there may be other reasons why David Braben wont allow this, but I hope he will give it some consideration.

 

[deej]

Wouldn't this sort of thing potentially clash with any future Elite release?

 

[turwhitt]

Wouldn't this sort of thing potentially clash with any future Elite release?

If anything it would stoke interest and get people talking about it again, IMO.

 

[Callum Rowley]

It's entirely possible outsider might never be released or might not be released for 5 years. In which case it's going to be 5 yaers for the "start" of Elite 4 developement, given that Outsider started developement 4 years ago, and if it gets released in 5 years time that's a potential 9 years before Elite 4 ever becomes a reality.

Myself and the developers certainly hope it's not going to be five years till The Outsider is released! Though Elite IV will happen, re-releasing / revisiting the old Elite's still falls under the "we'll see" category. This isn't to say we'll never do anything with them - we just have to manage our developer resource around our current projects first and foremost.

 

[Darkman]

Tut tut, more than 40 view and only three votes. I can see this is just another one of those little communities without any real will. What a shame.

Err give it a chance, it's been what - 2 days since you made your post ?

We've discussed re-releases of First Encounters and the previous titles on here before and Liquilla said it could be possible in the future. We've discussed Xbox marketplace and PS3 network - even steam as distribution methods.

If you do a bit of searching before posting, you wouldn't have to make such an assumption about the community, would you ?

Also, I'm not being rude or anything but I find such remarks a bit offensive especially from someone who is new here and doesn't know us. Our community certainly does have the will and have been asking questions for years about these things. It's been done to death and all the discussions are here for your pleasure to catch up on - if you so choose.

Lastly, welcome to the forum and chill out .

 

[Darkman]

I voted for Frontier Shareware project.

My second preference would be open source. Here's why, Frontier have a very talented team of developers that can make a re-release really shine. Kudos to the Russian team for what they have done, their work is exemplary and ongoing.

However David Braben still has his notes from his work on FFE and can probably submit material for additional input that never made it in or tell his team what he wanted originally. They can finish the game how it was planned all those years ago along with more missions, additional storylines and updated gfx - but to the point that they are comfortable with in terms of development time and cost.

It's been discussed before about the previous games receiving touch ups but updating FFE could be the tester to see how well it does. Not just for PC but also for consoles if sales merit the extra investment. Downloads may be the better option than retail box.

Open source, well I do support this too but only if Frontier eventually decide they don't want to update the game/s and then this should be the backup option and allow other eager programmers out there to do the work.

Lastly, although we are fans of the games and keep interest going, Frontier/ David Braben - whatever, don't owe us anything like getting Elite IV rushed out before they are ready to. That wouldn't be such a good idea because it would result in feature cuts to the game ( outsider being the last technology tester remember ) and we'd all get something less than what is eventually planned. Sorry, but I would like to see what they can do with the time scale they have decided on.

A developer diary and blog have been discussed and we may even get some screen shots of the game when certain features are finalised.

I've waited all these years for something amazing, I can wait longer.

 

[dcforeman]

Lastly, although we are fans of the games and keep interest going, Frontier/ David Braben - whatever, don't owe us anything like getting Elite IV rushed out before they are ready to.

I'm not asking for Elite 4, I'm resigned to the fact that we're likely still a decade away from it. Elite 4 is nothing but a fantasy, and until it's been confirmed that it's definately in development. I shall treat it as nothing but a pipe dream.

Elite 3 on the other hand, was a complete farse, no one can argue that. Frontier has David Braben can do the right thing by it.

The only legal consideration I can think of, is that by releasing the code under the Elite Frontier name, they potentionally open the namesake to opensource as well. No one wants people creating Elite 4 Frontier as an Opensource project. But there is a simpe fix for that.

Just remove the Elite and Call it openFrontier. Open frontier can have version numbers of 1, 2, 3, 4 etc without any issues.

But the source code itself is over a decade out of date, so that's not really worth legally protecting anymore. The only bit they need to be careful of is the name. But as I say, call it openFrontier or openElite or whatever, at that issue isn't an issue anymore.

We've had JJFFE for years, we've got glFFE and FFED3D it's rather a shame they all have to boot up with the "illegal reverse engineered" notice every time it starts up. It means anyone who's actually paid for FFE in the past, still can't legally play it. I know there's an unoffical "we won't do anything" policy going on. But really, what would happen if Frontier ever got bought out or David Braben sold the Elite Frontier copyright? What would happen then? Would these people be open to legal action all of the suddan? They are doing what Frontier and David Braben are failing to do. They are keeping Elite Frontier alive in more than just name. If I were Braben I'd be thanking them, as much as we thank him and Bell for coming up with Elite in the first place.

 

[turwhitt]

Elite 3 on the other hand, was a complete farse, no one can argue that. .

I can.

You're a right piece of work, aren't you.

 

[Steve O B Have]

I can.

You're a right piece of work, aren't you.

Clearly a man of many well considered words... *cough*

He has clearly come here to endear himself to Frontier and the other members of the forum.

He does have some valid points (despite them already been fleshed out and discussed all ways possible) but his tact leaves a bit to be desired.

 

[Spacegamer]

Just having seen the hires res models ect being done for Oolite Iam voting for 3,if Elite 4 comes out 2012
then maybe Frontier can look at doing some thing with the old games for the 30 anniversary in 2014.ie put all the games on the outsider engine

 

[Sir.Tj]

I can.

You're a right piece of work, aren't you.

Clearly a man of many well considered words... *cough*

He has clearly come here to endear himself to Frontier and the other members of the forum.

He does have some valid points (despite them already been fleshed out and discussed all ways possible) but his tact leaves a bit to be desired.

......ahem

Elite 3 on the other hand, was a complete farse, no one can argue that. .

Yep I certainly can argue with that.


Firstly there was a poll last year on the most populer version of Elite/FE & FFE across the platforms and FFE Came 1st, the more recent poll it is still showing a strong following,

Secondly, I like it

Thirdly, although it has it's faults thats the charm of it for me, and with FFE3D making it more modern it's looking pretty good for a game of its age.


This is probably the most friendly forum on t'internet, were a nice bunch on here (honest)

 

[Steve]

Elite 3 on the other hand, was a complete farse, no one can argue that. .

It may have been a reference to the release of FFE, which was indeed a farse

 

[Sir.Tj]

It may have been a reference to the release of FFE, which was indeed a farse

He may have meant that Steve, it came across as the game itself to me, but then I am getting a bit old now, easily confused...