Read First Elite posts on Reddit and vote-canvassing

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

I'd really recommend reading the comments in full. Here's a quote from another mod:



I take Piemonkey at his word, which means accepting a level of sophistication we simply aren't capable of. If we were fooled during the kickstarter by some guy saying reddit was just another site trading votes for views, how would we have suddenly got better at cheating than everyone else in the world? Without an existing presence on reddit, I don't think it would help for me to go over there making noise. But it sounds like there is a process for banning redditors they know to be sullying ED's good name, so surely the next logical step is to politely ask them to do so?

Problem is that there's serious lack of grown up communication within /r/Games mod team. These are really wild claims, and I don't know if it's emotional hyperbole (which can be understandable if they are angry at someone trying to game the system), or they really think that way? If second, then I really want to question this. We don't have direct evidence, but judging by what I know following ED case on reddit, there's none for massive VM from ED community or someone spreading word of ED. There are *five* people doing any communication on ED outside /r/EliteDangerous and as far as I know none of them are so full of themselves to do such thing as VM, as they are well aware about our history on /r/Games. I personally can't even do anything, as I was shadowbanned year ago, and can't upvote/can't comment/etc.

But I full heartedly agree that let's leave this in the past. We should move past that and get remove this obstacle whatever it is. If it's someone trolling and spamming, we must get him/her blocked or reason with person. If it's someone outside community...well...then it will be harder.

I see Valkyrie has asked to block IPs so posts don't get removed due of honest voting - I guess that would be best solution if someone could make that happen. Someone should make a case to reddit.com admins.

 

[crabjam]

I don't get why conspiracy theories seem to pop up so often on these forums. Regular human stupidity is much more believable, and a little easier to address.

Nice judgement of possibly well intentioned people who happened to not read the fine print.

 

[Darren Grey]

Nice judgement of possibly well intentioned people who happened to not read the fine print.

Well, maybe ignorance rather than stupidity

 

[crabjam]

Well, maybe ignorance rather than stupidity

That's better.

 

[Cosmos]

If reddit is behaving in a way that is unfairly and unreasonably damaging Frontiers or EDs reputation.. then I suggest its time to call in the lawyers. I am not over reacting - this needs to be prosectuted ASAP and this needs nipping in the bud.

Its hard to believe people from this community are going out on mass to abuse the voting system in reddit, in fact it is utterly ridiculous. I've barely ever visited the site but I understand its popular, or rather perceived to be.

There is a larger issue I think is going untalked about and that is the enivitable SC ED collision. There are people who are invested heavily on one side and another. There are many more largely invested in SC and who see ED as a threat. I constantly hear about the community problems SC has and its not too far a jump of the imagination to understand that its perhaps a certain group of those could be involved.

Equally, I think this percieved friendship between CR and DB is going to be short lived. The games are going to be in competition with one another and when it comes to operating a business I dont see how that fact can foster a chummy relationship.

When it comes to reddit, I think that site is used on the whole by youngsters.. Its a cause for concern because its that fickle sort of group, that are habitual users of the site, can have a detrimental effect upon a target.

 

[Darren Grey]

I think we should do away with these youngsters! We clearly cannot have a sustainable society with their fickle and fanciful ways...

 

[Cosmos]

I think we should do away with these youngsters! We clearly cannot have a sustainable society with their fickle and fanciful ways...

hehe..

uh yeah.. I think that came out a bit incorrectly. I am not here to demonise youths, I was one myself for a time, but I think its fair to say that within the gaming community a system of group think occurs that when combined in an uniformed, or with inexperience, it can result negatively if allowed to go unchallenged. I have seen entire gaming communities, and games themselves fall prey to this.

If this is ever in question, its worth checking out how many people watch the Athenewins channel on youtube.

 

[Darren Grey]

I am not here to demonise youths, I was one myself for a time, but I think its fair to say that within the gaming community a system of group think occurs that when combined in an uniformed, or with inexperience, it can result negatively if allowed to go unchallenged. I have seen entire gaming communities, and games themselves fall prey to this.

I've seen it happening here! Especially when SC or young people are mentioned

 

[Josh Atack]

If reddit is behaving in a way that is unfairly and unreasonably damaging Frontiers or EDs reputation.. then I suggest its time to call in the lawyers. I am not over reacting - this needs to be prosectuted ASAP and this needs nipping in the bud.

Its hard to believe people from this community are going out on mass to abuse the voting system in reddit, in fact it is utterly ridiculous. I've barely ever visited the site but I understand its popular, or rather perceived to be.

There is a larger issue I think is going untalked about and that is the enivitable SC ED collision. There are people who are invested heavily on one side and another. There are many more largely invested in SC and who see ED as a threat. I constantly hear about the community problems SC has and its not too far a jump of the imagination to understand that its perhaps a certain group of those could be involved.

Equally, I think this percieved friendship between CR and DB is going to be short lived. The games are going to be in competition with one another and when it comes to operating a business I dont see how that fact can foster a chummy relationship.

When it comes to reddit, I think that site is used on the whole by youngsters.. Its a cause for concern because its that fickle sort of group, that are habitual users of the site, can have a detrimental effect upon a target.

Please don't assume one sub reddit is a reflection of the entire site, people opt in and out of the reddits they find interesting, much like a news reader.

As stated before I find the level of discourse in the subreddits I follow to be generally very high.

But as a fickle youngster what do I know

 

[Ian Doncaster]

If reddit is behaving in a way that is unfairly and unreasonably damaging Frontiers or EDs reputation.. then I suggest its time to call in the lawyers.

Not that I'm a lawyer, but I can't see any way that legal action could possibly improve the situation. I can't even see who would be suing who for what, or how it would help even if they won.

I've barely ever visited the site but I understand its popular, or rather perceived to be.

It's fairly popular with a relatively narrow demographic (young men, especially from the US) and much less so otherwise.

It's certainly not worth worrying whether one sub-forum on that site might or might not allow the posting of ED-related materials. If they don't want to, they don't want to.

 

[Caribou]

I think we should do away with these youngsters! We clearly cannot have a sustainable society with their fickle and fanciful ways...

lol, I was surprised this conversation was continuing tbh....

hehe..

uh yeah.. I think that came out a bit incorrectly. I am not here to demonise youths,

Sorry Cosmos - you mispelt that it's 'Yout' innit

I've seen it happening here! Especially when SC or young people are mentioned

Slightly serious note : Yes I think we (Me included) as a group do not give enough credit to 'dem Youts' for having their own thoughts and opinions. I was recently taken aback by the (mature) response of my 14 year old to the questions being discussed here. We don't see quite eye to eye on the topics but he's definitely thought about it...

But as a fickle youngster what do I know

You realize we 40 year olds still think of our selves in these terms I think it's a state of mind to be 'old'

 

[Allen Stroud]

Okay have read this thread and all the links.

My take on this is that this particular subreddit noticed a transgression early on, then put tabs on some suspect accounts. Whenever a subsequent post is upvoted by these accounts, they act on it. This is the reason the Elite Dangerous topics are targeted rather than other topics (like SC).

Its a perpetual feedback loop. The Moderators believe the Elite Dangerous topics are more and more guilty as they consistently and myopically monitor these specific accounts, ignoring others because they know these are guilty from the first instance and still only on the subreddit to vote up Elite Dangerous topics.

I note when asked how many votes trigger a VM investigation, they couldn't give a number. I would also suggest they don't actually have data driving their subsequent interventions, just a continual check and monitoring of these accounts. It could be as few as five, and these could be run by one person.

A solution would be to have those accounts removed, obviously not something subreddit moderators can do, so it would have to go to the site admins. If the forum community offered to assist with the obvious backlash this would cause, you might solve the problem.

 

[Cosmos]

But as a fickle youngster what do I know

Before I get myself into anymore trouble.. I think I am going to try to keep a low profile, at least for the rest of the day.. I keep getting noticed for all the wrong reasons

 

[Andrew_C]

From what I understand from reading the linked threads, if your first activity on r/games is posting about Elite: Dangerous, or upvoting a thread about it, that is automatically viewed as suspicious (even if you are active elsewhere on Reddit), because of the behavior of some a year ago. IMHO, that is stupid and paranoid.

Reddit is a strange place, some parts of it you can have informative discussions about stuff, others are just good places to hang out and chat, others are incredibly cliquey for no reason, and some bits are hives of scum and villainy.

 

[Shishakli]

[*]Respect that Reddit is a community site

This is the frustrating part of this whole thing to me. If I didn't already know about Elite: Dangerous, reddit would be the only way I would find out.

I would be sorely ed if I found out I was on the other side of this situation and it was being actively kept from me.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

This is the frustrating part of this whole thing to me. If I didn't already know about Elite: Dangerous, reddit would be the only way I would find out.

I would be sorely ed if I found out I was on the other side of this situation and it was being actively kept from me.

Well, and that's essentially a problem. Current rules subjectively enforced by current /r/Games mods doesn't allow anything who haven't got PR footing in other media channels to be shown. In result, if there's genuinely interesting stuff going on, but other media ignores it (like in case of ED), mods just enforces this information blockade.

Only way to break this is someone swallowing pride, going into cell agent role on /r/Games, comment on other games, and when right time comes, put message out there. Weird, strange, even paradoxal - but that's how this reddit game is played.

 

[MortVader]

I have no idea what reddit is. Maybe that's a good thing.
I don't think a game developer should worry about what is going on in another website. It implies a lack of confidence in the product.

Same here. I am completely in the dark about that.. and don't have a problem with that

FD should not get involved. I agree completely!