Elite & Star Citizen Control / Flight Model

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Foyle

Foyle
E;D and SC

I became aware of both games at around the same time, crowd funding was a new concept to me.

I LOVED elite in the olden days, along with X-Wing / Tie Fighter. I think I also played Wing Commander but can't really remember it.

I backed SC, then I pledged more and more until I was almost £300 in. Elite only got a £40 pledge, which I recently bumped up to get PB access. (I am claiming temporary insanity on throwing £300 at any game, that and exceptional marketing. ooh look, shiny)

I am LOVING the premium beta - It crashes my system, I have lost save games for no reason and lost dozens of hours of effort to a glitch. but the more I play it the more I love it, and that is because of how the ship feels.

After half a day downloading SC Arena Commander and getting it to work, I managed to play and I instantly hated it - It feels like an arcade game.

The main difference between the two appears to be that Elite favours roll, and SC favours yaw.

What amazes me is how many people love the Star Citizen method, and I wondered if they would still feel the same way if they tried Elite.

So, has anyone else here played both games and what is your take on it ?
 

ZeeWolf

ZeeWolf
My main issue Arena Commander is not the flight model per say, but the control and lack of motion feedback. One of the developers was in the forum a couple of days ago and said the control scheme was far from ready and even he couldn't control it - which was a huge relief.

I think it's far too early to do any kind of comparison. Nothing wrong with a Yaw based control, per say, it makes perfect sense in Space. Frontier just want to do something that feels different for their game.
 

ParaB

ParaB
I have played both and prefer ED's flight model by far. IMO the design decision to favour pitch and roll over yaw and implement best manoeuvrability at medium speeds in Elite was a very good idea since it prevents the "turrets in space" play style that gets even worse with auto-aim weapons. IMO the basic idea of the kind of space dogfights most of us expect from a space sim is to maneuver into a position where you can fire on the enemy without him being able to fire on you. ED does that very good, SC IMO not.


That said, I'm pretty sure SC's FMs and control schemes will improve over time but right now I have very little interest of playing the DFM module.
 

prasak

prasak
I am a PC game, which allows no modification of controlls, but I have x-box controller template here for you.

I put it away for few days, but later I have found a thread on forums, how to setup controlls via config files so I played with it for few hours and now it works with my stick, but its still far from enjoyable for me.
 

Hootmon

Hootmon
Favoring Pitch and Roll is seeming more natural to me by the day. It makes it feel like the main engines are at the back, which they are.

ETA: Roll isnt Yaw. Roll alone wont 'turn' you, but Roll and Pitch will.
 
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Bobbydylan

Bobbydylan
I totally 100% agree with you. And I'm into SC about twice what you are.

I originally disliked the Elite model. Ships felt heavier than I was expecting (they are quite massive) and I wasn't a fan of the yaw nerff. But after playing for a while, I've really changed my tune. Even in the Alpha, when I had a lot more credits than I needed, I kept dog-fighting cos it was lots of fun.

In Star Citizen, I feel that the game is more of a "point and click" adventure. Move mouse to edge of screen.
Click on ship.
Repeat.

In Elite if feel have to weight up my attack. Decide if I going in cold or all lazers burning. Aline my ship to the enemy trajectory, plan counter moves to maximise guns-on-target, balance energy to maximize performance.....
It like a chess game of spaceship tactics.

I'll end this little triad by saying I fully expect them to work on the current issues, and progress as the game advances.
 

Foyle

Foyle
I struggled when I first got Elite, but I never once thought it was because of poor implementation, just my own poor skills.

Once I got the xbox controller up and running it was an absolute revelation, I am now in control of my ship and it responds as it should - I only use yaw occasionally to correct my landing approach.

After such a long wait for SC it was a massive disappointment, and I'm now wishing I could cash out and just keep a basic pledge
 

Foyle

Foyle
Bobbydylan said:
Ships felt heavier
Click to expand...

This, even my little sidewinder feels like it has substantial mass and inertia. When I cut engines it takes a while to stop.


I didn't realise how much I reviled a yaw-based approach until I played AC, felt like Nintendo starfox. It was such a turn off and such polar opposite to what I was expecting, I don't know if I'll ever get on with it
 

Erimus Kamzel

Erimus Kamzel
I think CiG are open to changing the flight model of SC if enough people dislike its current direction, as mentioned in this dev post.

My final point, we have a powerful system that can support as much or as little realism as we choose to support. Ultimately it's going to be about what the most backers like. We will never make everyone happy, as much as we'd like to. But we definitely will try to make this game what the majority want it to be. We have the systems in place to make Arena Commander a marriage of Kerbal with World of Tanks if that's what the community wants. On the other hand, we could make it Arcade Commander, though that would have saved a lot of us a ton of time and effort. Where we land in that spectrum will depend on the fun factor, because ultimately it is a game, not just a space simulation. And that's why it's great that we have an early prototype in the hands of real players, because it's your definition of fun that matters most.
Click to expand...

I've watched a ton of AC videos and it does look very arcadey at the moment. A $42m investment and it boils down to a point and click game? :( Luckily its early days yet and I guess the games' direction at this point is in the hands of the most vocal backers, they seem to dislike the current model- or at least that's the impression I'm getting from the forums. So there's still hope :)
 

Foyle

Foyle
Erimus said:
I think CiG are open to changing the flight model of SC if enough people dislike its current direction, as mentioned in this dev post.

I've watched a ton of AC videos and it does look very arcadey at the moment. A $42m investment and it boils down to a point and click game? :( Luckily its early days yet and I guess the games' direction at this point is in the hands of the most vocal backers, they seem to dislike the current model- or at least that's the impression I'm getting from the forums. So there's still hope :)
Click to expand...

From what I can tell, there have been a load of threads pointing out these very issues but every single one of them is beaten to the ground by a mob of 'its fine, yaw is the best!' posters. also the results of polls suggest that most people are happy with yaw based.

My goodness, can you imagine the reaction if I posted this heresy over there
 

Bobbydylan

Bobbydylan
Foyle said:
From what I can tell, there have been a load of threads pointing out these very issues but every single one of them is beaten to the ground by a mob of 'its fine, yaw is the best!' posters. also the results of polls suggest that most people are happy with yaw based.

My goodness, can you imagine the reaction if I posted this heresy over there
Click to expand...

I don't think that the model needs to be the same as we have in Elite, but what they have now is crap. Hell, the flight model in Diaspora is yaw-friendly and I find that loads of fun to play.
 

PhanttoM

PhanttoM
I wasn't so much disappointed by the flight model, but more about the lack of 6DOF controls and more importantly the numerical values of the 'realistic simulation'.

The thing about video games and computer simulations, is that you can punch in any number for the thruster strength, and then it will calculate that accurately - But what is a "realistic" main, or maneuvering thruster in the 30th century?
I'm sure there's a scientific upper limit to what a thruster can spit out, but that doesn't mean you should type in the highest possible number!

My point being, I find the turn rates WAY too fast.
 

alejo

alejo
I agree with you.
Also we should consider is the first attempt at flight model for SC, so it will certanly change and be upgraded.
I have both, but in the meantime I just play ED.
 
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