Commanders, Imperial, Federal, and Alliance! If you haven't been living under a rock, you'll notice that tensions between the Federation and the Empire are rising at an alarming rate. Starting with the creation of a new branch of the Federal Navy (along with a few new capital ships) the Empire responded in kind with a build-up of arms. Now we have Jacob Harris accusing the Empire of destroying Starship One (for which he says he has proof). Whether these rumors are true or not, we need to avoid a possible conflict, or even a war, between us. I say this because to date, we have stolen, shot at and blown up, and even eaten alien technology such as the meta alloys and the unknown artifacts. If the race that I think these belong to (Thargoids) shows up again and we're fighting each other, we won't stand a chance. We'll fall due to fragmentation! So please, in the name of humanity, let us attempt to cease hostilities before it is too late!
Emergency Appeal for Unity!
- Thread starter HereticPilot101
- Start date
Do you have any tangible suggestions to that effect?
Unity schmunity!
The arms race between the superpowers is working out very nicely for my wallet, thank you.
The arms race between the superpowers is working out very nicely for my wallet, thank you.
I'm not entirely certain what good a call for unity does.
If FD wants to pen a story about tension or even war between the Empire and the Federation, it would need to have significant in-your-face consequences for the community (equipment shortages, blockaded systems, crappy prices, increased engagement from enemy factions, ect.) or else it'll just just that: a story that people skim on Gal-Net as they're fuel scooping. And if FD did decide to push a war on everyone, think of the epic whining we would see on the forums at how inconvenient it is for people's Robigo runs and such!
From a lore perspective, the Empire assassinating Halsey makes no sense either. It was pretty clear that she was a weak head of state. If you're in a cold war-type situation, why would you off a weak enemy leader who brought divisiveness and hard times for your rival? She was replaced by Hudson, who- though he seems like an absolute warmongering - at least cannot be called weak. Plus, the accusation came from what sounded like the Ted Cruz of the Federation- so who knows how credible it even is? Bottom line: it was in the interest of the Empire that Halsey stay in power.
That being said, if the Empire and Feds do go to war, you'll find me helping the Empire.
One covert assassination at a time.
And not for free
If FD wants to pen a story about tension or even war between the Empire and the Federation, it would need to have significant in-your-face consequences for the community (equipment shortages, blockaded systems, crappy prices, increased engagement from enemy factions, ect.) or else it'll just just that: a story that people skim on Gal-Net as they're fuel scooping. And if FD did decide to push a war on everyone, think of the epic whining we would see on the forums at how inconvenient it is for people's Robigo runs and such!
From a lore perspective, the Empire assassinating Halsey makes no sense either. It was pretty clear that she was a weak head of state. If you're in a cold war-type situation, why would you off a weak enemy leader who brought divisiveness and hard times for your rival? She was replaced by Hudson, who- though he seems like an absolute warmongering - at least cannot be called weak. Plus, the accusation came from what sounded like the Ted Cruz of the Federation- so who knows how credible it even is? Bottom line: it was in the interest of the Empire that Halsey stay in power.
That being said, if the Empire and Feds do go to war, you'll find me helping the Empire.
One covert assassination at a time.
And not for free
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I'm not even sure how the battle lines would work in such a war. The borders between the empire, fed, and alliance are pretty hazy. Going through the galaxy view based on allegiance looks like a diagram of a fruitcake.
I agree with Lehman that an all out war would need to have a lot of tangible in world effects, especially dramatic changes to the BGS at the borders. Lots of missions to go kill some fed Navy ships and lots of blockade runs.
I would like to see more proactive activity on the major factions side. It makes sense for the alliance but lore wise I don't understand why the fed and empire tolerate so many independent systems in their space like holes in Swiss cheese.
I shouldn't have skipped lunch. All my analogies are food based today.
I agree with Lehman that an all out war would need to have a lot of tangible in world effects, especially dramatic changes to the BGS at the borders. Lots of missions to go kill some fed Navy ships and lots of blockade runs.
I would like to see more proactive activity on the major factions side. It makes sense for the alliance but lore wise I don't understand why the fed and empire tolerate so many independent systems in their space like holes in Swiss cheese.
I shouldn't have skipped lunch. All my analogies are food based today.
The "war" would probably concentrate around specific coreworlds and strategic points/routes. Not only would a massive offensive with such unclear borders backfire a lot, the logistics and supply lines involved would be waaaay to massive to handle.
Also both factions, especially the Empire with their current cold war against Archon Delaine, can't afford to go allout against each other. Another point is the handling of conquered systems/stations/planets. They require massive garnisons and troops to secure them, which would put even more stress on the logistics and the combat troops. Stuff like: You can just ignore the system and jump further on, won't work since the inevitable resistors in such occupied systems are without doubt going to target the supply lines leading through the system to hinder the advancing main force.
If you compare the costs and benefits of a large scale interstellar war, you'll soon see that it's not going to pay out.
The thing that's possible is a intensification of the cold war between federation and empire, probably with some major clashes in border systems, but without serious attempts to advance into the enemy territory.
How this affects the economy is difficult to predict ... the imports/exports between will shift to the alliance and both factions are going to invest into their military which could boost certain parts of the economy like the heavy and the weapons industry while other parts like tourism and general trade into border systems will suffer.
Good for us? Bad for us? Dunno
Some will make profit, mostly those who have no scruples (looking at you Marra xD).
Some will live.
Some will die (Mostly filthy Imp scum hopefully, looking at you MATTY! xD).
Both will make a lot of saber-rattling and in the end they're going to see that they can't afford a real war.
Also both factions, especially the Empire with their current cold war against Archon Delaine, can't afford to go allout against each other. Another point is the handling of conquered systems/stations/planets. They require massive garnisons and troops to secure them, which would put even more stress on the logistics and the combat troops. Stuff like: You can just ignore the system and jump further on, won't work since the inevitable resistors in such occupied systems are without doubt going to target the supply lines leading through the system to hinder the advancing main force.
If you compare the costs and benefits of a large scale interstellar war, you'll soon see that it's not going to pay out.
The thing that's possible is a intensification of the cold war between federation and empire, probably with some major clashes in border systems, but without serious attempts to advance into the enemy territory.
How this affects the economy is difficult to predict ... the imports/exports between will shift to the alliance and both factions are going to invest into their military which could boost certain parts of the economy like the heavy and the weapons industry while other parts like tourism and general trade into border systems will suffer.
Good for us? Bad for us? Dunno
Some will make profit, mostly those who have no scruples (looking at you Marra xD).
Some will live.
Some will die (Mostly filthy Imp scum hopefully, looking at you MATTY! xD).
Both will make a lot of saber-rattling and in the end they're going to see that they can't afford a real war.
Good for us? Bad for us? Dunno
Some will make profit, mostly those who have no scruples (looking at you Marra xD).
Some will live.
Some will die (Mostly filthy Imp scum hopefully, looking at you MATTY! xD).
A war would between the Feds and the Imps would be Marra's dream come true!
And this Imp scum has a pair of Hammers ready to go for any Corvette-flying Feds that feel like trash talking!
It would go something like this:
[video=youtube;SvKY8FJY0Qk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SvKY8FJY0Qk[/video]
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A war would between the Feds and the Imps would be Marra's dream come true!
And this Imp scum has a pair of Hammers ready to go for any Corvette-flying Feds that feel like trash talking!
It would go something like this:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=otCpCn0l4Wo
Big words for an Imp Scum with a small ... ship. (I'm so sorry, I just had to xD)
It's not the size of the ship, darlin'- it's how you mount the hardpoints and manage the power flow!
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Well, the Federation might win a few victories. After all...
[video=youtube;bfZ1EUHdoWk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfZ1EUHdoWk[/video]
[video=youtube;bfZ1EUHdoWk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfZ1EUHdoWk[/video]
I knew there was a good reason for me to be looking for earth likes out in the void. If worst comes to worst, I know of a few spots the survivors can start rebuilding civilisation. If I had the tools I would already be making a start...
I the federation and empire do go to war, only the opportunists will be able to take full advantage.
And I'll be right there with Opportunity, boosting and jumping thru the lines and still making a profit. Marra has the right of it. Let the big dumb s bash their thick skulls against each other and grunt about the bigger ego; I'll be padding my pocketbook and thumbing my nose at your "law and order" and "gunboat diplomacy".
And I'll be right there with Opportunity, boosting and jumping thru the lines and still making a profit. Marra has the right of it. Let the big dumb s bash their thick skulls against each other and grunt about the bigger ego; I'll be padding my pocketbook and thumbing my nose at your "law and order" and "gunboat diplomacy".
But let's talk about what a war would look like from a tactical perspective. As far as I know from the lore, there hasn't really been a 'real' war in interstellar space, things have been in a cold war for centuries. That creates some interesting issues because there isn't a track record for what works when major powers actually throw their weight around. This thread is now about what a war like this would look like.
The thing that would control combat is how FSD drives works. Due to FSD technology, there is no definable fronts. This makes taking and holding territory very difficult, but disrupting enemy supplies and destroying material very easy. Most combat would be analogous to airstrikes and piracy.
“Space Strike”
When you can hop from system to system in seconds, there is no way to set up a sustained wall of resistance. All you can do is react. If all your defenses are on the border systems they will be essentially useless. An enemy fleet could warp in and out in 30 seconds, heading towards some target. the defending fleet doesn't have enough time to interdict anyone from this first contact, and are now stuck being forced to scan the wakes to figure out where this fleet is heading. That extra step makes it extremely hard to catch up unless you have organized advanced scouts warping around to various systems to keep track.
This would only change once a fleet has to stop to scoop fuel, giving defending fleets a chance to catch up and start interdicting ships. Intelligent commanders could arrange for fuel support ships to advance ahead of a fleet and provide limpet supplies to keep things moving faster, or at least to allow resupply to take place in normal space where it would be just a bit harder for defending forces to keep track of your presence. Even more intelligent commanders would send a fleet outside the bubble to carefully maneuver around to find the shortest distance to their target.
The upshot of all this is it would be relatively easy to make deep targeted strikes into enemy territory. Jump in, destroy or severely damage a space station, and then head back home. To counter this, you would need to have dedicated defenses at every star system in anticipation of such attacks. You could have as much as 80% of your fleet set up as dedicated defenders in these systems, or severely leverage local militias.
“Piracy”
A more accurate analogy may be ‘unrestricted submarine warfare’ but the effect is like piracy just without caring to actually steal anything. If a dedicated fleet can dash into the interior of enemy space easily, then multiple wings of ships could spread all over enemy space and start blowing up any targets of opportunity, destroying trading vessels and the like. It’s another example of how it’s much easier to damage the enemy’s economy than to take the enemy’s territory.
All that being said, I think the Federation and Empire would totally try to take territory. This is where distance becomes much more important. The supplies needed for an army that would be needed to take over and occupy a space station are huge, and imagine trying to conquer a planet. This means a need for constant resupplies of food and other material. In order to maintain supply lines you need space superiority. If the defenders manage to blockade the space station, your soldiers will be having a bad time. Then...it becomes a question of smugglers. We could see a fun new smuggling option. When a system is blockaded, you may be attacked just for being in the system, no matter what you have in your cargo hold.
The thing that would control combat is how FSD drives works. Due to FSD technology, there is no definable fronts. This makes taking and holding territory very difficult, but disrupting enemy supplies and destroying material very easy. Most combat would be analogous to airstrikes and piracy.
“Space Strike”
When you can hop from system to system in seconds, there is no way to set up a sustained wall of resistance. All you can do is react. If all your defenses are on the border systems they will be essentially useless. An enemy fleet could warp in and out in 30 seconds, heading towards some target. the defending fleet doesn't have enough time to interdict anyone from this first contact, and are now stuck being forced to scan the wakes to figure out where this fleet is heading. That extra step makes it extremely hard to catch up unless you have organized advanced scouts warping around to various systems to keep track.
This would only change once a fleet has to stop to scoop fuel, giving defending fleets a chance to catch up and start interdicting ships. Intelligent commanders could arrange for fuel support ships to advance ahead of a fleet and provide limpet supplies to keep things moving faster, or at least to allow resupply to take place in normal space where it would be just a bit harder for defending forces to keep track of your presence. Even more intelligent commanders would send a fleet outside the bubble to carefully maneuver around to find the shortest distance to their target.
The upshot of all this is it would be relatively easy to make deep targeted strikes into enemy territory. Jump in, destroy or severely damage a space station, and then head back home. To counter this, you would need to have dedicated defenses at every star system in anticipation of such attacks. You could have as much as 80% of your fleet set up as dedicated defenders in these systems, or severely leverage local militias.
“Piracy”
A more accurate analogy may be ‘unrestricted submarine warfare’ but the effect is like piracy just without caring to actually steal anything. If a dedicated fleet can dash into the interior of enemy space easily, then multiple wings of ships could spread all over enemy space and start blowing up any targets of opportunity, destroying trading vessels and the like. It’s another example of how it’s much easier to damage the enemy’s economy than to take the enemy’s territory.
All that being said, I think the Federation and Empire would totally try to take territory. This is where distance becomes much more important. The supplies needed for an army that would be needed to take over and occupy a space station are huge, and imagine trying to conquer a planet. This means a need for constant resupplies of food and other material. In order to maintain supply lines you need space superiority. If the defenders manage to blockade the space station, your soldiers will be having a bad time. Then...it becomes a question of smugglers. We could see a fun new smuggling option. When a system is blockaded, you may be attacked just for being in the system, no matter what you have in your cargo hold.
My father always said "War is good for business" Marra's not the only one who would love a good war between the major factions. Guns gotta get shipped by somebody.
(If I'm still alive by the time a war kicks off... )
(If I'm still alive by the time a war kicks off...
)
Personally I don't care about the Federation or Empire. If anything the buildup of their war machines might be wise considering what is lurking out in the dark reaches of space.
I'm reminded of Fred Saberhagen's Berserker series of science fiction novels. In a way it is as if humanity has carried the burden of warfare for so far just in case it may be needed to oppose such a horrifying foe as the one that comes to annihilate all in its path.
Hopefully things time such that just before they get going attacking each other the real threat will arrive. Then they'll know where to aim.
I personally believe that's the kind of existential threat that will face us in the future.
I'm reminded of Fred Saberhagen's Berserker series of science fiction novels. In a way it is as if humanity has carried the burden of warfare for so far just in case it may be needed to oppose such a horrifying foe as the one that comes to annihilate all in its path.
Hopefully things time such that just before they get going attacking each other the real threat will arrive. Then they'll know where to aim.
I personally believe that's the kind of existential threat that will face us in the future.
