Endgame...what?

[Viscera]

I have seen the argument made that Fleet Carriers are endgame, hence their huge cost.

So, are you saying once you have done the long exciting months of button push to mine all those credits for a fleet carrier, You are going to turn off elite and play no more.

Is this not what endgame means?

Something you get at the end of the game.

Perhaps a new term, and another argument for the price should be thought of, as this one clearly does not fit unless that really is the whole point of elite.

Maybe FD should rewrite their advert if it is so...

ELITE Dangerous. Blaze a trail shooting rocks until you can buy a fleet carrier, then give up.

At least then any upkeep costs will be irrelevent, so perhaps it is the right way to play afterall.

Or...

Its a sandpit game... There is no endgame... Hmmmm! Cant be true, or that argument for FC prices goes rigbt out the window.

 

[thistle]

What

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

I think endgame in Elite is when you no longer need to do the busywork and nickel and dime grindbits. You're done with that and can finally enjoy the game for what it is.

 

[Cmdr DRAGONHEART]

Y mast there be an end game in elite ?

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

Endgame is a generic MMO term used when you have progressed so far, there's nothing else to do. Most MMO's concentrate on raids, PVP or emergent role playing in order to fill this gap and keep people playing, even though their characters are maxed out.

Elite has two features like this (maybe three if you include the thargoid stuff when it happens);-
1. BGS manipulation, where you and like minded individuals try and flip systems in support of a single faction you like.
2. Powerplay, the much maligned behind the scenes game of risk / secret war that players can contribute to. This can be quite fun if you get in a good group but it has flaws that need to be addressed.

For both of these activities, you need to get involved with a player group because without the social side of these game modes, they are just grind feats. There needs to be purpose to the grind.

 

[Viscera]

Endgame is a generic MMO term used when you have progressed so far, there's nothing else to do. Most MMO's concentrate on raids, PVP or emergent role playing in order to fill this gap and keep people playing, even though their characters are maxed out.

Elite has two features like this (maybe three if you include the thargoid stuff when it happens);-
1. BGS manipulation, where you and like minded individuals try and flip systems in support of a single faction you like.
2. Powerplay, the much maligned behind the scenes game of risk / secret war that players can contribute to. This can be quite fun if you get in a good group but it has flaws that need to be addressed.

None of these examples are endgame. They can be done equally well during beginninggame or midgame. There is no restrictions on when you may perform those activities.

 

[Vetinari]

My opinion / definition:

Endgame is that bit at the end of the game where you've 'played' the game, usually a 1 payer storyline, and then have a 'free' or 'open' world in which to explore and do what you want. In the past you just got end credits and had to start again, the endgame just solves that. Most publishers try and put things into the endgame (multiplayer usually) to make it more interesting eg GTA V has iirc 5 Robbery Missions you do as a team for example. Its basically a way of trying to 'extend' the game beyond its original premise, the story, and let players keep playing.

For me, they all fail, the endgame is interesting for a few hours and then its just meh, theres not enough to do as such, its an add on to keep the game going and it feels like it unless you like PVP maybe.

Elite / Elite Dangerous - is the endgame without the storyline and that's the premise in the first place. It doesn't start or end, it flows and you dip in and out, it doesn't wait for you or make you a hero. Its not an add-on to extend the game, its a different concept altogether.

Some people get that and love it for what it is, EMI/Thorne didn't and a lot of people today don't get that concept and want it to be what it isn't.

There is no endgame in Elite because there is no startgame for want of a better word....blaze your own trail.

 

[MDHansen]

There are a certain few people that treats a game as an A-Z game and once done doing everything, they call it complete. These are probably also people that play games for the Steam achievements. They will never enjoy a game like this, because it has no (clear) end, because it doesn't really have an end at all.
I got over 4000hrs and enjoying every aspect of it (bugs aside) as I did at 10hrs, 100hrs, 1000hrs. I got 6bill in the bank and 3bill in assets, and I've never done the "gold mines" and I frown upon people "grinding" ( i would never tell them to not grind, it's their loss)

 

[Phoenix_Dfire]

None of these examples are endgame. They can be done equally well during beginninggame or midgame. There is no restrictions on when you may perform those activities.

Technically, you can but they're not intended for that. For example; There's no way you can get to level 5 Power-play in just a starter ship and you're influence within the BGS in starter and even medium ships is negligible. Both game modes are there for people who have taken their single player experience as far as they want and are looking for some group content.

But back to my original point, when people talk about endgame content, they're talking about it in the MMO-context. I.e. We need something to do when everything else is done. It's not game over.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

While in an open-ended game you wouldn't necessarily stop playing having reached the endgame (though probably some people do), it's a useful parallel with the concept of endgame in a winnable game.

In a winnable game with internal progression [1], by the time you reach the end of the game, your character/nation/army/etc. probably has reached something close to the maximum power level the game allows.

That concept still applies to Elite Dangerous, but the question is can the game still be interesting in the long-term for players with end-game power levels? If the answer is no, then you can keep playing but people won't [2]. If the answer is yes, then it just marks a transition between "building your character" and "doing high-end things with your character".

(I tend to refer to 'veteran players' rather than 'endgame' but I don't think it matters that much)


Whether Fleet Carriers represent "something to do with an endgame account" or "an increase in the time spent building to get an endgame account" or both will depend on what they actually do, of course.


[1] Not in every genre, of course. Something like Street Fighter, your in-game character gains no extra power at all between the start and end of the game, and it's entirely about player skill ... and someone who can beat Street Fighter is still well below the actual upper limits on player skill. But it works for many games.

Obviously this also applies to some "endgame" Elite Dangerous activities - you can get to the point where you own a PvP-quality ship or an optimised racer pretty quickly, but getting to the point where you can actually win a fair fight/race in it might take several more months.

Similarly the BGS doesn't have an "endgame" even if the personal power progression of its players does.

[2] And most closed games know the answer is no for them, which is why the game ends at that point!

 

[Vetinari]

History of Endgame

Version 1 - End Credits, play again.
Version 2 - Unlocks such as Hard or Extreme Mode to play again
Version 3 - Some late game upgrades maybe weapons etc are available immediately when restarting, play again
Version 4 - A world or city was made 'open' to play in
Version 5 - Multiplayer
Version 6 - Open World games but still with a linear storyline base to get upgrades, unlocks or new missions

And in the room next door after being designed at the same time as Version 1, yes that early, is Elite.

 

[ShadowWolf Kell]

None of these examples are endgame. They can be done equally well during beginninggame or midgame. There is no restrictions on when you may perform those activities.

I've always viewed it as progression. Since my first foray into an MMO was EQ, that meant locked content that took considerable effort to achieve, then the next expansion would hit and the cycle would start anew. Most of us welcomed the new content because we played for the challenge, not the pixels (ie: gear)

For Star Wars Galaxies, endgame for space content amounted to Reverse Engineering the top item within a class, across all servers. It was an impossible goal, but most of us were happy to keep at it. Some of the stuff we REd were by far the absolutely best, to the point of people willing to transfer servers and spend a ludicrous amount of cash to buy some of the items to fill out their ships, then take it back to their home server (so yes, it cost them real money too) for their server's Space PvP scene (usually Farstrider, but not always.)

Both LoTRO and WoW were similar to EQ. My experience has always been as some form of progression cycle that really never ends. I'm guessing the "end game" many on the forums are talking about relates to solo gameplay.

 

[Mimix]

Endgame content in the case of Elite Dangerous means that it is the "best" thing money can buy. Right now there's people who have balances in the tens of billions and have nothing to spend that money on. They already have all the ships and modules they wanted, and the last few updates focused exclusively on the new player experience. So I think that giving players with lots of money something to sink their credits in is quite fair since they haven't been given such an opportunity in a very long time. It also gives beginners and intermediate players something to work towards.

Nobody is forcing you to mine or buy a carrier as soon as its released. All the fleet carrier threads moaning about the price can be summarised as "omg this new capital ship is being released and I don't have enough money to buy it while some others do - lower the price now, that's not fair!"

 

[JesusRocks1988]

I have seen the argument made that Fleet Carriers are endgame, hence their huge cost.

So, are you saying once you have done the long exciting months of button push to mine all those credits for a fleet carrier, You are going to turn off elite and play no more.

Is this not what endgame means?

Something you get at the end of the game.

Perhaps a new term, and another argument for the price should be thought of, as this one clearly does not fit unless that really is the whole point of elite.

Maybe FD should rewrite their advert if it is so...

ELITE Dangerous. Blaze a trail shooting rocks until you can buy a fleet carrier, then give up.

At least then any upkeep costs will be irrelevent, so perhaps it is the right way to play afterall.

Or...

Its a sandpit game... There is no endgame... Hmmmm! Cant be true, or that argument for FC prices goes rigbt out the window.

I prefer to use the term "Late Game".

Even though someone could possibly grind them out in a couple of months, and they are technically available to all players, an ordinary player would play through the game at a moderate pace, progressing through ships, trying different things, becoming Elite, going exploring, doing engineering, building their bank balance and ranks fast enough to afford the next ship, but not through ludicrous grinding, and otherwise experiencing everything else the game has to offer.

Then after they've got hundreds or thousands of hours in the game, they might be in a position where the Fleet Carrier is the next thing they can conceivably work towards. So they come later in the game.

 

[Navigare Necesse Est]

BGS isn't end game - I did that from the start. However, it's probably why I didn't get anywhere in the game. It's like its own gameloop using existing game stuff. And leaves little time for the grindy crap FD kept piling in.

 

[StuartGT]

None of these examples are endgame. They can be done equally well during beginninggame or midgame. There is no restrictions on when you may perform those activities.

It looks like you already know what endgame means. Is your OP a disingenuous troll post?

 

[Flimley]

End game, end game, party on, excellent \o/

Flimley

 

[StuartGT]

 

[zombieapocalypse]

Haunting these forums is the endgame for many

 

[zombieapocalypse]

While in an open-ended game you wouldn't necessarily stop playing having reached the endgame (though probably some people do), it's a useful parallel with the concept of endgame in a winnable game.

In a winnable game with internal progression [1], by the time you reach the end of the game, your character/nation/army/etc. probably has reached something close to the maximum power level the game allows.

That concept still applies to Elite Dangerous, but the question is can the game still be interesting in the long-term for players with end-game power levels? If the answer is no, then you can keep playing but people won't [2]. If the answer is yes, then it just marks a transition between "building your character" and "doing high-end things with your character".

(I tend to refer to 'veteran players' rather than 'endgame' but I don't think it matters that much)


Whether Fleet Carriers represent "something to do with an endgame account" or "an increase in the time spent building to get an endgame account" or both will depend on what they actually do, of course.


[1] Not in every genre, of course. Something like Street Fighter, your in-game character gains no extra power at all between the start and end of the game, and it's entirely about player skill ... and someone who can beat Street Fighter is still well below the actual upper limits on player skill. But it works for many games.

Obviously this also applies to some "endgame" Elite Dangerous activities - you can get to the point where you own a PvP-quality ship or an optimised racer pretty quickly, but getting to the point where you can actually win a fair fight/race in it might take several more months.

Similarly the BGS doesn't have an "endgame" even if the personal power progression of its players does.

[2] And most closed games know the answer is no for them, which is why the game ends at that point!

That's a pretty good synopsis!