Engineers are FUN

agh42

A
I'll post this here instead of the Engineers subforum so that other folks like me see it:

Engineers are fun. Who would have thought? I never bothered with the Engineers since they were introduced - to be honest all the talk on the forum and just the spreadsheet of all the materials scared me off.

But yesterday I happened to be in the vicinity of Todd McQuinn and decided to check him out to maybe upgrade my multicannons.

I did not know how the whole upgrading process actually worked, but unlocking him was no problem since I had just visited a nearby combat zone and had not handed in my bounties yet. And then I realized that I had over 60 nickel from missions and mining to spend on upgrades already. So I started spinning the wheel and I must say I had more fun watching the sliders go than should be expected from a normal sober-minded person ("Come on baby, papa needs a new pair of corrosive shells...")

It felt a bit like my last visit in Vegas, spending all my nickel on rolling the mods, but I realized that you can increase your rep just by burning your common materials on the 1st tier upgrades so I stayed up wayyy too late because I lost track of time. As I said, just like Vegas, baby. ;)

So the most important things someone should have told me before were:
1. you need very little to unlock an engineer
2. all the rest (higher level mods/gaining rep) can be done by burning common materials on tier 1 upgrades
3. then you can go for the really good stuff straight away

I'll be on my way now unlocking Felicity Farseer and going for the rarer materials needed for level 5 upgrades. Modified embedded firmware seems to be a bit tricky, but I guess I'll try visiting medium security +++ population bases.
 

Monk

Monk
It can take some time to unlock Marco Qwent though....25 Modular Terminals

I've got 19 so far, home stretch! He also requires being on friendly terms with Sirius Corporation which, for most people, should be work of a handful of missions. Also, keep in mind a lot of the Engineers take a secondary boost to influence. More than just completing upgrades, some of them will take exploration data or commodities towards unlocking higher grades.

I've got Palin and his Grade 5 thrusters in sight!

This is a helpful resource: http://inara.cz/galaxy-engineers
 

[VR] Frank_G

[VR] Frank_G
The engineers are only grind, when you want the maximum optimization now. Otherwise they are a nice addition to the game and i enjoy visiting one of them from time to time for a little upgrade. So yes, they are fun :).
 

fruitbat

fruitbat
Engineers have made me a ton of cash back from my corvette and cutter. I'm about 400 million cash richer than I was before modding them.

I do like that.
 

Fost

Fost
Yeah I've been having fun with them too.
The higher level stuff does get a bit more annoying though due to perhaps too much stat overlap between grades.
If you keep a plan written down it's fun looking out for the stuff you need.

Like everything in this game you can choose to make it into a ball-ache if you want to.
 

Martian Successor

Martian Successor
Monk said:
Indeed, people who enjoy or demand the max/min game will never be satisfied with any upgrade.
Click to expand...
Some people are satisfied with a passive mechanic based on random luck. Others seek more active involvement in their gameplay such as a mechanic based on precision or skill.

Moral of the story: not everybody likes gambling.
 

Monk

Monk
Martian Successor said:
Some people are satisfied with a passive mechanic based on random luck. Others seek more active involvement in their gameplay such as a mechanic based on precision or skill.

Moral of the story: not everybody likes gambling.
Click to expand...

I hate gambling with real money. Though to base it on skill and precision wouldn't we need to chuck Engineers entirely and have upgrades be reliant on the Commander? Like more traditional crafting in other games (though, they don't typically involve more skill than...collect this then press X).
 

lysan

lysan
It's great that some people like it, just like some people like to sit and pull the lever all day at the casino. No game is 100% skill based, there are some RNG involved at some point in all games.

Even FSX/DCS use it to change weather and other conditions.
 
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Martian Successor

Martian Successor
Monk said:
I hate gambling with real money. Though to base it on skill and precision wouldn't we need to chuck Engineers entirely and have upgrades be reliant on the Commander? Like more traditional crafting in other games (though, they don't typically involve more skill than...collect this then press X).
Click to expand...
And I hate activities that gamble with my time by not allowing me to know what a couple of days effort will bring.

Not necesarrily chuck the Engineers - it's still a good concept just a very poor implementation of it in my opinion. I don't mean to hijack this thread but to elaborate on what I mean I want to share how just 3 changes would make Engineers a better gameplay experience in ED:

1. Make finding and using higher grade/rarer materials actually mean something.

Instead of a random dice roll determining whether we get a bonus effect on an upgrade make it so that using higher grade materials actually mean something here. Want a special bonus effect? Then use specifically named higher quality materials when crafting that upgrade. For example, if you use worn shield emitters you get no bonus effect on a shield upgrade but if you use the much rarer and higher quality pristine shield emitters then you get a bonus effect. Use better materials for better results and bonus effects.

2. Change the modification mechanics to those of a more player inclusive/player interactive system rather than a passive "luck of the draw" based frustration.

In other words: the sliders are already there in the game, just give the players an avenue to have more control over the result of upgrades. For example; allow the player to use up more recipe materials of the same type (i.e. if a recipes wants x1 Phosphorus for a 'moderate' upgrade, make it able to use x5 Phosphorus for an 'advanced' upgrade) as well as use higher grade versions of materials on a single upgrade/modification in order to reduce the thresholds/big swings on the negative sliders and increase the chances of a better swing on the positive sliders, i.e. a swing that gravitates towards the upper end of the positive slider.

3. Remove commodities from Engineer recipes and have certain missions give you rare materials as rewards insteads. Simple quality of life improvement.

These changes will let players feel rewarded for putting in more effort by knowing what that effort will bring, i.e. a more precise upgrade where the player was way more in charge of producing a better outcome. It's essentially about letting us be more "Masters of our own fate" rather than "passengers in RNGesus' bus ride of fortune".
 
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Monk

Monk
Martian Successor said:
And I hate activities that gamble with my time by not allowing me to know what a couple of days effort will bring.

Not necesarrily chuck the Engineers - it's still a good concept just a very poor implementation of it in my opinion.

I don't mean to hijack this thread but to elaborate on what I mean I want to share how just 3 changes would make Engineers a better gameplay experience in ED:

1. Make finding and using higher grade/rarer materials actually mean something.

Instead of a random dice roll determining whether we get a bonus effect on an upgrade make it so that using higher grade materials actually mean something here. Want a special bonus effect? Then use specifically named higher quality materials when crafting that upgrade. For example, if you use worn shield emitters you get no bonus effect on a shield upgrade but if you use the much rarer and higher quality pristine shield emitters then you get a bonus effect. Use better materials for better results and bonus effects.

2. Change the modification mechanics to those of a more player inclusive/player interactive system rather than a passive "luck of the draw" based frustration.

In other words: the sliders are already there in the game, just give the players an avenue to have more control over the result of upgrades. For example; allow the player to use up more recipe materials of the same type (i.e. if a recipes wants x1 Phosphorus for a 'moderate' upgrade, make it able to use x5 Phosphorus for an 'advanced' upgrade) as well as use higher grade versions of materials on a single upgrade/modification in order to reduce the thresholds/big swings on the negative sliders and increase the chances of a better swing on the positive sliders, a swing that gravitates towards the upper end of the positive slider.

3. Remove commodities from Engineer recipes and have certain missions give you rare materials as rewards insteads. Simple quality of life improvement.

These changes will let players feel rewarded for putting in more effort by knowing what that effort will bring, i.e. a more precise upgrade where the player was way more in charge of producing a better outcome. It's essentially about letting us be more "Masters of our own fate" rather than "passengers in RNGesus' bus ride of fortune".
Click to expand...

I like these improvements. +1
 

Pyrotiger

Pyrotiger
Quick Question - those 25 modular terminals, do you have to take them all at once to Qwent? Or can you not just drop in, say, 4 at a time?
 

Han_Zen

Han_Zen
Monk said:
It can take some time to unlock Marco Qwent though....25 Modular Terminals

I've got 19 so far, home stretch! He also requires being on friendly terms with Sirius Corporation which, for most people, should be work of a handful of missions. Also, keep in mind a lot of the Engineers take a secondary boost to influence. More than just completing upgrades, some of them will take exploration data or commodities towards unlocking higher grades.

I've got Palin and his Grade 5 thrusters in sight!

This is a helpful resource: http://inara.cz/galaxy-engineers
Click to expand...

I'm about to start on Quent. Do you have to deliver all 25 in one go or does he accept part delivery?


Edit: aaaaand ninjaed
 
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