Engineers post 3.0 - didn't feel grindy. Well done FDEV!

[rootsrat]

So I spent last 2 weekends re-engineering my multi-purpose Conda. Did the full suite, every single module, from weapons, through utils to core and optional. Took me 2 weekends and it didn't feel like a grind for a second. Looking for mats is much easier now that it tells you exactly where to find them. That, combined with mat traders (side note - didn't have any trouble finding them either and I was flying in sectors I've never been before) has made the whole process fun and entertaining.

We're nearly there! All we need now is transferring ED Engineers (3rd party app) blueprint tracking and shopping list functionality along with all the filters and we're home.

Well done FDEV, I give you 4/5 for this!

 

[C64Fan]

So I spent last 2 weekends re-engineering my multi-purpose Conda. Did the full suite, every single module, from weapons, through utils to core and optional. Took me 2 weekends and it didn't feel like a grind for a second. Looking for mats is much easier now that it tells you exactly where to find them. That, combined with mat traders (side note - didn't have any trouble finding them either and I was flying in sectors I've never been before) has made the whole process fun and entertaining.

We're nearly there! All we need now is transferring ED Engineers (3rd party app) blueprint tracking and shopping list functionality along with all the filters and we're home.

Well done FDEV, I give you 4/5 for this!

I agree completely [up]. I have had a lot of fun gathering mats, and it never felt grindy.

 

[Arindor]

Each to their own I suppose. You either like it and don't feel the grind, or you hate it and it's coma-inducing.

 

[zimms]

I don't fully agree. It's better now, thanks to the traders. But looking for HGEs has to be one of the worst gameplay experiences I've ever witnessed.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I don't fully agree. It's better now, thanks to the traders. But looking for HGEs has to be one of the worst gameplay experiences I've ever witnessed.

Thankfully we have the traders for stuff that is tough to find.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

So I spent last 2 weekends re-engineering my multi-purpose Conda. Did the full suite, every single module, from weapons, through utils to core and optional. Took me 2 weekends and it didn't feel like a grind for a second. Looking for mats is much easier now that it tells you exactly where to find them. That, combined with mat traders (side note - didn't have any trouble finding them either and I was flying in sectors I've never been before) has made the whole process fun and entertaining.

We're nearly there! All we need now is transferring ED Engineers (3rd party app) blueprint tracking and shopping list functionality along with all the filters and we're home.

Well done FDEV, I give you 4/5 for this!

Yep. I agree. Engineers is not how I would have done it, but it is better then the previous and that's coming from a PvE environment. I find upgrading my ships far easier these day, especially from scratch with the pinned blueprints. I am sure people will think otherwise though. There is no way FDev can please everyone.

 

[daman]

mat collection and traders are improved.

multiple pinned blueprints and remote workshop is a plus.

the actual system is tho even more grindy than before. To roll a single roll on G5 on a module you to first roll from G1 up to G4. This can be anything from 6 to 10 rolls. And then you get your first G5 roll.

Old system you could just roll a single G5.

So the environment/ eco system around engineering is better imo. but the amount of rolls required and therefore mats required just to roll a single G5 is worse by a long way.

 

[CMDR EDGEL0RD]

It does not feels grindy when you have only one ship to mod. At about 3 of them, previous iteration would feel better.

And there is stuff with grandfathered additional effects like distributor draw and heat reductions, which are unavaliable now but were left in use for those who have them.
This leaves some most efficient loadouts only for people who had them already. Like dual LR beams on Vette. Pretty much all LR/Focused stuff is significantly worse now than it was before. Not even mentioning shields with optimal mass. And double clip SCBs. And all of it were left in use. Without compareable alternatives. This have to be changed either with new slots for additionals or with removing said stuff from grandfathered, and ASAP.

This really kills all the drive to outfit ships, knowing that you won't ever get to some most efficient loadouts and a lot of people already have them.

 

[NeilF]

So I spent last 2 weekends re-engineering my multi-purpose Conda. Did the full suite, every single module, from weapons, through utils to core and optional. Took me 2 weekends and it didn't feel like a grind for a second. Looking for mats is much easier now that it tells you exactly where to find them. That, combined with mat traders (side note - didn't have any trouble finding them either and I was flying in sectors I've never been before) has made the whole process fun and entertaining.

We're nearly there! All we need now is transferring ED Engineers (3rd party app) blueprint tracking and shopping list functionality along with all the filters and we're home.

Well done FDEV, I give you 4/5 for this!

I've not touched it yet myself. But in my head I still see the pinned blue prints as FD (Sandro?) clinging to something from Engineers V1 unnecessarily.

ie: I feel Engineering would be smoother if you could simply engineer (with any engineer you've unlocked etc) at any station full stop, instead of only being able to do this for pinned blue prints. If you want the magic spell side effect etc, then fair enough, go to an Engineer. But introducing needless journeys is just needless/pointless faff IMHO when it doesn't really add anything.


Thoughts? If you could do away with pinned blue prints and simply engineer any module at any station?

 

[rootsrat]

I've not touched it yet myself. But in my head I still see the pinned blue prints as FD (Sandro?) clinging to something from Engineers V1 unnecessarily.

ie: I feel Engineering would be smoother if you could simply engineer (with any engineer you've unlocked etc) at any station full stop, instead of only being able to do this for pinned blue prints. If you want the magic spell side effect etc, then fair enough, go to an Engineer. But introducing needless journeys is just needless/pointless faff IMHO when it doesn't really add anything.


Thoughts? If you could do away with pinned blue prints and simply engineer any module at any station?

Hm... Not sure to be honest. I can see how they'd want people to visit Engineers, but at the same time I can see how this is just artificial gameplay. I think with current implementation your solution could improve things even more.

Personally though, I would like to see many more Engineers, even if more generic ones (kinda like Mat Traders) scattered across the populated space and no pinned stuff. You'd still need to go and visit them for your engineering needs, but there would be always one just rund the corner. And there could be some named Engineers, which would be true masters of their trade - perhaps they should be the only ones being able to apply special effects to the modules.

I actually quite like my proposal now that I typed it

 

[NeilF]

Hm... Not sure to be honest. I can see how they'd want people to visit Engineers, but at the same time I can see how this is just artificial gameplay. I think with current implementation your solution could improve things even more.

Personally though, I would like to see many more Engineers, even if more generic ones (kinda like Mat Traders) scattered across the populated space and no pinned stuff. You'd still need to go and visit them for your engineering needs, but there would be always one just rund the corner. And there could be some named Engineers, which would be true masters of their trade - perhaps they should be the only ones being able to apply special effects to the modules.

I actually quite like my proposal now that I typed it

Well, the premise of every station allowing you to engineer any module (with any unlocked engineer) is that taken to the logical conclusion.

It means at any time, you can simply look to see if you can upgrade anything on your ship with what you've currently got. It takes away the, Oh! I need to fly there to do that! Which invariably you probably won't as spending 20mins in loading screens strangely isn't engaging gameplay!

 

[Schlack]

I havent really felt the engineer grind in 3.0 for 3 reasons.

1. All engies already unlocked.
2. I've been doing a lot of missions for the BGS and have gathered sufficient G5 mats for trading that way.
3. Im only engieing new ships/upgrades when I have sufficient from (2) above so not specifically grinding for engineers.

 

[CMDR Karrde Sun]

Im not sure what you're engineering but it feels exactly the same(!!!!) to me.

If anything its slightly more frustrating. In the past, i would be happy with the best from how many mats i brought along that day. With 3, because its now possible, it feels wrong to leave a module unfinished, and not having enough mats when hoping you did is a medium to strong frustration and always a disappointment if rng doesnt like you that day. I guess theres a soft minimum that pretty much guarantees you'll get it but that just installs a mountain.

EDIT: The only unquestioned relief is not having to sell rep for special effects.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

the actual system is tho even more grindy than before. To roll a single roll on G5 on a module you to first roll from G1 up to G4. This can be anything from 6 to 10 rolls. And then you get your first G5 roll.

Old system you could just roll a single G5.

True - though most of the blueprints have themselves been buffed significantly, so if you just want a module of the quality of an average single old G5 roll ... just stop at G4 (or in some cases even just G3+experimental). Then you don't need any G5 materials at all, which are usually the most time-consuming to obtain.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

With 3, because its now possible, it feels wrong to leave a module unfinished

It's interesting, this - it's possible to "finish" a module in about 10 rolls, perhaps 15 at worst - compared with 1,000+ and still not certain in the old system. So as you say, a lot of people feel that they "have" to *even if* they'd have been content with "best of 3 rolls" in 2.4.

But after the first 4-5 rolls, the rest add tiny benefits. Unless you absolutely need that extra 0.1 LY jump range, that extra 2m/s boost speed, that extra 1% thermal resistance ... there's really not much point in finishing the module. You'd get far more benefit out of the same materials half-finishing G5 on two or three more ships instead. Outside PvP (and questionably then, unless you're up against someone of near-identical skill) there's no situation in the game that a fully maxed G5 ship will handle that an "any G5" ship wouldn't.

 

[darkwolf79]

Having only lightly engineered my ASP-X for exploration (all legacy upgrades now) I have now just started, for the first time, to fully engineer my new Chieftain for combat. (with both PVE and PVP in mind)
I've spend a few evenings on this already and already this is spiralling out of control into all sorts of madness. Go to engineer A to get friendly with them to be then forwarded to engineer B who has what I wants. All the while gathering mats so I have what I need when I get to it.
Have to say, I love it so far. I very much enjoy the process of unlocking the engineers while also doing all the other things required. I can already tell that this will take me quite a while longer but heck, it's fun?
Personally I'd say that the engineering process, while certainly not fast, is fun. (I do only have a limited amount of time I can spend playing but whatever, if it takes time it takes time, as long as its fun)

 

[Nerix]

Completely agreed. I really like engineering now and this was my main focus since 3.0 dropped. Well done, FDev!

If anyone else struggles with keeping an overview of all the components you need for upgrading your ship have a look at my signature. After 3.0 dropped I created a tool to calculate the comoponents you need based on the blueprint and #of rolls input.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

It's interesting, this - it's possible to "finish" a module in about 10 rolls, perhaps 15 at worst - compared with 1,000+ and still not certain in the old system. So as you say, a lot of people feel that they "have" to *even if* they'd have been content with "best of 3 rolls" in 2.4.

But after the first 4-5 rolls, the rest add tiny benefits. Unless you absolutely need that extra 0.1 LY jump range, that extra 2m/s boost speed, that extra 1% thermal resistance ... there's really not much point in finishing the module. You'd get far more benefit out of the same materials half-finishing G5 on two or three more ships instead. Outside PvP (and questionably then, unless you're up against someone of near-identical skill) there's no situation in the game that a fully maxed G5 ship will handle that an "any G5" ship wouldn't.

I am happy with just one G5 roll at the moment, and that is only on certain modules like my FSD Drives. Don't see the need to max everything out.

And even then I am happy slowly upgrading them. The only downside is that I have to visit an engineer to convert them, but there is no reason why I cannot wipe the effect and start from scratch.

 

[Codger]

I've done a lot of engineering, in the old system and in the new.

My conclusion:

The grind is nearly the same, timewise, with a few conveniences thrown in. The amount of time spent is pretty much the same.

But, the results are better, and can be predicted and reproduced, making it possible to build a ship exactly the way you want.

So, while I agree the new system is better, the grind part (gathering mats) seems about the same as before.

 

[Vardaugas]

Personally I love HGEs in shipping lanes and pinned blueprints the most. Then the grade 4 and 5 materials from high ranked enemy ships coupled with the material traders really helps to stock up on the things you need.