General / Off-Topic EU Referendum (UK only) - to Brexit or not to Brexit
- Thread starter Caspar
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Of course, but I'm from the UK. We only have the appearance of democracy as our two main parties are almost identical and without proportional representation voting for anyone else is a waste of a ballot paper. It doesn't matter if you vote for Barry or Paul you still get a Chuckle brother.
But Mrs Stigbob is an EU citizen from outside the UK, this affects my view on the matter more than politics.
If the UK leaves the European Union, the mainland residents will have to pay customs charges for the expansions and the goods, of ED ?
This is exactly the same on the continent. And also, it is painful (for a french) to be subjected to Brussels and the Germany
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rootsrat
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Remain. Europe can't afford to be divided right now and UK exit could potentially cause a domino effect. The hit to the UK economy would be massive as well - I'm thinking EU citizens living and working in the UK. They'd be forced to leave the country, unless the government would allow for them to stay, but that's like eating and cake and having it too - can't happen.
I think most of the anti-EU sentiment (by mainstream parties) within the UK is an attempt to win back the votes of UKIP supporters. The current government is saying things they think will be popular, but the last thing they want is to leave the EU. As you say the hit to the economy would be massive, the EU as a whole has more sway that the UK alone and we rely on immigration to keep a lot of our jobs filled.
The government is playing a game of popular politics to show they will stand up to the EU, but an actual exit would be panic stations for them. If the referendum goes in favor of leaving I suspect the government will plan a phased exit over a number of years and after delaying long enough will claim the original referendum is no longer valid due to elapsed time and hold a second one (possibly followed by more). This is what the Irish did when the population voted against the Lisbon treaty in 2009 "we'll hold another referendum and this time the people should vote the right way". http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/8285849.stm
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Cameron invested millions of euros to strengthen the barriers to Calais
And you can pick up a pair of wire-cutters for 2 euro.
Exactly. And even the German's don't profit from it. Salaries are low and there are high taxes. Imports are even more expensive because VAT is mandatory from within other EU countries.
Now that I left Germany, I have double the income and pay only half the taxes.
First, why should UK care about the "rest"? That means UK citizens (like German citizens and many other) will be paying for the benefit of others.
Second, being outside of the EU doesn't mean that there will be no trade, services or employment. Just issue appropriate working permits to those people who are productive.
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The government of a non-EU UK would not kick out EU citizens working and paying tax here, any more than it kicks out (say) Australian workers.
There may be more paperwork for foreign workers and their employers (as there was back in the days of the EEC and then the EC) but that's hardly the same as forcing people to leave.
rootsrat
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The way the EU has developed is a consequence of the ambivalence of European governments. Since Thatcher, all the UK government has ever done is complain, but never actually tried to do anything.
There was a time when I was very keen on Europe. Now it has become clear that, if England does vote to leave, the Scots will use that as an excuse to call another referendum, almost certainly leading to the final break up of the UK farce.
The terrible economic consequences for England of leaving the EU might be worth that cost.
Great - wishing ruin on two countries!
No.
The UK is simply too dangerous to continue. It serves no purpose other than military. To attack others.
There is no defensive need. If it were attacked it could never hope to defend itself except with assistance for the rest of Europe, which it would get.
It serves no economic need. The economies of W Europe are wholly integrated. Indeed that has been the principal argument made by UKIP.
It serves no political need. Our democracies and societies are among the most stable in the modern world.
Any short term losses will be more than compensated by the lives potentially saved from our inability to participate in future military adventures.
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