every canister is stolen? why?

[yale3d]

if i pick up a canister on an unidentified signal source, it allways say: stolen.
why?
it's getting really frustrating.
i jump on a signal and 40% ot the time it's like "ah, some canister crap"
why are those canisters even there if i can't pick'em up?
i picked up some platinum a while ago. i received 105K fine before i managed to sell on a black market. for 70K.
SERIOUSLY annoying for a beginner!
and i really dont get the point: how do "they" know that?
and if "they" know everything, why do i have to go to here and there to cash my vouchers out?

 

[Wurz]

Take them to outposts

 

[talshiarr]

Did you buy the contents of the lost canister? No, therefore you're in possession of stolen goods. It would be nice if they put in a salvage permit system or something but otherwise that's the rules for now.

 

[Rivka]

if i pick up a canister on an unidentified signal source, it allways say: stolen.
why?
it's getting really frustrating.
i jump on a signal and 40% ot the time it's like "ah, some canister crap"
why are those canisters even there if i can't pick'em up?
i picked up some platinum a while ago. i received 105K fine before i managed to sell on a black market. for 70K.
SERIOUSLY annoying for a beginner!
and i really dont get the point: how do "they" know that?
and if "they" know everything, why do i have to go to here and there to cash my vouchers out?

Frontier decided to go with a more realistic approach there, over the typical MMO "You loot it, it's yours" game mechanic. It's stolen because it doesn't belong to you, it belongs to whoever dropped it in space.

You can grab them if you want, but like you found out, if the cops catch you they'll get annoyed. It's pretty simple to get past the scans though, just boost into the station, or learn how to pull a silent running sneak in. Once you break the airlock, NPC goods scans are cancelled.

 

[Aquamonkey]

No certificate of purchase.

Did you buy the contents of the lost canister? No, therefore you're in possession of stolen goods. It would be nice if they put in a salvage permit system or something but otherwise that's the rules for now.

No, officer. I don't know how that ship blew up. It was like that when I got there... and I found all this expensive stuff just floating there.

 

[yale3d]

Frontier decided to go with a more realistic approach there, over the typical MMO "You loot it, it's yours" game mechanic. It's stolen because it doesn't belong to you, it belongs to whoever dropped it in space.

You can grab them if you want, but like you found out, if the cops catch you they'll get annoyed. It's pretty simple to get past the scans though, just boost into the station, or learn how to pull a silent running sneak in. Once you break the airlock, NPC goods scans are cancelled.

Doesn't belong to me doesn't mean it's stolen. It's just plain stupid!
Have you ever found anything? Did you steal it?
If i find something and i know the owner, i'll return it.
But if i find something with no owner, thats mine.
But let's approach from the game perspective: why would i pick up ANYTHING if that's automatically considered stolen?
I'm not a thief! I take what's mine and leave what's not. But if i find a 1000 Euro banknote on a dead street and take it, am i a thief?
Come on, be realistic...

 

[Asmodivs]

Should be considered salvage and not stolen but whatever, I just go to outposts with a black market or sneak into stations.

 

[BadSector]

Doesn't belong to me doesn't mean it's stolen. It's just plain stupid!
Have you ever found anything? Did you steal it?
If i find something and i know the owner, i'll return it.
But if i find something with no owner, thats mine.
But let's approach from the game perspective: why would i pick up ANYTHING if that's automatically considered stolen?
I'm not a thief! I take what's mine and leave what's not. But if i find a 1000 Euro banknote on a dead street and take it, am i a thief?
Come on, be realistic...

Once i found 40 euros lying on the street, i picked them up and put em in my own pocked. That apparently makes me a dishonest thief according to some, even tho there was no way to know who lost em. Perhaps we'r too far in G.Wells 84, dunno.

 

[Goilveig]

Doesn't belong to me doesn't mean it's stolen. It's just plain stupid!
Have you ever found anything? Did you steal it?
If i find something and i know the owner, i'll return it.
But if i find something with no owner, thats mine.
But let's approach from the game perspective: why would i pick up ANYTHING if that's automatically considered stolen?
I'm not a thief! I take what's mine and leave what's not. But if i find a 1000 Euro banknote on a dead street and take it, am i a thief?
Come on, be realistic...

It's actually based on real maritime law.

If the original person who jettisoned the goods did so of their own volition (which can only happen with a player using 'abandon') they are flotsam and are the property of the finder. Otherwise, they are jetsam and property of the original owner. If you went out on the high seas today, you can't just claim anything you find. And actually, yes, if you take that bank note you're probably breaking the law. You are supposed to surrender it to the police as missing property. Just because you don't know who the lawful owner is doesn't mean there isn't a lawful owner.

It's also very likely that the cargo containers are "smart containers" and have the ownership info stored in them. Those are already being used today in some areas (wifi or rfid-enabled shipping containers).

As to why they are in the game - smuggling is a profession. If you want to smuggle, go ahead.

 

[BaronDeKalb]

Doesn't belong to me doesn't mean it's stolen. It's just plain stupid!
Have you ever found anything? Did you steal it?
If i find something and i know the owner, i'll return it.
But if i find something with no owner, thats mine.
But let's approach from the game perspective: why would i pick up ANYTHING if that's automatically considered stolen?
I'm not a thief! I take what's mine and leave what's not. But if i find a 1000 Euro banknote on a dead street and take it, am i a thief?
Come on, be realistic...

If we imagine a future with space ships and canisters, it is not difficult to imagine that every canister would be imprinted with the shipper's name and ship registry number.
So should such shipper befall an "unfortunate accident" the rightful owner of the goods could be reimbursed via insurance.
Also if another person showed up trying to sell said goods without checking the ownership id they could be brought in for questioning.
This all seems very realistic to me. Luckily there is a simple option for profiting from others misfortune via outposts with almost 0 risk of being detected.

Also there is a option for a trader to drop freight that is not marked as stolen should said trader wish to make a "donation" to one less fortunate who can not be bothered to get a real job.

 

[Vulpes Fire]

An easy way around scans that you can't avoid by boosting or getting in station is just to throw everything out the window (jettison). For some reason it works if you get everything out before the scan finishes and you can just pick everything back up after you get cleared by the cops.

 

[Zylark]

If you have 'stolen' goods here are the rules:

1: Drop them off at the nearest outpost with a black market ASAP.
2: Don't stop for anything before completing point 1.

Pretty simple. Basic premise is, you do not - at all - want to get scanned by the law when carrying illegal goods. Get rid of it before you do anything else, or risk getting a nice hefty fine.

It is how it is. You may not like it, but trading in illegal stuff in this game requires a real paranoid mindset to be even remotely profitable.

edit: If by some mission you need deliver illegal goods at a large station, be sure you are flying something fast and nimble. That way you can get through the slot before a scan completes pretty easy, even if something big is blocking it. Even better, don't accept such missions unless you think it really important or profitable. The fine for getting caught is one thing, the negative reputation you gain is even more severe.

 

[BadSector]

It's actually based on real maritime law.

If the original person who jettisoned the goods did so of their own volition (which can only happen with a player using 'abandon') they are flotsam and are the property of the finder. Otherwise, they are jetsam and property of the original owner. If you went out on the high seas today, you can't just claim anything you find. And actually, yes, if you take that bank note you're probably breaking the law. You are supposed to surrender it to the police as missing property. Just because you don't know who the lawful owner is doesn't mean there isn't a lawful owner.

It's also very likely that the cargo containers are "smart containers" and have the ownership info stored in them. Those are already being used today in some areas (wifi or rfid-enabled shipping containers).

As to why they are in the game - smuggling is a profession. If you want to smuggle, go ahead.

Do you realize what happened if people give a lost money to police? they keep it, since nobody CANT prove their the ownership. Unless there's were aren't talking about a major frauds etc. Do an experiment get a bill from you wallet , get in streets and start asking "who lost this 100 euro bill !!?? Comoon people i haven't got all day! "

 

[Zylark]

Do you realize what happened if people give a lost money to police? they keep it, since nobody CANT prove their the ownership. Unless there's were aren't talking about a major frauds etc. Do an experiment get a bill from you wallet , get in streets and start asking "who lost this 100 euro bill !!?? Comoon people i haven't got all day! "

A more realistic scenario is Laptops who just happened to fall off a truck... Yes, you might pick them up and some dealer might want to buy them for a good price. But if the law comes around, the 'fell off a truck' story won't do you much good.

 

[jpaulwilson1982]

I'm sure FD didn't intend for this to be a beginner's trap, but that's what it is. All other space games I played didn't label cargo as stolen unless you kill someone and took their cargo. Personally, I have no problem with loose cargo being labeled as stolen, but this wasn't clear when I first started playing and was one of the reasons I couldn't ever build +Rep. FD should have made some of that drifting cargo in those USSs labeled as salvageable (to be a bit more realistic), with the owner paying a finders fee upon returning that cargo without having to worry about being labeled as a thief. If you kept the abandoned cargo for too long or sell it to someone other than the owner, then it could be interpreted as stealing and an in-game punishment would be reasonable. But, for now, its almost all stolen (perhaps for simplicity's sake).

For the time, though, treat all drifting cargo as stolen. But, there is a way to make money off of drifting cargo without it having much of an effect on your rep with the galactic nations;

- Retrieve drifting cargo only in anarchy systems or dictatorial, independent systems. If at any point you retrieve this cargo in any other system you stand the risk of being scanned and, therefore, fined or even wanted.

- Only sell that cargo in anarchy systems or independent dictatorial systems, so that it won't hurt your rep and so that you don't risk being wanted by a major nation.

- Be a bit picky in what you retrieve. Only pick up valuable stuff.

Of course, you can do this any way you want. This is merely advice from personal experience. I hope this helps and be careful out there. This game punishes both death and carelessness. I think its a little too harsh really, but it is possible to adapt. Take nearly every action as seriously as real life. You will be punished accordingly (and rewarded sparingly).

 

[Goilveig]

Do you realize what happened if people give a lost money to police? they keep it, since nobody CANT prove their the ownership. "

It depends. In my state, if the original owner doesn't come forward in five years, ownership is given to the person that found it. There are ways to claim ownership of lost money - for example, by knowing the location the money was found and the exact denomination. If you turn in $100 you found on 4th street, and someone else has filed a lost property form saying they lost $100 on 4th street, the police are going to give it to them.

Anyhow, state law here is that any lost property of a value over $50 must be turned in to the police, or there is the potential to be subject to up to $5000 in fines, the loss of the property, and 9 months in jail.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Its not beyond the realms of possibility that FD at some point in the future might change this so that proper salvage found in USS get flagged diffwrently. Until then... Black markets at outposts.

 

[BadSector]

I'm sure FD didn't intend for this to be a beginner's trap, but that's what it is. All other space games I played didn't label cargo as stolen unless you kill someone and took their cargo. Personally, I have no problem with loose cargo being labeled as stolen, but this wasn't clear when I first started playing and was one of the reasons I couldn't ever build +Rep. FD should have made some of that drifting cargo in those USSs labeled as salvageable (to be a bit more realistic), with the owner paying a finders fee upon returning that cargo without having to worry about being labeled as a thief. If you kept the abandoned cargo for too long or sell it to someone other than the owner, then it could be interpreted as stealing and an in-game punishment would be reasonable. But, for now, its almost all stolen (perhaps for simplicity's sake).

For the time, though, treat all drifting cargo as stolen. But, there is a way to make money off of drifting cargo without it having much of an effect on your rep with the galactic nations;

- Retrieve drifting cargo only in anarchy systems or dictatorial, independent systems. If at any point you retrieve this cargo in any other system you stand the risk of being scanned and, therefore, fined or even wanted.

- Only sell that cargo in anarchy systems or independent dictatorial systems, so that it won't hurt your rep and so that you don't risk being wanted by a major nation.

- Be a bit picky in what you retrieve. Only pick up valuable stuff.

Of course, you can do this any way you want. This is merely advice from personal experience. I hope this helps and be careful out there. This game punishes both death and carelessness. I think its a little too harsh really, but it is possible to adapt. Take nearly every action as seriously as real life. You will be punished accordingly (and rewarded sparingly).

I purpose that anything you found, in anarchy, indepentent , and empty territories, you cant keep it no problemo. However, i'm not quite sure about case of dictatorship.. depends of what kind dictator where dealing here ? Megalomaniac or reasonable one?

 

[Eagle Eye]

Doesn't belong to me doesn't mean it's stolen. It's just plain stupid!
Have you ever found anything? Did you steal it?
If i find something and i know the owner, i'll return it.
But if i find something with no owner, thats mine.
But let's approach from the game perspective: why would i pick up ANYTHING if that's automatically considered stolen?
I'm not a thief! I take what's mine and leave what's not. But if i find a 1000 Euro banknote on a dead street and take it, am i a thief?
Come on, be realistic...

Did you bring it to the closest Police station/lost & found? No? you stole it. I found a $1000 DSLR in a very busy foreign tourist hotspot and nobody seem to be looking for his missing gear around, no security camera around, and nobody speak English. I got a DSLR bag with me (because I carry one myself) so I can just dunk it in and nobody would know (I am leaving the country the next day) & I got a spare camera for free, score right? No, I brought it to the nearest shop, who I communicate with in gestures (shopkeeper kept giving the camera back to me as I was giving it to her), she finally understood it's a found camera which was picked near her shop (showed her the place) and immediately called the local security in charge of the place. as I was leaving the shop, the found camera announcement is being announced on the PA speakers. Clear conscience.

On topic,
The canister ingame is electronically marked with the original owner's (and hauler's) detail. If the owner want to mark it as not stolen, he got to do it manually (like you can if you want to abandon your own cargo for a friend to pick up), if the process is not done, any scan will show that you are not the owner (or hauler), so that shows up, and you're fined.

 

[Rivka]

It depends. In my state, if the original owner doesn't come forward in five years, ownership is given to the person that found it. There are ways to claim ownership of lost money - for example, by knowing the location the money was found and the exact denomination. If you turn in $100 you found on 4th street, and someone else has filed a lost property form saying they lost $100 on 4th street, the police are going to give it to them.

Anyhow, state law here is that any lost property of a value over $50 must be turned in to the police, or there is the potential to be subject to up to $5000 in fines, the loss of the property, and 9 months in jail.

About the same rules in my state, anything found (including cash) above a certain amount has to go to the police. They give you a receipt, tell you to come back in 90 days to claim it.

In fact, said police just got done running a sting operation regarding it. They left a wallet out on a bench at a bus stop with cameras and a plainclothes officer watching it. $250 in the wallet. People would pick it up, take the money out, then get promptly handcuffed and hauled away.

There were only like, 2 people out of quite a few arrested who actually went and gave the wallet to the police officer down the block.