every canister is stolen? why?

Urbanski101

Urbanski101
How about if you kill a wanted npc and they drop their cargo during the fight, surely that should not be considered stolen?

I'd like to see salvage permits for regions of space, maybe time limited where you get salvage rights and a % goes to the permit issuer
 

edgar

edgar
yale3d said:
if i pick up a canister on an unidentified signal source, it allways say: stolen.
why?
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Because you didn't buy it: so you have stolen it. Its likely to be some cargo left behind at the wreckage of a destroyed ship. Those goods belong to either the next of kin of the victim or the victim's creditors. The cargo canisters themselves are registered to the original owners, and System Authority vessels have the capability to determine ownership status during their scans.

yale3d said:
it's getting really frustrating.
i jump on a signal and 40% ot the time it's like "ah, some canister crap"
why are those canisters even there if i can't pick'em up?
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You can pick them up, if you want to play be a criminal. Its called "smuggling"!
If you are willing to take the risk of committing the serious crime of smuggling, then you can exchange the stolen goods for credits at a Black Market. Its highly profitable.

The advantage of smuggling over legal trading is that (as you didn't expend any credits purchasing the cargo), you receive 100% profit.
On the flip-side, Black Market prices for commodities are much lower than Open Market prices;
and you run the risk of huge reputational damage if caught smuggling by the System Authorities.

yale3d said:
i picked up some platinum a while ago. i received 105K fine before i managed to sell on a black market. for 70K.
SERIOUSLY annoying for a beginner!
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I did this when I started out too, but with Palladium. I was annoyed as well: the Federation went Hostile to me, all the Fed ships and stations went red on my radar!
It was really difficult to conduct my business in the Federation and I was forced to operate out of Independent / Empire systems for a while.
It took me lots of BB missions for Fed factions and quite some time to get my reputation with them back to Neutral.

But then I realised that this is a really cool aspect of the game: my mistakes and inexperience shaped a story for me; I ended up becoming Allied with several Empire factions, and amassed a modest fortune, because I was forced to get into bounty hunting as I tried to improve my reputation. Now I have a sense of my own story and place in the galaxy.

I'm also much better at smuggling after getting stung early on. Take it all as a learning experience.

As for prices at a Black Market being worse / profit from smuggling not making up for the fines: this is all realistic.
Black Markets can demand that smugglers accept lower prices in exchange for taking high risk goods off them, and smugglers accept the low prices in order to get rid of the hot cargo.
System Authority fines for smuggling need to be greater than the value of the smuggled goods, as a deterrent.
 

Alien

Alien
Salvaging is something Frontier have considered (there is a DDF article on it in the DDF archive)
I'd really like to be able to salvage as well, but agree with the "If it isn't yours, then it's stolen" rule.
 

the100thmonkey

the100thmonkey
Shift your hoovered goods at an outpost with a black market. That's the easiest solution.

You can do it at a big starport too. You don't even need to boost through the entrance. You can if you want, but it's pretty easy to redecorate the hull of the station that way.

Just line up your approach about 9km out, put 4 pips to engines and go full throttle. Request docking at 7.5km and keep going. Ease back a little on the throttle at about 300m and deploy landing gear. The gear will lock inside the station and slow you down.

It's easy, although riskier than just docking at an outpost. The system authority ships never have time to complete the scan.

I've only been caught with stolen goods at a starport once, and that was because I forgot I had hoovered some rare artworks the night before and just docked normally.
 

Rhywden

Rhywden
Rivka said:
Frontier decided to go with a more realistic approach there, over the typical MMO "You loot it, it's yours" game mechanic. It's stolen because it doesn't belong to you, it belongs to whoever dropped it in space.

You can grab them if you want, but like you found out, if the cops catch you they'll get annoyed. It's pretty simple to get past the scans though, just boost into the station, or learn how to pull a silent running sneak in. Once you break the airlock, NPC goods scans are cancelled.
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"More realistic"? Since we're flying _ships_, the situation is comparable to a maritime setting and I'd like to point out the international convention on salvage.

Namely that you're _rewarded_ if you return salvage... in fact, you're actually _entitled_ to get money.
 

yale3d

Y
Dakron Nova said:
Er No its not.

If I leave £20 laying in the street and walk away, if somebody picks it up and walks off with no intention of handing it in to the police. Then its stolen (no matter how stupid I was for doing it).

I refer the right honorable commander to a case in 2009 where a married couple, Amanda and Michael Stacey, found a lottery ticket and won £30,000 where upon they decided to keep the winnings. They received a 9 month suspended sentence and were ordered to pay pack the 15K they had already spent. Their defense lawyer Rob Ross at the time was quoted as saying "It is important for the public to know that 'Finders keepers, losers weepers' is not true and never was."


Same with Cargo in space, if someone has left in floating in space that's up to them.
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All due respect: what's unclear on "with no owner"? Your 20 has an owner: You. Can you prove it or not is an other question.
I'm talking about canisters with no owner and my OP was about why don't they exist?

And btw: if they always have their owner, that could be a whole new role to track down and return lost cargo.
A dangerous but well paid job; i guess companies would pay for such service generously. (Hmm, i guess it might worth a new topic.)

"Thats just not yours" has really weak potential...
 

Loskene

L
Yeah there's a big difference between finding 20 quid on the street and finding 50 grand worth of rare earth metals. Standard cargo containers all have transaction histories built in to them. They broadcast what's in them and (presumably) everyone who bought and sold them, or marked them as flotsam (abandoned) before jettisoning them. Now if we could actually read this transaction history it would open up mission opportunities to return lost and valuable cargo for a reward.
 

Darkcyde

Darkcyde
The USS's with the various cargo canisters just floating in space are there for the illegal 'find me some X' missions you can sometimes get off the job boards. Things like Black Boxes or Military Plans or a certain commodity, where the mission requires the item to be 'stolen'. THAT'S the reason for their existence.
 

Skip Intro

Skip Intro
yale3d said:
Doesn't belong to me doesn't mean it's stolen. It's just plain stupid!
Have you ever found anything? Did you steal it?
If i find something and i know the owner, i'll return it.
But if i find something with no owner, thats mine.
But let's approach from the game perspective: why would i pick up ANYTHING if that's automatically considered stolen?
I'm not a thief! I take what's mine and leave what's not. But if i find a 1000 Euro banknote on a dead street and take it, am i a thief?
Come on, be realistic...
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It doesn't matter what you think or try to post any 'real world' definition, the rules of the game are the rules of the game, rather like being shot to death by the station for breaking their rules.
 
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