Expand in the same System two times

[Fresse Blutström]

Today is the second time the same group has expanded into our system. That can only be wrong. If the group does not want to remain in the system, it has no chance of ignoring the system - ever and ever they jump in the same system?

System: Helgoland
Faction: RadioSidewinderGalactic
First Expand: 2019-02-05
Second Expand: 2019-03-14

 

[Ian Doncaster]

They're already present in every other system within range that doesn't have 7 factions, so having previously retreated isn't sufficiently deprioritising.

It was sufficient to get them to go to Dubbuennel *first*, having retreated from Helgoland - but then their next expansion had no better option.

 

[Fresse Blutström]

Once out was always out, at least in the past or not ? - and that was the right thing to do.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Once out was always out, at least in the past or not ? - and that was the right thing to do.

No, it's always worked this way. It's just that in most places - and even in Colonia when expansions were slowed down more by intervening wars, retreats, etc. - getting back round to the end of the list would take a long time, generally long enough that most people would have forgotten it had been there to start with.

The order of expansions is as follows [1] (unchanged in 3.3):
1) System within 20 LY cube, system has <7 factions, no previous retreat
2) System within 20 LY cube, system has <7 factions, previous retreat
3) System within 20 LY cube, system has 7 factions, no previous retreat
4) System within 20 LY cube, system has 7 factions, previous retreat
5) Expansion fails, but next expansion uses a 40LY cube instead
If there's more than one suitable system at any level, it goes for the closest.

Most factions have so many options under '1' that they never get as far as '2'.

I think a case could be made that swapping '2' and '3' in that list would give a more dynamic BGS and more interesting strategy around expansions, but it wouldn't affect that many factions in practice.


[1] I'm not sure how the extra difficulty in expanding to permit systems fits into this - whether they slot in at 1.5, 2.5 or 4.5 - as there aren't any round here to test with.

 

[Jmanis]

Once out was always out, at least in the past or not ? - and that was the right thing to do.

Like Ian said, has never been "Once out always out".

In fact, first implementation was problematic because it just went with the nearest possible system without considering retreat, then they fixed it to reduce likelihood, according to the rules Ian has listed.

 

[Marcus Machiavelli]

Six player factions in that system! OH MY! Is all of Colonia like this? I have never been...

Edit. Just checked the surrounding area on INARA, what a blood bath! I thought you guys and girls went out there to get away from the fighting in the bubble?

 

[Fresse Blutström]

Thank you for this deep insight Ian

 

[Fresse Blutström]

Hello Marcus,

it's a more challenging BGS game here.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Six player factions in that system! OH MY! Is all of Colonia like this? I have never been...

Dubbuennel nearby has seven player factions and no NPCs. (And there are a few other no-NPC systems with currently fewer PMFs)

Half the factions are PMFs, there is slightly more than one PMF for every two systems, and the system populations are in the 10,000 - 1,000,000 range.

Everyone is generally really careful not to start anything, so there's only been three notable inter-PMF wars (and one of those was fairly limited in scope) since the PMFs arrived ~2 years ago.

 

[Marcus Machiavelli]

Everyone is generally really careful not to start anything, so there's only been three notable inter-PMF wars (and one of those was fairly limited in scope) since the PMFs arrived ~2 years ago.

Thanks Ian, so when two factions have a war, when their influence match, do you talk it out and decide who is going to win?

 

[varonica]

I thought you guys and girls went out there to get away from the fighting in the bubble?

We did.....then you lot followed us!

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Thanks Ian, so when two factions have a war, when their influence match, do you talk it out and decide who is going to win?

I assume there's quite a lot of diplomacy that goes on. There's a Discord server where most of them are represented - as an independent observer I don't know the details, though. A general rule of "your home system is yours and other assets are first come first served" seems to be applied most of the time, and I know there are a few groups who support other factions keeping their home system if they get into trouble with random influence fluctuations.

Also helps that Colonia itself is BGS-locked so it can't be fought over, I expect.

3.3 has helped to stabilise things a lot since wars elsewhere no longer trash influence at home (and then the March 1st patch stopped most of those wars entirely anyway and rebalanced in favour of asset holders a bit more) - it no longer takes as much effort for people to maintain that cooperation.