Expanding on foot gameplay

[Woakes]

Positive Ideas for expanding on-foot gameplay that does not interfere with current gameplay loops and mechanics.
Sorry if I nabbed/paraphrasing an suggestion from another thread but I want to start a thread with no fighting because (I get it) there are a hardcore sim-pilot who think this isn't relevant for them for frontier to spend time and money on - Please go vent in another thread please and stop derailing on-foot conversations.

Ship interiors​

So for examples ship interiors is top on my list, but the ship would have to be stationary, parked up or the acceleration locked off, not that the momentum would be hard to program, but as valve found out in HL2 with physics simulation; in-game run speeds were near-fatal for Gordon Freeman. A slight blip in the change of momentum in the ship would kill the players. The lore pretty much says you need to be in a crash-couch or you the geeforces turns you into a puddle of skin and broken bones.

Salvageable ships are static set-pieces. We have already seen how hacking air-locks works in odyssey settlements.
I am all for your own ship becomes a salvageable wreck with a timer for the ships internal integrity finally falling apart (depending on ship size).
This would alleviate npc's or players griefing player ships to "ship death", but the player can fix the ship enough to limp back to base, (also handy for crash-landing when exploring)

Spoiler: idea board

Stations​

But we also have more internal areas of the existing stations for exploration and combat, surface installations.
Subterranean warehouses and tunnels on planetary installations would be an easy addition.
For the love of god, the ringed space stations!
Missions could be given specific encryption keys that allows them access to parts of the station complexes that a pilot would not have access too.

Refining current Odyssey Gameloops ​

What could be made better? What could be shaved off.

I love conflict zones on-foot, but that whole Triangle of combat thing felt like it never took off for me. There was an effort to make a Battlefield-esque gameplay loop, with Ship support, Surface vehicle support and on-foot support. Going to Frontline Solutions shows you the Combat-zones, but never really give you the option to tackle it other than "on-foot".
There wasn't any SRV's hanging around the play area to take advantage of, so bring your own. But how does that work? You have a transport vessel waiting for you.

You can "fly" into a CZ and get asked to join, but then you got to handle that dialogue and decision whilst flying through the CZ, do you then land and deploy your SRV? what are the targets.
How does one communicate between all the layers of combatees.
All very important when scaling up combat to around surface settlements, ports and space stations.

Integration and mission chaining​

Another set of idea I saw in the other thread which I totally agree with. Integrating Odyssey rewards/mechanics into the main cockpit gameplay, like Naval Missions, rank specific locks.
Have to grab a thing, to talk to person, to get a tip off, to fly somewhere, to track down with the wave scanner on a surface, or a wreck to salveage in a asteroid field, etc etc.

Similar material Rewards that extend outside/interconnect on-foot, in-cockpit specific Crafting/Engineering.
The in-ship crafting fabricator can be tasked for building essential components to replace damaged components for ship repairs of the power generator, hull plating, internal bracing supports.
Turn of, replace / clean / fix, and turn on again.

Tactical Weapons/Utilities.​

Mines, trip-wires, Distraction devices, (stones, comlinks, drones with holographic emitters)

 

[Rat Catcher]

A secondary function for the cutting tool - as a welding tool - would be great.
Welding the only exit door closed behind another player would never get old... (the only practical use I can think of with current game mechanics)

 

[Frankymole]

Spoiler: idea board

View attachment 423242

Is combat penetration damage to occupants mentioned there?
It exists for modules, and is even - reportedly - modelled for module location inside the ship's form, and the direction of projectiles.

 

[thistle]

A secondary function for the cutting tool - as a welding tool - would be great.
Welding the only exit door closed behind another player would never get old... (the only practical use I can think of with current game mechanics)

Short range ant-personnel weapon. Precision limb lopping.

 

[Woakes]

Is combat penetration damage to occupants mentioned there?
It exists for modules, and is even - reportedly - modelled for module location inside the ship's form, and the direction of projectiles.

Oh my, sniping the pilot in the ship?
Surely that’s a ship to ship thing?

That would be both awesome and annoying as *****

Or did you mean on foot shooting at vehicles, like that nice bulbous srv canopy?

I’ve mowed down NPC with my ship (crushing them), I have not tried against a player. So there is some nasty unfair tactics.

What happens you you are EVAing in a wreck, should people be able to target and shoot you or vice versa, jumping out of your ship, landing on the other ship and shooting the pilot through the canopy?

We might have to have a few handwavium game rules, (because the ship to ship analogue doesn’t exist) but thats sort or what is missing in the other threads that get derailed by elite is a cockpit game only crowd.

 

[Coolgroove]

I think Ship Interiors and EVA are a natural continuation for on-foot mechanics, and that is the only part of player's natural interactions with the game world that is missing.

Spoiler: A couple of videos of speculations:

Many possible gameplay ideas for Ship Interiors:

Interiors/Housing in all games

Spoiler: In addition, EVA

Either some work on EVA was done in Odyssey, or it's a convenient byproduct of initial on-foot mechanics implementation

or Candlelight (an outpost near Lantern light) for a more recent example.

The main attraction for me - immersion from playing as a Commander in a ship and not just a Ship, and the gameplay possibilities.

Get up from the chair, walk out of the ship (and walk in), a living quarters with terminals and equipment rack (to switch suit loadouts or weapons in a loadout), a flexible cargo bay-door room with SRV / Fighter bay that changes it's layout and available vehicles for interaction depending on modules fitted, a Power Plant room, and 1-3 (depends on ship size and slots size/possible modules) extra rooms for other modules with possible gameplay / minigames. It should be enough space to put gameplay in and varied enough to give the feeling of actual interior for immersion.

• Immersive interactions with SRV, Fighter, Dropship functionality (just regular cargo bay door)
• Equipment rack to switch suit loadouts without a menu, and maybe pick up weapons directly
• More detailed Nav computer, where one can see all their current exploration and Exo-bio data, various terminals
• Manual modules repairs
• Ability to seal compartments manually to make Life Support last longer
• Interior decorator!

If a more robust implementation, plus:

• Possibility to have a Lab and extra game-play for Exo-bio.
• Workbench to synthesize/switch different types of ammo for on-foot weapons, maybe light/temporary engineering effects.
• Ability to see and interact with a Crew.
• Passenger missions/interactions/extended options.
• Cargo/Smuggling gameplay extension.

NPCs are flying the same ships players do, the same interiors models can be used for gameplay on others ships:

• Explorable derelict / disabled ships and wrecks
• Rescue (repairs, extraction, passengers)
• Data theft, sabotage (similar mechanics as with data ports and terminals in on-foot settlements)
• Boarding action
• Explore/Find/Deliver bits and pieces of Lore, similar to INRA bases

But for that ^ EVA is necessary, simply because - How much less cool would it be, if there was no "flying through the maelstrom" and you would teleport with "Black screen <-> Blue circle" to a titan's thermal vent? EVA is essential for a complete 'Commander in space' experience, just as walking on planets is essential for on-foot experience.

• Airlock access. Walk inside a ship (magic boots) up to an Airlock, then EVA outside the ship.
• Cut in mechanics, similar to Maverick suit on-foot.
• Ship Hull repairs (in case of dreaming way too big)

I would love if something like that would be released in parts. Ship Interiors models can be done by manufacturer, since ships on one and the same manufacturer could be very similar (same) inside, and with only difference of available extra space/rooms. Each could be released similar to how new ships are released today, with more and more gameplay options with each release.

When the core of it is done, it can be used for new things:

• Station concourses models/textures, Fleet Carriers, and interiors - could be a good base for more interiors in stations, more features for Fleet Carriers.
• Gameplay mechanics and overall development base of interiors/EVA can be used for more gameplay in Stations/FCs, or even with new assets for Thargoid, Guardian structures, explorable/playable ancient stations, etc.
• Mega-ships, maybe even Generation ships.
• Events / Missions / Encounters of being boarded by Thargoids, Thargoid-zombies, Guardians AI... with their gameplay.

Yes, something like that could add a lot of gameplay value and most definitely can captivate imagination for a very enjoyable experience

 

[Coolgroove]

Spoiler: idea board

Love the board, fantastic!

But we also have more internal areas of the existing stations for exploration and combat, surface installations.
Subterranean warehouses and tunnels on planetary installations would be an easy addition.

Yes, stations need action, not just a static concourse place. Even if only the same interactions as in settlements - would be huge.
Subterranean complexes are also very nice, even if only as many 'concourses' connected by elevators, could be lots of fun.

For the love of god, the ringed space stations!
Missions could be given specific encryption keys that allows them access to parts of the station complexes that a pilot would not have access too.

If players always instanced solo/wing in these places, as a way to limit the load - instancing players with specific section access could be good, but I'm not sure as it goes against the open nature of Elite world. But if it is akin to a security access in settlements, and everybody with the clearance can enter (non-solo instancing) - could also be very fun.

Integration and mission chaining​

Another set of idea I saw in the other thread which I totally agree with. Integrating Odyssey rewards/mechanics into the main cockpit gameplay, like Naval Missions, rank specific locks.
Have to grab a thing, to talk to person, to get a tip off, to fly somewhere, to track down with the wave scanner on a surface, or a wreck to salveage in a asteroid field, etc etc.

Similar material Rewards that extend outside/interconnect on-foot, in-cockpit specific Crafting/Engineering.
The in-ship crafting fabricator can be tasked for building essential components to replace damaged components for ship repairs of the power generator, hull plating, internal bracing supports.
Turn of, replace / clean / fix, and turn on again.

Yes, ohh, yes, and only more yes.
Especially after the mini-chain for Thargoid spires - yes. Even if not as directly connected by the story, and only loosely with "hey, tnx for the data delivery, want to help us find something -> procurement mission" or any other mechanic to mechanic with the only connection in a form of the same NPC player completes and then starts missions with.

Tactical Weapons/Utilities.​

Mines, trip-wires, Distraction devices, (stones, comlinks, drones with holographic emitters)

And non-lethal options, pls

 

[Coolgroove]

What happens you you are EVAing in a wreck, should people be able to target and shoot you

Target - yes, why not. But various auto-aim of ship guns - most likely no, the target could be way too small

landing on the other ship and shooting the pilot through the canopy?

If canopy is broken and no shields - yes, could be fun, hehe. Or another way to break a canopy, hehe, not sure how efficient it's going to be tho

 

[heathenlamb]

Any onfoot interior development for ships, would require proper on foot VR to be implemented .

... so yep ... proper on foot VR.

 

[Coolgroove]

Any onfoot interior development for ships, would require proper on foot VR to be implemented .

... so yep ... proper on foot VR.

Proper VR EVA would be amazing! as well as in other places. Maximum immersion!

 

[Woakes]

There was a VR game called Star-shelter and it's in Subnautica, in space and in zero-g.
The movement system was genius. First of you could only move by grabbing onto things and propelling yourself by push away.
Then you get a thruster pack that works from the wrist, so wherever you pointed a hand and tapped the thruster button, you'd got a burst of momentum in that direction.

Sort of reminded me of the official concept art stuff.

 

[ꝁestrel]

Refining current Odyssey Gameloops
What could be made better? What could be shaved off.

We really need more things to do on planets outside of the bubble. The only reason to disembark while exploring is to do a quick exobiology scan and then hop back in your ship/vehicle. The possibilities are quite vast though:

• Topographical scanning and soil sampling to map discrete planet sectors and/or find unique land features. All sold as exploration data.
• Deploying small ephemeral mobile resource gathering structures to passively gather resources for a short period of time. The structures would require resources to manufacture and deploy.
• These mobile structures could also include soil sampling and atmosphere sampling that could be later sold as exploration data.
• More natural land features that can be interacted with. For example, instead of human build structures (large buildings) we could have above ground cave systems that require on-foot tools to burrow through and explore.

 

[heathenlamb]

We really need more things to do on planets outside of the bubble. The only reason to disembark while exploring is to do a quick exobiology scan and then hop back in your ship/vehicle. The possibilities are quite vast though:

• Topographical scanning and soil sampling to map discrete planet sectors and/or find unique land features. All sold as exploration data.
• Deploying small ephemeral mobile resource gathering structures to passively gather resources for a short period of time. The structures would require resources to manufacture and deploy.
• These mobile structures could also include soil sampling and atmosphere sampling that could be later sold as exploration data.
• More natural land features that can be interacted with. For example, instead of human build structures (large buildings) we could have above ground cave systems that require on-foot tools to burrow through and explore.

Yeah ... I guess the REALLY obvious thing is, if we are adding ship interiors would be to add cave interiors, underground cave systems etc. as you suggested above. The stark reality is 90% of planets in the galaxy would be lifeless boring rocks.

Perhaps vast oceans or lakes with an "Aqua" suit upgrade. Do some Tomb Raider'esque exploring.

 

[heathenlamb]

There was a VR game called Star-shelter and it's in Subnautica, in space and in zero-g.
The movement system was genius. First of you could only move by grabbing onto things and propelling yourself by push away.
Then you get a thruster pack that works from the wrist, so wherever you pointed a hand and tapped the thruster button, you'd got a burst of momentum in that direction.

Sort of reminded me of the official concept art stuff.

On foot VR is literally the only upgrade I want from ED. I've played hundreds of hours of ED over the last decade, all in VR. I simply can't play it any other way. I tried the Odyssey VR compromises and immediately just gave up on it. For now, it's cockpits only for me. Anyway ... I don't want to hijack this thread with yet another VR lamenting rant haha .

 

[Rat Catcher]

The movement system was genius. First of you could only move by grabbing onto things and propelling yourself by push away.
Then you get a thruster pack that works from the wrist, so wherever you pointed a hand and tapped the thruster button, you'd got a burst of momentum in that direction.

Totally off-topic, I know, but the game Lone Echo (Oculus / Meta only) was exactly that, all zero-G, grab & Push or use wrist thrusters, it is how I got my VR legs all those years ago, took about 2 weeks of playing each night to finally not get nauseous, absolutely brilliant game!

 

[Coolgroove]

Subterranean warehouses and tunnels on planetary installations would be an easy addition.

Sometime ago there were mentions how caves are either not possible or very hard to do with current planetary tech.

I wonder if subterranean structures can provide an alterative way to get some of that caves-experience - what if caves don't have a natural surface entrance and use archeological/scientific installations to get into underground cave system?

Maybe a ship module that can deploy such a structure/device/elevator. Fleet Carrier probably makes more sense - scan the surface for possible entry points, take materials for that 'elevator' construction from a cargo hold and launch it (deploy) to the surface.

Underground can have various geological/biological data gathering gameplay.

 

[ꝁestrel]

Sometime ago there were mentions how caves are either not possible or very hard to do with current planetary tech.

I wonder if subterranean structures can provide an alterative way to get some of that caves-experience - what if caves don't have a natural surface entrance and use archeological/scientific installations to get into underground cave system?

Maybe a ship module that can deploy such a structure/device/elevator. Fleet Carrier probably makes more sense - scan the surface for possible entry points, take materials for that 'elevator' construction from a cargo hold and launch it (deploy) to the surface.

Underground can have various geological/biological data gathering gameplay.

I'd be satisfied above surface cave systems similar to Thargoid surface sites:

They flowed quite naturally with the terrain system. Smoothly merging them with mountain systems might be possible.

 

[heathenlamb]

Totally off-topic, I know, but the game Lone Echo (Oculus / Meta only) was exactly that, all zero-G, grab & Push or use wrist thrusters, it is how I got my VR legs all those years ago, took about 2 weeks of playing each night to finally not get nauseous, absolutely brilliant game!

Oh man ... great game ... Space Junkies was another one ahead of it's time. Zero G backpack thruster combat in space arenas. Shame it never really took off, was exceptionally well made.

 

[PilotB]

What we need is an adjustment to the crime system so that if you do illegal missions on completion the faction pays off some of your fines or bounties.

We need combo weapons if we're going to keep the shields and suits have different resistances then we should have combi guns not weapon swapping. Weapon swapping feels bad. It works on ships because you've got fire groups so give us weapons that let us have both types of damage on our finger tips.

Station interiors need to become optional they're a waste of time and effort.

We need large and medium ships to gain multiple embarcation points and to be able to enter and exit ships on the side facing the station entrance. It's a magical blue circle allow more doors.

Make the run to the apex taxi optional. It's a useless waste of time. The 2 outer elevators could put you straight into the cockpit the 2 inner elevators could allow those that want to walk in the docking bay the ability to do so.

Bars need seats by the windows so we can sit and watch the world go by.

We need the ability to carry cargo containers to the SRV on foot.

We need an enhanced SRV bay that also includes a surface scanner to reduce the Odyssey fitting tax.

Horizons sites need interiors added.

Abandonned settlements need interiors added.

We need more overlap for mission rewards between on foot and in ship so they don't feel so side by side.

Pick one engineering system and make sure it's not the Odyssey one for both ships and suits.

 

[aRJay]

What we need is an adjustment to the crime system so that if you do illegal missions on completion the faction pays off some of your fines or bounties.

Why surely the reason they hired someone like us is so we were deniable if caught or detected?

We need combo weapons if we're going to keep the shields and suits have different resistances then we should have combi guns not weapon swapping. Weapon swapping feels bad. It works on ships because you've got fire groups so give us weapons that let us have both types of damage on our finger tips.

Sounds like power creep to be honest.

Station interiors need to become optional they're a waste of time and effort.

Optional how and a waste of whose time and effort?

We need large and medium ships to gain multiple embarcation points and to be able to enter and exit ships on the side facing the station entrance. It's a magical blue circle allow more doors.

In most cases the magical blue circle is closely associated with the exit modelled on the ship so while convenient for those in a hurry it wouldn’t be popular with those that like immersion.

Make the run to the apex taxi optional. It's a useless waste of time. The 2 outer elevators could put you straight into the cockpit the 2 inner elevators could allow those that want to walk in the docking bay the ability to do so.

No.

Bars need seats by the windows so we can sit and watch the world go by.

Yes.

We need the ability to carry cargo containers to the SRV on foot.

Something the size of a container with the inertia of a tonne of mass inside it is probably impossible to move on foot except maybe by rolling.

We need an enhanced SRV bay that also includes a surface scanner to reduce the Odyssey fitting tax.

Huh?

Horizons sites need interiors added.

Abandonned settlements need interiors added.

We need more overlap for mission rewards between on foot and in ship so they don't feel so side by side.

We need more non mission play in Odyssey.

Pick one engineering system and make sure it's not the Odyssey one for both ships and suits.

No.