exploration is unrealistic

[anumist]

wouldnt you think in 3300, human colonized a lot of systems....

a lot of people have the money to finally own a ship , and flies on their own.

now, id prefer to compare this to elite 2: frontier, because it tooks several days just to travel to the neighbor system....
even in elite 2, you could be able to go on your ways above the frontiers of human space....

and u'd see the bodies by yourself..

wouldnt u think thousands of people, saw that system before you ?

it treats you like you're the only person who's able to give them the systems infos.

to me that one unecessary and unrealistic point of that game.

 

[MrFuddyDuddy]

Dude your preaching to the choir, this is the concept of every single game ever made. You are the only person who can accomplish anything, this isn't a new concept just look at any RPG.

 

[777Driver]

Your topic makes no sense at all... Am sober and really trying to understand you.

Here's a few things to consider.

1. FSD's are relatively new hence why populated space is huge but not extending out thousands of light years.

2. Undiscovered is only undiscovered to 'your' ships computer, it doesn't mean nobody has been there before.

 

[Carro]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suspension_of_disbelief

 

[lefty1117]

wouldnt you think in 3300, human colonized a lot of systems....

a lot of people have the money to finally own a ship , and flies on their own.

now, id prefer to compare this to elite 2: frontier, because it tooks several days just to travel to the neighbor system....
even in elite 2, you could be able to go on your ways above the frontiers of human space....

and u'd see the bodies by yourself..

wouldnt u think thousands of people, saw that system before you ?

it treats you like you're the only person who's able to give them the systems infos.

to me that one unecessary and unrealistic point of that game.

Nah just think of each successive turn-in of the data as more detail, filling in the gaps, etc. Sort of like how, even though we've sent plenty of probes to Mars, we continue to do so because there's always a little more science to be done, another gap in knowledge to fill. Just because someone has already made the trip there doesn't mean it shouldn't be done again and that there's nothing left to learn. That, I think, is a way you can look at it and sort of have it make sense in the ED context. Of course, when I say "data" it's very abstracted by what we see in the game, but you understand what I'm getting at.

 

[Morbad]

Right now, I've seen about 5,000 systems.

No one else has seen 3,000 of them, ever.

 

[Sysmon]

And just because you visited a system it doesn't mean you have learned all about it, as Lefty is saying above.

Try to immerse yourself a bit, use your imagination to see how such situation as we are seeing could happen. It's not that hard.

S

 

[Iskariot]

Also... It's a game.
People, and I am people too , like to discover stuff for themselves.
You have the option to buy system data of many systems as an alternative.

I think FD did the right thing here.
Some system data is known to you, but some systems you will have to explore yourself to see what is in it.
I love it.
It would have been terrible if every system in human occupied space and thousands in a wider sphere were known to me. It would have killed a lot of the fun for me.

 

[Vandaahl]

So you want people to earn something when they enter a system first time, and only then, right? Every other system scanned once yields nothing?

Think about it. In 2 years people will have to travel 4000 ly (2000 one way and 2000 back) before they'll earn the first credits. THAT would be stupid.

 

[rightsideupsidedown]

Your topic makes no sense at all... Am sober and really trying to understand you.

HAHA... had my giggles for the day. Thankyou good sir.

There were many people who bought Elite with the intentions of exploring an interesting galaxy and it seems to me that space is actually pretty boring and empty. To counter that I would also say that many people probably jumped into exploring far before that content had been finished or developed and expected more. Even if more is implemented explorers will now have to go back out and discover it again. I think a Camera limpet, temperature sensors, gravitational sensors and other goodies would make exploring more interesting.

It seemed there was a question of realism versus fiction when discussing the possibility of implementing thargoids. That being said finding more alien artifacts types or their historical diaries bits and pieces in deep space was a topic of debate. They have to commit to either a realistic empty space or introduce "fictional" elements like multiple alien races/extinct advanced human civilizations etc. to give explorers something else to find. Some people find the ideas of those things to be immersion breaking.

I happen to think it would be interesting for explorers to be able to find bits and pieces and meet up to committee the combination/sharing of what they found to uncover backstory on "fictional" races/civilizations/creatures. I want to be able to fly to the museum the explorer's have been creating and pay credits to read and view the things/stories they have discovered. Maybe there's missing pieces still and I can decide to ditch trading for a while and go out to help look for the missing chapters. This would probably have to tie into planetary landings so it is classified as advanced content development so I can totally understand why players initially jumping into Elite to explore were met with a partially developed sub-structure.

The platform is there but whether it will happen or not I'm unsure.

 

[jacozilla]

You assume that by 3301 the humanity as shown in game could have all explored the unexplored parts we players are currently finding as 'first discoverers' - and hence why you find it hard to believe.

Technology and Will don't always go together. In the 1970s, people of that time were absolutely sure we would be living on the moon and have at least a small colony on Mars by now. And the reality is we could have, but didnt - due to loss of motivation and focus on internal issues.

i dont pretend to know the Elite lore at all, but as a newcomer - what I see is huge strife between the bubble of space that the Pledge powers occupy. So obviously even if someone could have explored all those juicy undiscovered systems before, they did not and instead focused inwards.

Isolationism is not exactly a new concept to just about any major country on earth - maybe that was what the period was between whenever last elite game took place and now.

second - the more comical answer but just as reasonable alternative explantion is that like in the age of discovery of the new world during and after the 14th-15th century, it was as much greed and finances that caused the wave of explorers to go forth.

and as we all know, exploration is one of the lowest if not the lowest paid pursuits in the Elite meta of 3301.

maybe the reason no one explored much before and left all those undiscovered systems is because they were all busy grinding to make their megacreds in trade, killing pirates, etc

 

[Monk]

Playing video games is considered by many, though incorrectly, to be a stupid activity.

This is actually the part of exploration that really ties in with everything else. The more commanders that visit and explore a system, the more likely it is to be noticed and later populated by a minor faction in expansion. Of course, this matters little for systems more than 50ly off the border of populated space, but there is a purpose to everything appearing unknown (even if other CMDRs were there) as it encourages players to explore, get the money and make the system more relevant to civilization.

 

[Whiterose]

99.99999% of all people are too involved with the bubble to even think of what is out there. Exploration isn't stupid. Staying in the same place is.

 

[Arjin]

Playing video games is considered by many, though incorrectly, to be a stupid activity.

Funny how the ignorant herd mentality is still so prevalent in today's age, social programming at it's best.


Since I started playing ED my daughters are more into space/astronomy more than ever, we go out with the telescope 3-4 times a week now, used to be 1,2 times a month now they can't get enough

 

[Sysmon]

99.99999% of all people are too involved with the bubble to even think of what is out there. Exploration isn't stupid. Staying in the same place is.

how many of us actually wants Planetary Landings,
just to be able to head into the nearest habitable gravity well,

and NEVER LEAVE

S

 

[PavelKCZ]

wouldnt you think in 3300, human colonized a lot of systems....

a lot of people have the money to finally own a ship , and flies on their own.

now, id prefer to compare this to elite 2: frontier, because it tooks several days just to travel to the neighbor system....
even in elite 2, you could be able to go on your ways above the frontiers of human space....

and u'd see the bodies by yourself..

wouldnt u think thousands of people, saw that system before you ?

it treats you like you're the only person who's able to give them the systems infos.

to me that one unecessary and unrealistic point of that game.

Hmm, there is a difference (both in Cr amount and in "fame") between the systems that was already seen by someone else and systems you visited as a first Explorer. If you will find a system where no one was before, your name will be in the Galaxy map. Mostly, except some minor bugs...

Of course, the whole exploring needs some serious work and polishing, but it is another story.

 

[Lord_Crazy]

wouldnt you think in 3300, human colonized a lot of systems....

Yep. That's what happened in the game.

a lot of people have the money to finally own a ship , and flies on their own.

Sure. Flying to a system is one thing. Finding a suitable system to sustain settlement, making it worthy, and then being able to afford it is another thing.

wouldnt u think thousands of people, saw that system before you ?

That is right. But there are billions of systems out there, enough to get explorers busy more than a millennium. Beside, that does not mean everyone is going to scan every visited system. Even though, additional data is always valuable, as one-time-only measure can be inaccurate, biased and so on. Finally, the very first scan submitted to the pilot federation gets an extra reward.


So I am sorry I disagree with the overstatement of the title: exploration is not stupid.

 

[nexxo]

You assume that by 3301 the humanity as shown in game could have all explored the unexplored parts we players are currently finding as 'first discoverers' - and hence why you find it hard to believe.

Technology and Will don't always go together. In the 1970s, people of that time were absolutely sure we would be living on the moon and have at least a small colony on Mars by now. And the reality is we could have, but didnt - due to loss of motivation and focus on internal issues.

i dont pretend to know the Elite lore at all, but as a newcomer - what I see is huge strife between the bubble of space that the Pledge powers occupy. So obviously even if someone could have explored all those juicy undiscovered systems before, they did not and instead focused inwards.

Isolationism is not exactly a new concept to just about any major country on earth - maybe that was what the period was between whenever last elite game took place and now.

second - the more comical answer but just as reasonable alternative explantion is that like in the age of discovery of the new world during and after the 14th-15th century, it was as much greed and finances that caused the wave of explorers to go forth.

and as we all know, exploration is one of the lowest if not the lowest paid pursuits in the Elite meta of 3301.

maybe the reason no one explored much before and left all those undiscovered systems is because they were all busy grinding to make their megacreds in trade, killing pirates, etc

Moreover, technology and technology don't always go together. In the 1970's people assumed that in 30 years we would have a moon base and perhaps a Mars base. Why? Because we just put a man on the moon is why. We had the technology. Obviously in 30 years that technology would make the same progress that, say, air travel had made, no?
-
Except that it didn't. In 50 years we went from Wilbur and Orville Wright's Kitty Hawk to jet airliners. But in the same period, spacecraft are essentially unchanged; we're still visiting ISS with Soyuz spacecraft based on a 1967 design.
-
And a base? Well, a base requires a self-supporting closed ecosystem. We haven't quite managed to crack that nut yet; the longest try is 15 months (Biosphere 2) which ended prematurely as oxygen dropped, CO2 levels fluctuated wildly, animals and insects died uncontrollably and plant life balance went out of whack. Meanwhile the crew developed psychological problems and, no doubt affected by being cooped up together, oxygen shortage as well as hunger (food production was unreliable) turned on each other in petty squabbles. Turns out you need a lot of different technologies to build a moon base. Getting there is the easy bit.

 

[Schmack]

The reason only human players discover new systems is because NPCs are too smart to waste weeks charging and turning and scanning for a few credits and some eye candy.

 

[Oopsie Daisy]

HAHA... had my giggles for the day. Thankyou good sir.

There were many people who bought Elite with the intentions of exploring an interesting galaxy and it seems to me that space is actually pretty boring and empty. To counter that I would also say that many people probably jumped into exploring far before that content had been finished or developed and expected more. Even if more is implemented explorers will now have to go back out and discover it again. I think a Camera limpet, temperature sensors, gravitational sensors and other goodies would make exploring more interesting.

It seemed there was a question of realism versus fiction when discussing the possibility of implementing thargoids. That being said finding more alien artifacts types or their historical diaries bits and pieces in deep space was a topic of debate. They have to commit to either a realistic empty space or introduce "fictional" elements like multiple alien races/extinct advanced human civilizations etc. to give explorers something else to find. Some people find the ideas of those things to be immersion breaking.

I happen to think it would be interesting for explorers to be able to find bits and pieces and meet up to committee the combination/sharing of what they found to uncover backstory on "fictional" races/civilizations/creatures. I want to be able to fly to the museum the explorer's have been creating and pay credits to read and view the things/stories they have discovered. Maybe there's missing pieces still and I can decide to ditch trading for a while and go out to help look for the missing chapters. This would probably have to tie into planetary landings so it is classified as advanced content development so I can totally understand why players initially jumping into Elite to explore were met with a partially developed sub-structure.

The platform is there but whether it will happen or not I'm unsure.

I like your idea of camera limpets and special sensors. I thought the way Eve did it was cool. Right now in ED, exploration is way too easy. People flit from system to system in a race to get to some Great Destination and all they have to do on the way is "honk" with an ADS.