Exploration limits, newbie question

[Neofit]

Hi,

I've started playng a few days ago. I've read someone from the dev team saying that only 0.077% of the galaxy had been explored so far. I've been reading a bit about exploration, and I am confused about one thing in particular. Are NPCs building new stations on the outskirts? Because if humanity isn't expanding, and if it now takes weeks and months to get to a new system, that's basically it, it is going to stop at 0.078-0.079% . No?

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

I'm not sure what FDev considers an explored system, I guess any system that was visited and whose data was sold, no matter the level of scan.

Anyway, the figure will change, but not by much.
A system mustn't be colonized in order to be explored, on the other hand 400 billion systems are simply too much, the vast majority of them will remain unexplored (unvisited) forever.

 

[mtt9999 [Parabolus]]

That's why it is great to do a detailed scan of system bodies. That way you make your literal mark on the galaxy. It's so cool to be 45,000ly from Sol and enter a system and see another Cmdr name on the system map.

 

[Neofit]

I didn't mean thought a system had to be colonized. But people have to come back to civilization after a trip. If the sphere of human presence doesn't move, people won't be able to fly much farther after a certain point, no?

 

[iain666]

If you've only been playing for a few days then you might not yet have discovered the Fuel Scoop and AFMU (and more recently hull repair limpets).

If you're careful you can spend months away from the bubble - there are some systems that are currently unreachable because it is impossible to get that much jump range but almost every star in the galaxy can be visited.

I spent about 20 months circumnavigating the galaxy sticking to the edges all the way round (thirty-something thousand systems and about half a million light years travelled) - and I am far from setting any kind of single trip endurance or distance records with that...

It would still require the game to be available for some tens of millennia for every system to be visited.

 

[Sapyx]

The sheer size of the Galaxy is only part of the problem; the other side of the equation is the relatively small number of players doing the exploring. NPCs don't explore, so the only exploration that happens is caused by CMDRs.

You have to travel about 1000 LYs out and travel away from the "tourist routes" to scenic or interesting locations (like nebulae) to get a reasonable chance of finding Untagged or partially Untagged systems. But it only takes from a day to a week to get out that far (depending on your jump range and on how much of a rush you are in). Many players seeking Tags jump over this already-explored space as quickly as possible, to get out into fresh unexplored regions.

But to more directly address the question: there is currently no mechanism for automated NPC-generated colonization. Every new colony that is created has to be hand-placed by the Devs. There are a few deep-space colonies and outposts that have been founded; the largest and most remote of these is the Colonia region, a "mini-bubble" of space about 100 LY across and about 25,000 LYs away towards the Galactic Core, where there are several dozen planets colonized and new ones popping up every month. There are a couple dozen other outposts scattered around, mostly in nearby nebulae and along the pathway between Sol and Colonia.

The Colonia region offers an excellent example of the "large galaxy vs small number of CMDRs" equation. Inside the Colonia Bubble itself is thoroughly explored by now, but you only have to go a couple of jumps (about 100 LYs) away from Colonia to find Untagged systems. Being closer to the Core, star density is much higher there than it is near Sol, and the number of players flying around Colonia is much smaller than there is around the Bubble, so the systematic exploration rate around there is slower.

Another big contributor to the relatively low exploration rate, in my opinion, is the lack of any systematic co-ordination of exploration, either in-game (via an Explorer's Union and/or exploration missions) or out-of-game. Everyone is basically doing their own thing, exploring wherever they feel like exploring. This means there's lots of doubling-up of some regions while other regions of the galaxy remain completely untouched.

TLDR: the distance to Unexplored space is not the main reason why it remains Unexplored.

 

[Manticore]

Most of the galaxy is uninhabited (as far as we know and we don't really know where the 'goid critters live). Exploration is really about getting there and the journey; what you find along the way (also tagging undiscovered systems with your Cmdr name).

I explore mainly so I would recommend:

Having the credits and insurance to fit out a ship with a decent (and probably engineered) jump range. That way getting there will be faster (also n-stars but you should carry an AFMU to cope with FSD integrity degradation).

An ADS is a must of course.

Have fun.

 

[iain666]

Another big contributor to the relatively low exploration rate, in my opinion, is the lack of any systematic co-ordination of exploration, either in-game (via an Explorer's Union and/or exploration missions) or out-of-game. Everyone is basically doing their own thing, exploring wherever they feel like exploring. This means there's lots of doubling-up of some regions while other regions of the galaxy remain completely untouched.

Stars with coordinates known to EDSM:

There's not a lot of doubling up - even in the well travelled areas seeing tags is rare any distance from the bubble or other areas where all the paths converge.

EDSM only has the data from 1,157 commanders so there's a lot of exploring going on it doesn't know about - and the areas that are completely untouched still aren't all that big.

This is basically a big number problem. If every Elite player who is at all interested in exploring where to be marshalled into a concerted group effort to raise the percentage of the galaxy explored progress would still be incredibly slow.

 

[Major Klutz]

Hi, I've started playng a few days ago. I've read someone from the dev team saying that only 0.077% of the galaxy had been explored so far. I've been reading a bit about exploration, and I am confused about one thing in particular. Are NPCs building new stations on the outskirts? Because if humanity isn't expanding, and if it now takes weeks and months to get to a new system, that's basically it, it is going to stop at 0.078-0.079% . No?

I believe that statistic is based on the EDSM database and it's simply the number of stars that players have visited or passed through vs the total number of stars in the Galaxy.
In the map posted by iain666 above, the white pixels represent stars that other players have cataloged, the colored lines show his own travels over different time periods.
All of those pixels represent only 0.077% of the stars in the Galaxy. That map gives a false impression though because the resolution is not high enough to show the space between stars. The space of one pixel might contain thousands or hundreds of thousands of stars depending on the region.

There are new stations that are periodically being constructed in deep space locations, usually in high traffic areas. You can see a map of those stations here...

It doesn't take weeks or months to get to a new system. As you can see from my own travel map here... or my YouTube videos here...
An average player with a ship that has a decent jump range can get to the Colonia area in a few days or a week, and will likely pass through hundreds of previously undiscovered systems along the way.
A dedicated player can take a ship with a mediocre jump range to the opposite side of the Galaxy in a couple of days.

You can travel these distances with a fuel scoop which allows you to collect fuel along the way. As long as you're careful and don't blow up your ship, all you need is fuel to keep going indefinitely. There are players who have been away from occupied space for over a year.

You may want to do some research into upgrading your ship with improved modules or additional modules that you may not be aware of.
A good resource for that is https://coriolis.edcd.io/ as well as this forum.

 

[marx]

You have to travel about 1000 LYs out and travel away from the "tourist routes" to scenic or interesting locations (like nebulae) to get a reasonable chance of finding Untagged or partially Untagged systems. But it only takes from a day to a week to get out that far (depending on your jump range and on how much of a rush you are in). Many players seeking Tags jump over this already-explored space as quickly as possible, to get out into fresh unexplored regions.

Sorry, but I think you accidentally made a mistake here, which could mislead a beginner, with your "a day to a week" comment. If we're talking about going 1,000 ly out - a good estimate for where you're likely to start seeing unexplored systems, assuming you headed in a less popular direction - then you can do that under an hour, even in an unengineered ship. Lots of ships can reach a 35 ly jump range, and even then, going that distance would take ~30 jumps, which would take half an hour if the Commander isn't stopping to scan anything.
If you're talking about going to Colonia, then with the help of neutron stars and a modded FSD, getting there could take a day to a week in real time, depending on how much time per day the player spends in-game. (Which is why I prefer to say "x hours of playtime" instead.)

Anyway, back to the original point: there's also that whenever there are new stations, they "pop into" existence, usually as a fully-fledged station, or as an under-construction model that has some services missing. There's no mechanic for NPCs constructing and over time finishing a station... yet? The addition of damaged and repairing stations in 2.4 (related to Thargoid attacks) offers some potential here, as the same mechanic could (and probably will) later be extended to allow players to help newly-constructed stations to grow. In my opinion, even just that would still be better than the usual "oh yeah, there's suddenly a fully built asteroid base near that nebula".

Also, as Major Klutz said, the EDSM image is misleading in this small size. If you check it in depth, you'll see that there are still plenty of areas in the galaxy where only a handful of Commanders have zipped through, and where you could fly and not see any other "lines" within even a thousand lightyears.

 

[iain666]

Also, as Major Klutz said, the EDSM image is misleading in this small size. If you check it in depth, you'll see that there are still plenty of areas in the galaxy where only a handful of Commanders have zipped through, and where you could fly and not see any other "lines" within even a thousand lightyears.

Zooming in on a couple of 10kly squares in the least travelled areas and there's still a reasonable amount of traffic - and not many places you can be a kly from where anyone's been before

Seeing anyone else's tags in these areas remains incredibly rare though.

 

[mtt9999 [Parabolus]]

Keep in mind, the map is 2d, space is 3d with a Z coordinate too. At a minimum it is 2000ly high, in the core closer to 5,500ly. I hardly ever see a tag below 1000ly

 

[Major Klutz]

... - then you can do that under an hour, even in an unengineered ship. Lots of ships can reach a 35 ly jump range, and even then, going that distance would take ~30 jumps, which would take half an hour if the Commander isn't stopping to scan anything.
...

To reinforce that point, here are some things you might not know ...
The FSD takes 10 seconds to cool down after a jump, it takes 15 seconds to charge followed by a 5 second countdown and then you spend about 14 seconds in hyperspace.
So the quickest time between jumps is ~44 seconds, give or take a second for timing errors and internet lag.

Traveling at at a leisurely rate without rushing and without stopping to scan anything, I believe most players can easily manage 60 seconds between jumps, including fuel scooping.

So a typical starter exploration ship with a 30ly jump range can easily travel 30ly per minute or (30*60ly) 1,800ly per hour.
A high end well engineered ship can jump 60ly or 3,600ly per hour.

Well practiced buckyball racers can do better than 80 jumps per hour and depending on the ship can usually exceed 5Kly per hour.

 

[marx]

@ iain666: Fair enough, I overestimated it. 500 ly should still hold true though, especially if you consider the 3D map. By the way, if memory serves, the human bubble should fit within a sphere of that radius (perhaps even diameter?) quite nicely.

 

[iain666]

Yeah, some of those little holes are about bubble sized.

Explorers have a different sense of scale

 

[Rudi Raumkraut]

The sheer size of the Galaxy is only part of the problem

This is basically a big number problem. .

Why do people always talk about this as a "problem" ?

Maybe a too philisophic question and of course off topic, but why do people always want to "complete" something ? And dont come up with this OCD nonsense

For me its part of the attraction of ED that it never will be "solved" and its the same reason why I'm so attracted by that "space science stuff" in RL which is luckily too big for us to be completely understandable (at least for now).
This offers room for dreams and wonders!
And thats why I old fart still play games

 

[iain666]

I meant problem in the sense of puzzle or maths question, not in the sense of a bad thing.

 

[Rudi Raumkraut]

I meant problem in the sense of puzzle or maths question, not in the sense of a bad thing.

Ok.
my babbling actually wasnt adressed at you two quoted but to mankind in general

 

[iain666]

Ok.
my babbling actually wasnt adressed at you two quoted but to mankind in general

I can't answer for the rest of them...