Exploration Question for Explorers and Fuel Scooping

khaos526

khaos526
So I've done exploration past the core before Horizons was out and have done it after Engineers with a fully engineered ship (ASPx).

Assuming people filter out scoopable stars (and "Other" for things like Black holes, Neutron stars, etc)

My question is do people when using their fuel scoops tend to scoop at every star they can and top off their tanks? Or do they fly until their tanks are almost empty and do one large scoop at that point?

I know you have a little bit better FSD range when on a empty tank, but don't think it's really enough to make much of a difference over the long run.

I normally just top off at every star and while scooping I check the systems map to see if there's anything to look for, but just curious if there's any benefit of one method over another or not?
 

CMDR ANCALAGON

C
I scoop every star so as not to have need to slow down much. I also don't filter for specific star types, so I try not to let the tank get too low (<2 jumps worth).

I don't always top off completely, but it is usually pretty close.

I know most don't like the orbital lines (especially how they muck up beautiful pics) but I leave mine on when jumping amd onpy turn them off if I am going to explore around a system. It helps with maximizing scooping without entering the exclusion zone. I just get as close as I can to the line a circle the star without slowing down. With my Anaconda, I now scoop upside down since the bridge is so high on the ship.

Effectively, I barrell roll in and out of scooping, which is the actually the l337 way to perform the task.
 

goemon

goemon
depends on ship in my case (fuelscoop speed - fsd size relation). conda, orca, AspE: top up every jump if possible, and in most cases fit an undersized fueltank (16T - orca, AspE, 3,2 jumps). if i have no passengers and therefor more internal moduls free, i also reeduce the condas tank from 32T (4 jumps) to 24T (3 jumps).

DBE: scoop when only 1-2 jumps are left in the tank, while scanning the scar - if i don't find a star anyways interesting before. scoop speed of a DBE isn't fast enough in most cases to top up fully while going around the star to the next jump. with its amazing jumprange that often means i have to stop only once on a 1000 ly plot, before i anyway need to replot (which i do while scooping). same on DBS.

dolphin, courier and cmkIV depends on whether i have filtered for scoopables or not. if not, i top up every jump.

i think those are all ships i have flown on (mostly shorter) exploration trips since the new arrival mechanic and filtering for scoopables.

khaos526 said:
I know you have a little bit better FSD range when on a empty tank, but don't think it's really enough to make much of a difference over the long run.
Click to expand...

route plotter doesn't take your current fuel into account, so the only way to get a higher plotted jumprange via less fuel is fitting smaller tanks.

jumping on fumes requires to manually plot a jump.
 

Major Klutz

Major Klutz
It depends on the ship.

In my DBE, I would make 5 jumps before refueling.
My logic for this ...
Jumps with a less than full tank are more fuel efficient. The more jumps you make with a lighter load, the less fuel you use overall, therefore the less fuel you have to scoop overall.
It takes time to ramp up your scooping rate, ramp up as you move closer, you spend some time at max rate and then ramp down as you exit.
The more often you do this, the more time you spend at sub optimal scooping rate.

So if you scoop less often, you'll spend more time at your max scooping rate, you'll need less fuel and therefore spend less time scooping overall.
This is especially true in the DBE due to it's relatively small scoop. If you scooped at every star, you would spend a lot more time scooping.

Mathematically, it should be true for all ships as well, but as you get to larger fuel scoops and can refuel faster, it's possible to fully refuel from one jump in the time you have to spend between jumps anyway.
Your FSD has a 10 seconds cooldown before you can start charging again, and then it has a 15 second charging time. If you can fully refuel in that time, you won't waste any time refueling at every star.
You'll still spend more time refueling, but you have to wait that 25 seconds anyway.
To refuel that quickly though requires you to start charging while scooping, which can cause overheating depending on your ship.

Personally, I'm not usually in that much of a rush. I normally scan every star while checking the map and if there's no reason to stop, I refuel while moving around to make the next jump.
 
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Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust
khaos526 said:
So I've done exploration past the core before Horizons was out and have done it after Engineers with a fully engineered ship (ASPx).

Assuming people filter out scoopable stars (and "Other" for things like Black holes, Neutron stars, etc)

My question is do people when using their fuel scoops tend to scoop at every star they can and top off their tanks? Or do they fly until their tanks are almost empty and do one large scoop at that point?

I know you have a little bit better FSD range when on a empty tank, but don't think it's really enough to make much of a difference over the long run.

I normally just top off at every star and while scooping I check the systems map to see if there's anything to look for, but just curious if there's any benefit of one method over another or not?
Click to expand...
There's a few things that are essential for me while scooping.

First and foremost, the scoop is under the boat you're flying. I know it works all around, and other people use it differently, but fact of the matter is, the scoop is bottom side. So you scoop over the star and you ride that crest until you reach maximum scoopage. If you time it right and leave the corona, and see the scoopinglevel drop, the perfect timing is that you finish scooping just as your tank is full. In all of this, don't worry about your destination. While charging your drive you can align with it with plenty of time left.

This way I scoop every hop, and still don't loose much time since I have to get to the other side of the star anyway. But most importantly is: scoop is down. The Elite way.
 

Major Klutz

Major Klutz
PGleesonuk said:
I find scooping while charging the FSD will always lead to overheating

How do you avoid that?
Click to expand...
A Cool running ship and a Fast fuel scoop.
I don't do it myself, but I've seen it done by others.
Here's a video of another commander demonstrating his technique.

You have to scoop fast to get out before you start to overheat.
Exit hyperspace with full throttle and head straight to max scooping range
Start charging as soon as your 10 second cooldown is complete which should hopefully be about the time you're at peak scooping rate and on your way out.
Heat levels rise to 80%-90% before you get out of scooping range with a few seconds left to finish charging and align to your next jump.

It also helps to minimize your ships heat output by turning off shields and other non essentials.

Ziggy Stardust said:
... But most importantly is: scoop is down. The Elite way.
Click to expand...
I always scoop upside down so I can see the exclusion zone.
Scooping with the star under me makes me uneasy since I can't see how close I am. Scooping rate is unaffected.
 
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goemon

goemon
PGleesonuk said:
I find scooping while charging the FSD will always lead to overheating

How do you avoid that?
Click to expand...

first step:
make your ship running cooler by turning all moduls of you don't need in sc ... power distributor, shields, cargo hatch, afmu ... up to sensors ( i don't turn of the sensors, but other do).

in most cases you can end here.

second step:
make your build using less power - less power usage, less overhaeting (d-class thrusters...).

third step:
use a ship with a higher heat capacity. hint: the DBE is king theoretically, the DBS is king practically (but you'll have to compromise a lot for an exploration build). https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/286628-Research-Detailed-Heat-Mechanics

fourth step:
engineer your powerplant low emission.

i went that far with my dbs used in this expedition: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/315562-The-Silly-Ships-Expedition, and couldn't overheat it, neither on skardee 1, nor by jumping from a b-class star at full scoop rate ... players could resolve the contact only below 200 m...

fifth step:
do not use blueprints which increase powerusage or heat generation of those moduls in use during sc. do not accept rolls which increase thermal load or powerusage ... now we are getting into hardcore grind country. but - there is a secondary decreasing the heat generation of fsds, you don't have to accept a roll leading to much higher power usage, etc. pp.

sixth step:
use engineered lightweiht e-class moduls beside powerplant and fsd (least powerusage) of those moduls used in sc.

a friend of mine has gone that far. at some point you'll get a ship with a permanently frozen canopy, if it isn't fuelscooping.
 

Ziggy Stardust

Ziggy Stardust
Major Klutz said:
I always scoop upside down so I can see the exclusion zone.
Scooping with the star under me makes me uneasy since I can't see how close I am. Scooping rate is unaffected.
Click to expand...
It's why I have the radar zoomed out, and aim at the center of the stalk coming out of the star.

While watching Ed's live streams The Journey Back Home, he also scoops with the star above him. Just feel wrong. WRONG! :D
goemon said:
sixth step:
use engineered lightweiht e-class moduls beside powerplant and fsd (least powerusage) of those moduls used in sc.
Click to expand...
Shouldn't that be d-class?
 
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goemon

goemon
Ziggy Stardust said:
Shouldn't that be d-class?
Click to expand...

no, e-class uses less power than d-class. of course, which explorer would fit more heavy moduls? but - d-class has ~15% more power usage than e-class. if you are not toally into that jumrange thingy, but want to run as cool as possible...
 

Traveller_GG

Traveller_GG
Ziggy Stardust said:
There's a few things that are essential for me while scooping.

First and foremost, the scoop is under the boat you're flying. I know it works all around, and other people use it differently, but fact of the matter is, the scoop is bottom side. So you scoop over the star and you ride that crest until you reach maximum scoopage. If you time it right and leave the corona, and see the scoopinglevel drop, the perfect timing is that you finish scooping just as your tank is full. In all of this, don't worry about your destination. While charging your drive you can align with it with plenty of time left.

This way I scoop every hop, and still don't loose much time since I have to get to the other side of the star anyway. But most importantly is: scoop is down. The Elite way.
Click to expand...

This is an informative post and very helpful but I hate you for spelling 'lose' incorrectly and I withdraw my offer of a seat :p


To the OP: I get into a routine when doing long distance exploring and scooping at every star aids in this. You get a muscle memory thing going after a while and it allows you to take in the sights more readily when you're not thinking so much about the mundane parts.
 

khaos526

khaos526
Ok then it seems it's more the norm at least in a ASPx to just top off every jump then, while a DBE you are better off waiting a bit then.

My first year exploration trip (before Horizons) I was fairly new to it and never filtered the stars, so I was going long stretches without refueling and then having to sit and wait for awhile when I did get a chance to do it (also I don't think I had the highest tier fuel scoop at the time either like I do now).

Now I just jump in, set my speed to 75%, position the ship over the horizon of the star, jump into the Systems map and see if I want to scan anything further and get out. By then my ships pretty much topped off. Only bad thing is if I stay in the system map listening to planet sounds to make sure it's something I want, I can tend to drift away from the star and sometimes (not often), I'll have to retrace the route if there was say a metal-rich planet next to the star...
 
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-VR- pipestein

-VR- pipestein
PGleesonuk said:
I find scooping while charging the FSD will always lead to overheating

How do you avoid that?
Click to expand...

The last piece of advise I can give on this that has not been mentioned is that you do not have to be throttled up to scoop. inch in slowly to the star as close as you can get without overheating adjust your view up so you are looking at the edge of the star and sit in close until you are finished scooping. I use this method a lot since I am in an undergeared asp with a 3A scoop so I have to sit on a star a lot. However I am running E grade parts with an A grade power plant so I can scoop at full speed as close to the star as I can get and not go above 64% heat. I also have the added bonus of being able to jump out of the exclusion zone of the star after emergency stops and not going over 95% or so heat.
 
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