Exploration - required improvements?

[Shaamaan]

I decided to go and visit the center of the galaxy - Sagittarius A.

A long trek, to be sure, and no one for everyone. You can definitely loose your mind if you, well, don't have the right mindset. Also, Exploration is the only part of ED, at the moment, where you can actually leave something behind (thus the capitalized E), if only it's a little tag next to a stellar body telling everyone that you were the first to discover it.

But this simple task requires so many improvements, and I'm baffled that they still haven't been added.

Let's start from the top:
- Why cannot I see the list of systems I visited? Why cannot I add notes to systems?
- Expanding on the previous point, why cannot I see the trail I'm blazing on the galaxy map? If I finally get to Sgr A and back I'd love to see the route I chose. Except, I can't, for it's not available.
- Why can't I see which systems have already been explored by other commanders? I do realize that a system can be partially or fully explored, but that's a percentage value. There are already filtering sliders for such use. You could see fantastic trails people blaze across the galaxy!
- Asteroids fields near stars - what are they for? They aren't for mining, they aren't for bounty hunting, they aren't for exploration (even if exploration SEEMS like it is the only thing you can do with them right now). The only thing they do is slow you down and annoy you. Either remove them, or actually DO something with them. Or at least make them VISIBLE. Perhaps an asteroid ring around stars, like you get around planets?
- Increasing the path-finding distance to 1000LS was a good call... except, why is it limited at all? Why not have it calculate a route for the next 1000LS somewhere in the general direction of your destination and then recalculate the route after you go those 1000LS? We still need to keep checking to galaxy map for potential fuel problems, so it's not like we'll set a target and forget about it.
- Why isn't the target saved? I'm on a multi-week trek across the galaxy - my target sure as hell won't change. Except I don't have much time to play, so I need to waste some time by reselecting my target system (or its approximation, given the 1000LS limit).
- While I haven't been affected by this myself, I did read horror stories of people loosing a LOT of exploration data to random bugs resulting in ship destruction. It's obvious that such bugs should be ironed out, but the real horror is that the servers don't actually have a log of exploration data kept by explorers! If this were an offline game, we could at least backup our saves.
- Seriously underwhelming back holes. I know no one's really SEEN a black hole in real life, but what we get in game is... disappointing and anticlimactic. Could you perhaps buff those up a little bit? Or even a lot? I know they're supposed to be black and dense, but one would wager there would be all sorts of weird phenomena near said black holes!
- More cool stuff! How about pretty comets with huge ice trails scorning the galaxy? Rogue planets? Black holes being in the process of consuming a star / planet? There are tons of potentially cool star stuff we could witness as part of our trek, but the best we can hope for is a cool configuration of stars...

 

[Westyb]

Yes to all this, i just started exploration 'properly' and i agree 100% with all of this.

 

[Vasea Azure]

Nice list, I pretty much agree on all of em.

 

[Setu]

It also seems silly to me that when you do a system scan, your computer is able to tell what type of planet it is well enough to give an accurate picture, but at the same time, the planet type is "Unknown", until you do a detailed scan. I think they should all be grey spheres until you do a detailed scan.

 

[Shanaeri]

I decided to go and visit the center of the galaxy - Sagittarius A.

A long trek, to be sure, and no one for everyone. You can definitely loose your mind if you, well, don't have the right mindset. Also, Exploration is the only part of ED, at the moment, where you can actually leave something behind (thus the capitalized E), if only it's a little tag next to a stellar body telling everyone that you were the first to discover it.

But this simple task requires so many improvements, and I'm baffled that they still haven't been added.

I spoke to Sandro about a lot of the below at Lavecon. Here is what I remember, so any inaccuracy is down to my faulty memory

Let's start from the top:
- Why cannot I see the list of systems I visited? Why cannot I add notes to systems?
- Expanding on the previous point, why cannot I see the trail I'm blazing on the galaxy map? If I finally get to Sgr A and back I'd love to see the route I chose. Except, I can't, for it's not available.
- Why can't I see which systems have already been explored by other commanders? I do realize that a system can be partially or fully explored, but that's a percentage value. There are already filtering sliders for such use. You could see fantastic trails people blaze across the galaxy!

The above restrictions are down to the technology. Basically, they would need to store the destinations, routes etc server side otherwise there would be a security issue it if was stored client side. It's something they recognise people would love and they would like to include it but atm the technology and resources available means it's a hard thing to do(its on their long list) given the money, technology and people they have available.

- Asteroids fields near stars - what are they for? They aren't for mining, they aren't for bounty hunting, they aren't for exploration (even if exploration SEEMS like it is the only thing you can do with them right now). The only thing they do is slow you down and annoy you. Either remove them, or actually DO something with them. Or at least make them VISIBLE. Perhaps an asteroid ring around stars, like you get around planets?

This was brought up in the Q&A along with comets and other stellar goodies. Basically, they would love to do them but it's a question of priority and effort vs reward. FD also asked us if they put comets in, what else other than look at them would we do? So it's not a no never, just a value to the game question.

- Increasing the path-finding distance to 1000LS was a good call... except, why is it limited at all? Why not have it calculate a route for the next 1000LS somewhere in the general direction of your destination and then recalculate the route after you go those 1000LS? We still need to keep checking to galaxy map for potential fuel problems, so it's not like we'll set a target and forget about it.

I didn't hear Fdev comment on this, but my speculation is, is that the route finding workload would increase exponentially the more routes it has to take into account(hence why core navigation takes so long)

- Why isn't the target saved? I'm on a multi-week trek across the galaxy - my target sure as hell won't change. Except I don't have much time to play, so I need to waste some time by reselecting my target system (or its approximation, given the 1000LS limit).

As above. What I do is I copy-paste the name into a notepad file so re-finding it is easy.

- Seriously underwhelming back holes. I know no one's really SEEN a black hole in real life, but what we get in game is... disappointing and anticlimactic. Could you perhaps buff those up a little bit? Or even a lot? I know they're supposed to be black and dense, but one would wager there would be all sorts of weird phenomena near said black holes!
- More cool stuff! How about pretty comets with huge ice trails scorning the galaxy? Rogue planets? Black holes being in the process of consuming a star / planet? There are tons of potentially cool star stuff we could witness as part of our trek, but the best we can hope for is a cool configuration of stars...

The black hole, supernova etc etc was brought up too. FD mentioned that accretion discs, conjoined binaries etc etc are all incredibly incredibly rare to the point of being non existent. They pointed out that often our view of what black holes etc should look like, or what stellar phenomena are present is coloured by the media that reports it. So an press release that says "NASA says there could be conjoined binaries out there somewhere" becomes interpreted as "NASA says.... are out there".

They did say that they would love to put more cool stuff in, but need to weigh up the practicalities of putting them in the game against how often they actually occur.

TLDR they are trying to make exploring more interesting and really want to oblige however there are practical and astrophysical blocks in the way of making the universe the TV shows would have us believe is out there

Hope that helped.

 

[Mikey2305]

That is an excellent post... These questions and similar are raised so often that it ought to be a sticky! Rep sir

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

- Why can't I see which systems have already been explored by other commanders? I do realize that a system can be partially or fully explored, but that's a percentage value. There are already filtering sliders for such use. You could see fantastic trails people blaze across the galaxy!

The downside is that people would go cherry picking. The data is sold and not ready available for other CMDRs.

There have been ideas about stacked scanning. When enough CMDRs have honked a system, it becomes available at the galmap. When enough people have scanned the objects in a system, they become purchasable

 

[Whiterose]

- Why cannot I see the list of systems I visited? Why cannot I add notes to systems?

- Why can't I see which systems have already been explored by other commanders? I do realize that a system can be partially or fully explored, but that's a percentage value. There are already filtering sliders for such use. You could see fantastic trails people blaze across the galaxy!
- Asteroids fields near stars - what are they for? They aren't for mining, they aren't for bounty hunting, they aren't for exploration (even if exploration SEEMS like it is the only thing you can do with them right now). The only thing they do is slow you down and annoy you. Either remove them, or actually DO something with them. Or at least make them VISIBLE. Perhaps an asteroid ring around stars, like you get around planets?
-

I log all the systems I have visited, using pen and paper. Yes there should be a better way.
As The Ziggers has stated, people would cherry pick systems. If Universal Cartographics was real they would have gone bust by now....no feedback whatsoever.
Asteroids are there to wind me up. Its a lot better now than it was, at ;east now you can select the target in the system map, previously you had to scroll through all the asteroids before you found your target.

 

[Shaamaan]

I spoke to Sandro about a lot of the below at Lavecon. Here is what I remember, so any inaccuracy is down to my faulty memory
(...)

Quite frankly, all of those sounded more like excuses, if you ask me. :-/ Security issues if the route was stored client-side? The only issue would be that said route would vanish if the player changed computers / cleared settings / whatever. Comets only good for looking at? Well, it's a lot better than the asteroids near stars, which are invisible (unless I missed a memo?)... I didn't suggest that we should have an infinite range path-finding. We should be able to SELECT a destination regardless of distance. Then we should get a path for the next 1000LS towards that destination, and no more. When we get closer, then the path gets recalculated... Which also makes the next point (of saving the destination) possible. You posted a manual workaround, not a solution, BTW. And finally, it's a game. There's really nothing wrong in pepping things up. Making black holes more visual appealing is bad, because... realism? Well, in that case, one should scream at the creators of the latest Jurassic World movie, because dinosaurs don't have feathers.

The downside is that people would go cherry picking. The data is sold and not ready available for other CMDRs.

There have been ideas about stacked scanning. When enough CMDRs have honked a system, it becomes available at the galmap. When enough people have scanned the objects in a system, they become purchasable

My answer? So what! Let them! Sure, systems near the populated space will quickly be all "taken", but does that REALLY matter when you have so many systems to choose from?

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

My answer? So what! Let them! Sure, systems near the populated space will quickly be all "taken", but does that REALLY matter when you have so many systems to choose from?

Yes it does. At the moment there are many systems to chose from near the bubble, because you can go off the beaten path. If the info you request becomes available, the available systems near the bubble will dry up more quickly as you say. Which would be a deterrent for new explorers.

Only when the often explored systems are being used to expand the bubble you will avoid this issue. When people are cherry picking the colonisation can't keep up.

 

[callahan44]

A few of your suggestions are why I use EDDiscovery.. logs systems you've been too, is a map of where of you and other cmdr's have been too, etc.
Features that should be in Galaxy map tbh.

 

[Shaamaan]

Yes it does. At the moment there are many systems to chose from near the bubble, because you can go off the beaten path. If the info you request becomes available, the available systems near the bubble will dry up more quickly as you say. Which would be a deterrent for new explorers.

Only when the often explored systems are being used to expand the bubble you will avoid this issue. When people are cherry picking the colonisation can't keep up.

I don't quite agree. I WENT off the beaten path. I specifically decided to go "down" before I started to make my way towards the core. The amount of systems already taken was beginning to annoy me, specifically BECAUSE I didn't know when they would stop being discovered. In other words, I think it's far more annoying seeing someone's already been to a star system you think is "pristine" rather than seeing where people have been from the get-go.

 

[Leper Messiah]

Good post OP, I agree with most points. I also understand the technical difficulties in implementing them, I wouldn't say they are excuses.

There's two other things I DO want though, MUCH faster acceleration and deceleration in Supercruise. At the mo I'm just scanning pin pricks of light in the blackness of space, because if I get too close it takes an AAAAAAAAAge to accelerate away up to a decent speed. In conjunction with the above I'd have that we need to be MUCH closer to start scanning a planetoid and have the scans complete MUCH quicker and have a bar that fills like the "honk" scan and not some stupid spinning thing that means nowt. Being made to approach closer and not have the time sink of slow acceleration away would make exploring SO much better for me as I have limited time and already spend FAR too much of it playing the game! (My wife HATES Elite!)

 

[AnnuverScotinExile]

I largely disagree.

I have nothing against most of the suggestions, but all they are doing is polishing the current placeholder. And that placeholder is not exploration, it is tourism.

The Galactic map is like a giant road atlas. All the roads are shown. It tells you about every city, town, village and hamlet. It even tells you a little bit (what the stars in the system are) about what is in the cities. What it does not tell you is the details of what is there (planets, asteroids, moons). Stretching my road map analogy, when you enter the system and blow your horn, you get an A-Z street map. So, tourism. There is nothing to explore, other than the contents of the systems.

I want exploration, not tourism. Polishing what we have does not get us there: though it makes tourism better.

We know FD have (or had) grander plans for actually exploring - they are in the DDA. That describes a system with exploration, not just tourism. I'd like something like that, please. Next week would be fine.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

I don't quite agree. I WENT off the beaten path. I specifically decided to go "down" before I started to make my way towards the core. The amount of systems already taken was beginning to annoy me, specifically BECAUSE I didn't know when they would stop being discovered. In other words, I think it's far more annoying seeing someone's already been to a star system you think is "pristine" rather than seeing where people have been from the get-go.

So you would have beelined straight for the 'pristines'. As would many CMDRs. Depleting the number of 'pristines' near the bubble very quickly. Now I don't mind having to cross a 1,000 Ly before I get to 'pristines', but when you never explored before that can be quite the challenge.

In the exploring forum someone made a post because the CMDR discovered an Eartlike 80 Ly away from the Bubble. Had the system you proposed been in place, that discovery wouldn't have happened this late in the game.

The main problem in your situation seems to be: seeing someone's already been to a star system you think is "pristine". You can't think it's pristine, because you've never been there. What made you think a system is 'pristine'? You want a 100% success-rate, removing any chance from the equation. That's fine for you of course, but to me having no surprises in that department sound incredibly boring. To each their own.

Lastly, what in my post didn't you agree with? Since I never talked about the emotional experience while exploring, but gave a possible outcome of the implementation of your idea. Is there anything in that analysis you disagreed with?

 

[Shaamaan]

So you would have beelined straight for the 'pristines'. As would many CMDRs. Depleting the number of 'pristines' near the bubble very quickly. Now I don't mind having to cross a 1,000 Ly before I get to 'pristines', but when you never explored before that can be quite the challenge.

In the exploring forum someone made a post because the CMDR discovered an Eartlike 80 Ly away from the Bubble. Had the system you proposed been in place, that discovery wouldn't have happened.

The main problem in your situation seems to be: seeing someone's already been to a star system you think is "pristine". You can't think it's pristine, because you've never been there. What made you think a system is 'pristine'? You want a 100% success-rate, removing any chance from the equation. That's fine for you of course, but to me having no surprises in that department sound incredibly boring. To each their own.

Lastly, what in my post didn't you agree with? Since I never talked about the emotional experience while exploring, but gave a possible outcome of the implementation of your idea. Is there anything in that analysis you disagreed with?

Well, first of all, one could filter out how pristine one wants the system to be in my original suggestion. There are sliders in place for filtering things out already. Why not the percentage of how many in-system stellar objects have been discovered? That nearby earth-like would still get discovered - except it probably would take a bit longer. And even if it HADN'T... would that even be an issue?

And your response was also based solely on emotional experience, i.e. that such a system would be a deterrent to new explorers. I disagree with that point specifically, and subsequently I see nothing wrong in seeing where people have already been. Sure, systems near the bubble will dry up... but that will only increase the bubble of explored space. And the bigger that bubble becomes, the slower it'll expand. It seems like a self-fixing problem.

 

[callahan44]

There is so much more they could add.
Discovering wreckage, of Titanic II, lost in 2875 on its maiden voyage... or lost colonies.
With addition of planetary landings, they could include returning with samples of alien life, or mineral samples.

In fact, the inhabited systems, could do with more Lore (even if it is procedural)..
a chronological history of each system, details of inhabitation, famous people and events, etc.

 

[Allitnil]

I largely disagree.

I have nothing against most of the suggestions, but all they are doing is polishing the current placeholder. And that placeholder is not exploration, it is tourism.

The Galactic map is like a giant road atlas. All the roads are shown. It tells you about every city, town, village and hamlet. It even tells you a little bit (what the stars in the system are) about what is in the cities. What it does not tell you is the details of what is there (planets, asteroids, moons). Stretching my road map analogy, when you enter the system and blow your horn, you get an A-Z street map. So, tourism. There is nothing to explore, other than the contents of the systems.

I want exploration, not tourism. Polishing what we have does not get us there: though it makes tourism better.

We know FD have (or had) grander plans for actually exploring - they are in the DDA. That describes a system with exploration, not just tourism. I'd like something like that, please. Next week would be fine.

Couldn't agree more. Sadly the feedback from Lavecon looks like it can be summarised as "exploring is not a priority". I very much doubt I will still have ED installed by the time any substantive improvements to exploring are even hinted at let alone implemented . Here's hoping some other game can create what exploring in ED could have been.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

And your response was also based solely on emotional experience, i.e. that such a system would be a deterrent to new explorers. I disagree with that point specifically.

Why do you disagree that new explorers having to travel further away would be a deterrent?

Lavecon looks like it can be summarised as "exploring is not a priority".

I am Ziggy's stunned amazement.

 

[robberer]

What I would like to see is an "Add to route" option + "save route" in the Galaxy Map. With these functions one could easily plan a very long trip.