Ships Exploration ship choice and loadout

GammaZ · Jun 23, 2015

Decided to do some exploration again, after a big break, and faced a question which ship to use. I used T6 before, for a long time, because i just did not have money to buy something better. Now credits are not a question, so i thought that i will just buy diamondback explorer or asp and it will be the best choice. Tried both ships in "lightweight" loadout (2A powerplant, 5A FSD, D-grade everything else, no additional equipment like AFMU-s or heatsinks) and (probably after flying all those combat ships) both seemed like death traps to me. Terribly slow, sluggish, sidewinder-level shields (i understand i do not need shields at all, but... just feels uncomfortable, lets say)... just did not like both. Even T6 seems better.
So here is the question - what ship can be used to explore, if i want relatevely nimble, fast and preferably small ship with nice view from the window? I do not plan to do "fast run to sagittarius A" or something, just a bit of exploration, probably not too far from "home".
On paper hauler looks great and almost ideal ship for the job, but that cockpit... no way...
Also, do i really need AFMU-s and heatsinks? Last time in T6 i had both but never had a chance to use either of them. Seems just like a waste of weight and space, or am i wrong?

quickr · Jun 23, 2015

I use adder for mid range exploring. It's cheap, light and has decent enough jump range.

AntiDisco · Jun 23, 2015

The Adder cockpit is even worse than the Hauler.
If you don't go farther than 5k out I wouldn't bother with AFMUs at all and heat sinks are optional. Should you take too much damage, just hurry back.
You could take a look at the Diamondback Scout, it's much more nimble than the Explorer but with less jump range. If you want a great Cockpit and speed to flee, go with the Clipper but the jump range is only mediocre.

GammaZ · Jun 23, 2015

Hmm, actually clipper is good idea, will try it, thanks.

Kancro Vantas · Jun 23, 2015

Not sure for how long did you explore with the T6 previously or how far are you looking to go for this new exploration...my Asp is fully fitted and multi functional...nimble, packs a punch, and max jump range is 29.80 with 27 as average.

For the Asp, You need a shield 5A, an a 5A power plant and 5A Thrusters to make it strong, running cool and agile. Scoop 3A will suffice, but if in a rush, good luck spending millions on the 6A that is really not worth it for few seconds but hey! tastes.. so, your choice.

Playing with some stats, the DBE can have a decent configuration, being armed and shielded, but is -inexplicably- heavier than the Asp, so not as agile. Good for nice exploration though.

Compromise exploration for more agility? DBS then...

And just last two cents on your current choice, keep in mind Clipper's cons: fuel thirsty and relatively high operational costs when compared to other explorer ships....

GammaZ · Jun 23, 2015

With T6 i visited few nebulas (of course looking around and searching for something interesting to see on the way), Cat's Paw, NGC 6357, Omega, Lagoon and returned "home". It gave me something like 14m credits and pathfinder rank.
Curently i am planning to do something similar, just visit few nebulas, probably in opposite direction this time.

Problem with described a-grade asp configuration is that it sacrifices a lot of jump range just to get some defence, getting somewhere in cobra area (which do not need shields at all, can just boost away). I hope to find ship that can do the same in more elegant way.... this is why i do not want to "just use anaconda" too...

And yes, i will buy DBS and try to fly it a bit, hope it will be better than DBE...

Murishani · Jun 23, 2015

Honestly if you liked exploring in the T6, explore in the T6 again. Many explorers with enough cash to by two condas still use a T6 for exploring, its a great explorer.

If:
Youre not planning a super long journey, you're not going to the rim, and you're plotting economic routes
Almost any ship with a moderately good jump range and three slots (for scanners and a scoop), will do the job just fine.
If:
You're going on a long journey, you're going to the rim, or you need those big long jump distances
your choices are slimmer and youll probably want an Asp, a conda, or maybe a DBE/DBS to make those bigger jumps (I need to test loadouts with the diamondbacks to see what their max range is).

As for AFMU's and heat sinks, AFMU's weigh nothing and can provide support which is why many explorers take them, heat sinks are for panic situations or when you need to cool off to jump, many of the people who carry them have never, or only rarely had to use them, people who dont carry them see no need. I carry both because I have fallen into binaries and got too close to BH's and needed to cool off to jump without taking damage, and I have a nightmare that Im 15k lightyears out and my scanner breaks ending my trip, it's up to you whether theyre worth the effort to bring.

Surly_Badger · Jun 23, 2015

My first big explore-trip was in a T-6. I love that ship (It's sitting mothballed at LHS 1110 in case I need it) Once you replace the FSD and power system with stuff that runs cooler, it's a great little explorer. I wish it had more jump range but ... Look at me, I'm out exploring in a Python.

Kancro Vantas said:
And just last two cents on your current choice, keep in mind Clipper's cons: fuel thirsty and relatively high operational costs when compared to other explorer ships....

Yeah but... My Clipper has great carpet, and I sprung for the Shifnalport-oak wood panelling on the console!! And I'm a good enough pilot that I haven't (knock on wood) burned it badly yet. May as well ride in comfort!!

My last failed explore/mining trip was in a T-9 with original thrusters* and I can confirm that having a ship that spins about nimbly is a big deal when you're exploring.

(* What was I thinking?!)

BanzaiZAP · Jun 23, 2015

You could always upgrade that Asp. 5D Shields and A rated Thrusters will make it feel much safer, and still get over 30 LY jump range. It's a nifty little ship, so don't discount it just because you gave it crappy outfitting.

Then there is always the traditional Cobra. It fits up as a deep space explorer quite well! I'm currently using an Orca, but I'm silly that way.

puca · Jun 23, 2015

Asp is the best exploration ship. I don't understand how you think the T6 is better, as the asp outclasses it in literally every way relevant for exploration.

Ziljan · Jun 23, 2015

The T-6 can go 406 with double boost so it can be quite fast compared to an Asp. Other than that, the Asp is vastly superior.

If you're worried about getting shot out of the sky with the paper shields on the DB ships, learn to stealth-jump.

Surly_Badger · Jun 23, 2015

Ziljan said:
learn to stealth-jump.

I am not familiar with this technique. Is it explained somewhere?

GammaZ · Jun 24, 2015

puca said:
Asp is the best exploration ship. I don't understand how you think the T6 is better, as the asp outclasses it in literally every way relevant for exploration.

Exploration is a little bit weird ATM, there are actualy no way to tell that one ship is better than another for exploration, other than just one number - jump range. And APS is not best, it is completely outclassed by anaconda if you judge it just by jump characteristics.
And the other thing - jump range actually does not matter that much if you are not going to do speed run to Sag A, you just need something like 15-20Ly to be able to fly relatively direct routes.

So lets say i am just looking for ship i will like for a combination of flight characteristics, jump characteristics and aesthetics, i will spend few weeks in it after all...

Also yes, i will use T6 if i will not find something better, lets just say... ship/loadout selection is interesting by itself.

Meanwhile bought myself a clipper, and... could not resist to try it in combat

Looks like i missed a lot by completely skipping this ship... now just need to think about some sensible outfit for exploration... jump range is not that good...

Murishani · Jun 24, 2015

GammaZ said:
Exploration is a little bit weird ATM, there are actualy no way to tell that one ship is better than another for exploration, other than just one number - jump range. And APS is not best, it is completely outclassed by anaconda if you judge it just by jump characteristics.

This is not true, there are several factors that matter when exploring, the jump range, the fuel scoop size, SC handling and finally what your repair bill will be when you get home.
The Anaconda can outjump the Asp, but only just barely, and your structural repairs when you get back from exploring are going to be through the roof.
There's a reason the Asp is so popular for explorers and its not just because the Anaconda is expensive.

BanzaiZAP · Jun 24, 2015

Actually, there are a number of different factors to make up a dedicated Exploration vessel.

The obvious one is indeed Jump Range. As mentioned, this is really only important for two things: Speed Distances, and Distant Stars. If you want to make good time in a long distance travel, Jump Range is what does it. If you are not in a big hurry, then its not an issue. Distant Stars can be an issue, dpending on what you are looking for. If you head to the Core, then everything is very close together. If you head to the Rim, or the psaces between the spiral arms, then you do need the jump range. One of the neatest nebulae (NGC 7822) is ONLY reachable if you have at least 23LY jumps. (Best Jumpers: Anacoda, Asp, DB Explorer, Scout, Cobra, T6)

Fuel Scoops are mandatory, and a long range explorer really does want the biggest they can fit. Taking two minutes to scoop at every third star gets real old, real fast. A 6C scoop pulls in at around 600/s, so even a Asp with extra tanks fills up in seconds. You can spring for 6A or higher if you have money to burn, but a 6C is fast, and not expensive. Smaller ships with smaller tanks can deal with smaller scoops, but bigger is definitely better. Compare a Cobra with a 4A scoop to a DB with a 3A, and you'll understand. (Cobra is best of the small ships, and I fit my Asp with 5A Shield and 6A Scoop instead of the other way around.)

Fuel Tank is another big factor, but you can now equip extra tanks to help. Stopping to refuel every other star is a big pain in the butt, and you can be really screwed by a string of browns. An Asp's 32 ton tank lets you jump without a worry, and you only need to scoop every once in a while. Since you can now add tanks, larger ships like Clippers and Orca can be much more easily run for exploration than before 1.3 Here is a case where the Diamondback's fewer modules is a disadvantage: no room for more gas! (Asp has best built-in, large ships have more room for extra tanks)

Windscreen and Canopy are more important than people expect. Compare an Adder with a Clipper for the biggest difference: you can barely even see where you are going in an Adder, and a Clipper has the best view of all. If you are checking out nebulae and ringed systems, you want a nice view. It's just you and your cockpit out there, so make sure it looks pleasant to you. (Clipper and Orca have the best views. Asp isn't far behind, since you can look down!)

Module Space can be important, especially if you want to fit shields, AFMU, etc. Small ships, especially Scouts and DBExpl's are limited in module space. Again, bigger is better, and Asp fits the happy medium perfectly.

Heating Issues can be critical, especially if you encounter the legendary Contact Binary, or have cats. Small ships crammed with gear don't cool off as quickly, plus the Power Plant and Distributor can make differences. I've found that T6's and especially Haulers overheat too much for me, and the more dedicated exploration hulls seem to fly cooler. Heat Sinks can help, but only once you've been dumped to normal space.

Style. Yeah, everyone wants to look good, but what looks good to you is personal. As mentioned, I explore in an Orca.

There are other threads debating the use of heat sinks and AFMU's, so we'll leave that discussion over there.

So yeah, go out in that T6! Have fun! There really is no One Right Answer, so you might as well fly the ship you like best.

GammaZ · Jun 24, 2015

Yes, you are probably right...
But Fuels scoop and Fuel tank does not matter at all, and should only be considered relative to FSD size. Smaller ship with smaller FSD, Fuel scoop and Fuel tank can be similar to bigger one. Scooping time, number of jumps etc can be similar.
And because of this i cannot understand DBE/DBS at all. Just compare DBE to T6 and you will notice that T6 have bigger fuel scoop while having smaller FSD and fuel tank. And then DBS/adder comparison is similar. Scooping 16T for DBS with 3A scoop will be slow, but for adder with its 8t tank 3A scoop is very good. And because of bigger FSD DBS with its bigger tank can only do one additional max-range jump compared to adder (5 instead of 4). And if you take hauler it is even better, with 3A scoop and just 4T tank, and smaller FSD than adder which will allow 4 max-range jumps just like adder, but using less fuel.
Partialy because of this i wanted something relatively small...

Also repair costs do not matter. I am not exploring to make money...

PhoenicianSon · Jun 24, 2015

I pulled a 2 week run for exploration pushing well out past the California Nebula and beyond. Found a ton of unexplored systems and pulled their data. I will say that with your build, you might want to consider a Module Repair Unit. It saved my biscuit when I got pulled into a Blackhole.

Definitely worth the investment. On the ASP Explorer I was flying, I added one into the Size 3 slot, I think it was that slot, perhaps a C rated. What I can remember is that it had 3600 ammo, which counts down fairly quickly as you start to repair modules. I had to repair my fuel scoop, which stopped working after getting caught in that blackhole. But for that fuel scoop, I would have been stuck and had to self destruct well over 2k LY out in uninhabited space losing well over 3 million at that point in exploration data. That would have sucked.

I think you should consider one if you are planning on getting out there for a couple weeks.

Wargrum · Jun 24, 2015

I'm actually really enjoying exploring in an Imperial Courier at the moment. Fully stripped down (it still has shields, and a heatsink - but everything else got thrown out or miniaturized to save weight), it jumps 25-28 LY depending on the amount of gas in the tank. It stays reasonably cool with its 2A Power module, and doesn't heat up too fast while scooping. Its a joy to fly and it has a great view. I wish it could break 30LY with a full tank, but I'm enjoying flying it way more than the ASP I used to use.
Oh - not everyone agrees with me about the view... but I use head tracking, and spend a lot of time looking around and above me. It's canopy is brilliant with head tracking.... really nice.

Schattenbogen · Jun 24, 2015

Kancro Vantas said:
For the Asp, You need a shield 5A, an a 5A power plant and 5A Thrusters to make it strong, running cool and agile. Scoop 3A will suffice, but if in a rush, good luck spending millions on the 6A that is really not worth it for few seconds but hey! tastes.. so, your choice.

On an exploration Asp, which mean an unarmed fast Asp, a 3A shield and a 4A power plant is sufficient, event with 5A thrusters.
6C Scoop is a great investment (6A is far to costly, at buying , at maintenance and at loosing) : among the danger of exploration is scooping. The less time you scoop, the less risk you take.
Auto-repair modules are a great help, I like to have 2 A3 modules (one can repair the other and the auto-repair munitions can go down quickly).
And don't forget to take "Heat Sinkers", can save your life too.

As said, if you go in direction of the center of the galaxy, jump range is less important and you can make a pretty complete exploration configuration with an Imperial Courrier and 9M credits (20LY jump range).

http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=707,mpV0Wg0Wg,2-3I4s4s1k4s3m5A,4zM5DI0Iw7OW2UI2jw

(I don't really like full stripped down ship, to much specialization, and once home, you can replace fuel tank and auto-repair with cargo and you have a pretty smuggler mission ship)

GammaZ · Jun 25, 2015

So i decided to use clipper after all. Jump range is not very good, but i will not need it hopefully.
Added second fuel tank and pair of AFMU-s, because they are weightless.
Courier is nice too, but well... i already bought clipper...
Heading towards bubble nebula for now...
Thanks for all ideas.