Exploration Should Be Its Own Reward (aka. Where Is The Awe?!)

The odds are that you will have seen this video before:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HEheh1BH34Q

Pretty awesome isn't it?

Shouldn't Elite be as close as we humans can get to experiencing the majesty of such colossal objects as these? I don't believe the game makes the most of stars at the moment. It feels that their implementation was a (very good) first try which was well received but hasn't seen any improvement since.

Consider the following:

Here I am fresh out of hyperspace in front of HIP 20052 -
View attachment 6116

This vast ball of fusion is a Class G star. It weighs 30% more than Sol and has a slightly larger radius, too. This picture was taken from about 5.5ls out.

This sort of image will be familiar to you from the countless times you have emerged from hyperspace.

It looks a lot like this one:
View attachment 6117

There is however a difference here. This star is Canopus. I travelled there for three reasons.

The first is because my first 3D accelerator was made by a company called Canopus and Elite is my all-time favourite 3D game.
The second is because with only one other system, Canopus is about 30ly from any other inhabited systems.
The third is that Canopus is a little different to Sol, HIP 20052 and most other stars.

Canopus is a supergiant. If you were to take 9 Sols and let them collapse into each other you would have a star that weighted the same as Canopus.

The radius of Canopus is also larger than our sun.

72.4 times larger.

You can tell this when you emerge from hyperspace if you have played the game enough because you emerge at a greater distance (300ls+). Is there majesty in this? Any awe you get about how much larger this is (or any other super/hyper giant) is implied like an impressive stat on a spreadsheet. It doesn't really make your jaw drop though, does it?

Yet these are the very things that Elite should be showcasing. Allowing us to experience. The great objects of our galaxy are the ultimate fruits of exploration, not surface scanning or collecting pennies from Universal Carto.

Consider now how it would be if we were to pop out of hyperspace at a constant distance from the primary.

Sol, HIP 20052 and most other stars would see little change.

Hyperspace in to Canopus, Rigel or VY Canis Majoris and your entire view is filled with the star.

Fuel scooping would be like flying across a vast, flat landscape of plasma.

Think of the view as you sit on a small outpost orbiting one.

You would be in no doubt of the astonishing scale.

It would be majestic. Awesome.


I appreciate there may be technical or lore issues with this. Gameplay considerations perhaps. However might these systems be rare enough to be non-critical to playing the game? At worst something to experience once, then take on warily in future (like a more fun trip to Hutton Orbital)?

I always hoped that Elite would be our galaxy/universe as close as possible to how physics describes but experienced in a way that physics wholly prohibits. Until the majesty of the greatest objects of the galaxy are properly portrayed, it will not fulfil the former.

-----

As it happens, my trip to Canopus was meant to me the staging post for a grander journey.

I wanted to travel to a place called the Crab Nebula. Some time ago a star with a mass a little like that of Canopus exploded, leaving behind this nebula. It also left behind a smaller star. This star is special; it's a neutron star. Comprised mostly of - as the name suggests - neutrons, they are the densest and smallest stars in the known universe and this neutron star has a mass of about 40% more than our sun.

It is 20km in diameter. Basically you can fit a star with more mass than our sun, inside the M25 (London's ring road).

Yet still there is more to this star because sometimes neutron stars can be highly magnetised and sometimes they can spin. When these two things happen they emit electromagnetic radiation. In very, very rare instances they emit visible light.

The Crab Pulsar has a mass of 1.4 suns. It is 20km across, spins 30 times a second and emits visible light.

I want to travel there and feel my ship shake under the rippling of gravitational waves. Have my cockpit bathed in neutron light.

But I think I will wait for a little more thought to go into how physics is portrayed and experienced before making the 6500ly trip.
 
Agreed with OP. With jumping into a system at a relative distance to the star pretty much the only concept of size difference is in the numbers shown on the screen. Appreciating the physics though, and the radiation and graivity from the stars being relative to their sizes and densities surely there can be *some* wobble room found?
 
If awe is what you are looking for and you have some Christmas funds to treat yourself, get yourself a Rift - it makes exploring a very different experience!
 
Our suns surface is 5900k, VY Canis Majoris, is about 3500k... so we should be able to get much closer to the surface and see how large the hyper giants are and get to see that plasma up close
 
If awe is what you are looking for and you have some Christmas funds to treat yourself, get yourself a Rift - it makes exploring a very different experience!

<jealousy>No doubt!</jealousy>
Imagine coming out of hyperspace and zooming up to a hypergiant when you aren't expecting it.


Added bonus: some Rift users might get heart attacks and their surviving spouse would flog the headset on ebay thus increasing the chances of me getting one*.








* - joke.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Our suns surface is 5900k, VY Canis Majoris, is about 3500k... so we should be able to get much closer to the surface and see how large the hyper giants are and get to see that plasma up close

I'm not entirely sure about it would work; VY is cooler but larger so outputs more heat to a given area at a given distance? (Think, large heater set to medium versus a small heater set to high).

Regardless, experience reality as close to what physics tells us in a way that physics will never let us. First things first, make us go 'wow' then worry about how to make it possible. Please :D
 
It would be amazng if the supergiants were implemented that way OP.
I'd like to thnk that it may happen when we get the planetary landing upgrade as the tech required is practically identical: Fast generation of high quality terrain and good LOD for sustained frame rate.

I'm pretty sure the planets/stars at the moment are just textures on a spherical surface, which looks great from orbit, but terrible at lower altitudes (that you cannot reach in-game).
I came to that conclusion because you can alter the size of the textures that are generated for the game but you cannot alter any generated geometry.. so it likely doesn't exist yet :)

Edit/
If anyone is interested in ramping up generated textures such as planets and the starfield, you can do so here:
.....\Elite Dangerous\Products\FORC-FDEV-D-1001\GraphicsConfiguration.xml

Code:
...
    <High>
      <LocalisationName>$QUALITY_HIGH;</LocalisationName>
      <TextureSize>2048</TextureSize>
      <AtmosphereSteps>6</AtmosphereSteps>
      <CloudsEnabled>true</CloudsEnabled>
      <WorkPerFrame>256</WorkPerFrame>
    </High>
  </Planets
...
...
    <High>
      <LocalisationName>$QUALITY_HIGH;</LocalisationName>
      <TextureSize>2048</TextureSize>
    </High>
  </GalaxyBackground>
...

Use <TextureSize>4096</TextureSize>
 
Last edited:
I'd like to thnk that it may happen when we get the planetary landing upgrade as the tech required is practically identical: Fast generation of high quality terrain and good LOD for sustained frame rate.

Sense, written ;)

I just hope they don't let this slip by because what they have at the moment is really good. But it could be so much more...
 
I'm not entirely sure about it would work; VY is cooler but larger so outputs more heat to a given area at a given distance? (Think, large heater set to medium versus a small heater set to high).

Regardless, experience reality as close to what physics tells us in a way that physics will never let us. First things first, make us go 'wow' then worry about how to make it possible. Please :D

Not really how it works.
Yes, VY has a much larker total energy output then the sun, but since your ship only has an exposed surface of a couple of m², only a miniscule % of that total output will actually reach your ship.
In that case the output per area is much more interesting, and the sun actually has a higher output per surface area than VY, hence the higher surface temperature.
So he's right you would actually be able to fly much closer to the surface of VY Canis Majoris than yould be at the sun, or a neutron star (wich is extremely hot and small.)
 
Last edited:
I tried exploration a little but i found that because i was scanning things at such a distance, i didn't really travel to them to have a look and enjoy the view. I know i could have done that anyway, but it would be nice to have a financial incentive to get close to a celestial body. Perhaps they could make it so the surface detail scanner has to be done from much nearer, but you get more credits for doing so, don't know just a thought.
 
+1
Even in the rift, the stars look spectacular but the difference in scale is not apparent enough. It would seem like a really easy win for making the universe look more varied. Currently it is, but it doesn't always look it. If you watch Titans of Space in the rift, it really conveys the scale of different stars in a way that's almost disturbing.
 
As long as the stars are modeled accurately I don't see larger drop out distance as an issue.



I definitely get some of what you're talking about. I want the objects we find and see to be as close as possible to what they really look like. But stars do look a lot alike. Stuff like accretion disks and places like Beta Lyrae, that's what I want to see. I'm going to Beta Lyrae my first trip "out there" but I suspect it will be nothing to see, just a close binary :(
 
Last edited:
The biggest thorn in explorations side is the combination of facts that you can scan at a very far away distance (surface scans) and the gravity effect on your FSD is severe. Added together you have a very strong compulsion to scan from a distance. Yes, I want to see pretty planets but I don't want to spend 3 minutes watching my ship struggle to make it back to lightspeed.

I'm going to agree with the spawn at the same distance from a star, if heat damage needs to be lowered from proximity, I'm all for that as well. It would make fuel scooping a little more interesting.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top Bottom