Exploration: Unique Random permanent POI

Unique Randomly seeded exploration sites:

One of the main issues with Exploration is Elite is the lack of content. Exploration with the knowledge that there is essentially nothing out there to find has very little to motivate players. Outside of a small niche of dedicated deep space wanderers.

One of my proposals is the addition of unique procedurally seeded sites. There are also issues with the exploration mechanics but we will leave that for now, but a method of pinpointing signals is needed.

Wrecks, ancient alien ruins, gear stashes, etc Example: you scan down a weak EM signature to a planet, it coalesces into a repeating unknown signal. You do a high def scan, get a search area, land and use the SRV scanner to pinpoint it. It's a wrecked alien ship of type N. You investigate and find a unique alien piece of tech that will sell for x millions. Others can find this wreck, but not the loot that was a one off.

Finds when cashed in are saved to the exploration database. The site will be flagged with the Commanders name, and show up on Nav panels. It could also be procedurally integrated into the mission system. Ie: “Scientist wants to visit the recently discovered site discovered by commander X 3000LY away to analyse it”.

As an extension of this system I imagine the galaxy being seeded with extinct civilisations. This is a bit more involved, but still uses the magic of predictable random numbers.

There are X number of procedurally created alien races that have died out and left their remains around the galaxy. These sites are as described above. Unique and permanent, with the possibility of valuable one off items, as well as exploration data.

Lets say there are 10,000. Each race has a tech level , 1-10. 10 being very advanced. One being primitive. Each race has a home world, a procedural name, a type, ie insectoid, aquatic, humanoid etc (yes original Elite I'm looking at you) It also has an age, how long ago they flourished , when they died out and how they died out.

The tech level dictates where and what type of remains they left, the type the style, the age the condition.

A tech level 1 society will not have left its home world. Whereas a tech level 3 might have expanded to fill a whole solar system. 5 might have sent out generation ships and colonised a few worlds, or left large wrecks floating in space. 6+ will be interstellar and stretch over a wider and wider area .

Example:

Commander Kirk picks up a signal one day exploring in deep space. It takes a while but he tracks it down. To his delight it's a crashed ship on a moon. He explorers the wreck , his scans indicate it's over a million years old. Its smashed to but still emitting energy, this is a wreck from a hi tech FTL civilisation.

His scans log it for exploration payment later. To his even greater amazement he finds that a piece of alien tech is still working and he manages to extract a piece of it, if he can get this home it will be worth 5-30 million credits. Further more his advanced SRV data scanner can read some data from what's left of the ships memory core, it seems that it's corrupted nav data. But it gives him part of the ships course that brought it here. He now has a clue where to look for other remains from this civilisation. He narrows down it's origin system based on its travel time and heading and sets off in that direction to continue exploring.



All of this stuff can be procedurally generated. Tech level / age / crash type / luck all factored in. There might be no data the wreck might be totally inert. It might give the location down to solar system level of the station it left from all that time ago, or the destination of a sister vessel. Eventually a dedicated explorer might be able to work his way back to an alien homeworld. You might find an abandoned station floating in space, or a small outpost on a planet. It might give no data at all. But your scanners might be able to give you more information, the accuracy of data increasing as you find more information about a given species. Eventually we uncover more and more of the proceduraly generated history of said species as well.



The size of the galaxy means that there can be millions of these unique sites out there and although it will still be really hard to find them, the knowledge that there IS stuff out there to discover will drive pilots on. The data will feedback to the community via Galnet and passenger missions. Allowing everyone not only to see the discoverers name, but visit the sites and earn money doing it. Other explorers that swing by a previously discovered site can perform secondary scans on it that give lower payouts than the original.

Players looking up this stuff in universal cartographic might see a whole range of information depending on how much has been uncovered.

Example:

The Th'tange are a relatively recently extinct tech level 7 insectoid race. We estimate they became extinct 55,000 years ago.

7 remains have been found in the area of the Parrots Head nebula by 2 different commanders. They were first discovered by Commander Padaxes on July 7th.

4 ships, one probe and one surface installation have been found, mostly in medium to heavy degradation and. Three Items of Th'tange technology have been returned to human space for analysis fetching a total of 65million credits.

Their shield technology seems to have surpassed ours but their ship hulls were much weaker. If their species was much older they wrecks would be far more degraded.
 
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Unique Randomly seeded exploration sites:

One of the main issues with Exploration is Elite is the lack of content. Exploration with the knowledge that there is essentially nothing out there to find has very little to motivate players. Outside of a small niche of dedicated deep space wanderers.

One of my proposals is the addition of unique procedurally seeded sites. There are also issues with the exploration mechanics but we will leave that for now, but a method of pinpointing signals is needed.

Wrecks, ancient alien ruins, gear stashes, etc Example: you scan down a weak EM signature to a planet, it coalesces into a repeating unknown signal. You do a high def scan, get a search area, land and use the SRV scanner to pinpoint it. It's a wrecked alien ship of type N. You investigate and find a unique alien piece of tech that will sell for x millions. Others can find this wreck, but not the loot that was a one off.

Finds when cashed in are saved to the exploration database. The site will be flagged with the Commanders name, and show up on Nav panels. It could also be procedurally integrated into the mission system. Ie: “Scientist wants to visit the recently discovered site discovered by commander X 3000LY away to analyse it”.

As an extension of this system I imagine the galaxy being seeded with extinct civilisations. This is a bit more involved, but still uses the magic of predictable random numbers.

There are X number of procedurally created alien races that have died out and left their remains around the galaxy. These sites are as described above. Unique and permanent, with the possibility of valuable one off items, as well as exploration data.

Lets say there are 10,000. Each race has a tech level , 1-10. 10 being very advanced. One being primitive. Each race has a home world, a procedural name, a type, ie insectoid, aquatic, humanoid etc. It also has an age, how long ago they flourished and when they died out.

The tech level dictates where and what type of remains they left, the type the style, the age the condition.

A tech level 1 society will not have left its home world. Whereas a tech level 3 might have expanded to fill a whole solar system. 5 might have sent out generation ships and colonised a few worlds, or left large wrecks floating in space. 6+ will be interstellar and stretch over a wider and wider area .

Example:

Commander Kirk picks up a signal one day exploring in deep space. It takes a while but he tracks it down. To his delight it's a crashed ship on a moon. He explorers the wreck , his scans indicate it's over a million years old. Its smashed to but still emitting energy, this is a wreck from a hi tech FTL civilisation.

His scans log it for exploration payment later. To his even greater amazement he finds that a piece of alien tech is still working and he manages to extract a piece of it, if he can get this home it will be worth 5-30 million credits. Further more his advanced SRV data scanner can read some data from what's left of the ships memory core, it seems that it's corrupted nav data. But it gives him part of the ships course that brought it here. He now has a clue where to look for other remains from this civilisation. He narrows down it's origin system based on its travel time and heading and sets off in that direction to continue exploring.



All of this stuff can be procedurally generated. Tech level / age / crash type / luck all factored in. There might be no data the wreck might be totally inert. It might give the location down to solar system level of the station it left from all that time ago, or the destination of a sister vessel. Eventually a dedicated explorer might be able to work his way back to an alien homeworld. You might find an abandoned station floating in space, or a small outpost on a planet. It might give no data at all. But your scanners might be able to give you more information, the accuracy of data increasing as you find more information about a given species.



The size of the galaxy means that there can be millions of these unique sites out there and although it will still be really hard to find them, the knowledge that there IS stuff out there to discover will drive pilots on. The data will feedback to the community via Galnet and passenger missions. Allowing everyone not only to see the discoverers name, but visit the sites and earn money doing it. Other explorers that swing by a previously discovered site can perform secondary scans on it that give lower payouts than the original.

Great ideas. This, coupled with improvements to exploration mechanics, could be a fantastic improvement for the game :).
 
One of the few issues with Elite it's too big for its own good, Huge Galaxy but very empty. I always love the way FDevs say mystery things to find or these things are out there, but where. Some of the things date back to beta and still haven't been found my point again you have this huge galaxy please fill it up or make things a bit easier to find, as players get bored and can't be asked. thank you.:)
 
One of the few issues with Elite it's too big for its own good, Huge Galaxy but very empty. I always love the way FDevs say mystery things to find or these things are out there, but where. Some of the things date back to beta and still haven't been found my point again you have this huge galaxy please fill it up or make things a bit easier to find, as players get bored and can't be asked. thank you.:)

Yeah it's def a two factor problem. The mechanics need an upgrade for sure. But that's pointless if there is nothing to find. We need interesting content.

You could have millions of these unique POI and they would still be rare, sure in theory the players could find them all eventually, but in the size of the galaxy I reckon it would keep the explorer crew going for a good while!
 
Exploration needs drastic improvements, but this is basically "implement something for explorers to do without actually tying it into exploration or the galaxy we explore".

Let FD do it properly mate. If the best they can do is leave things as they are and add persistent PoIs for us to look at, I'll be temporarily leaving my pew-pew post and jumping in with the exploration folk when they call out FD for not bothering with anything but pew-pew.
 
Exploration needs drastic improvements, but this is basically "implement something for explorers to do without actually tying it into exploration or the galaxy we explore".

Let FD do it properly mate. If the best they can do is leave things as they are and add persistent PoIs for us to look at, I'll be temporarily leaving my pew-pew post and jumping in with the exploration folk when they call out FD for not bothering with anything but pew-pew.

No it's making the galaxy you are exploring more interesting, or at least one way of doing it, some might call it a suggestion....

And obviously FDev would be doing it, I mean I'd happily code it for them if they asked , but I suspect they would want to do it on their own.
 
No it's making the galaxy you are exploring more interesting, or at least one way of doing it, some might call it a suggestion....

And obviously FDev would be doing it, I mean I'd happily code it for them if they asked , but I suspect they would want to do it on their own.

Ah, the armchair developer ;)

Yes it's a suggestion, but no it's not necessarily right. It's basically a cop-out as far as fixing exploration goes. It needs to be more interesting yes, but that will happen through actual mechanics changes and improvements to the galaxy itself - not the odd PoI to drop into.
 
Ah, the armchair developer ;)

Yes it's a suggestion, but no it's not necessarily right. It's basically a cop-out as far as fixing exploration goes. It needs to be more interesting yes, but that will happen through actual mechanics changes and improvements to the galaxy itself - not the odd PoI to drop into.

You are also not necessarily right on one point there and definitely wrong on the other :)

Mechanical improvements are required as stated, and this is one way of making the galaxy more interesting. You know, things to find. After all the planets are static procedurally generated POI . they just get a little repetitive. If you think procedural content is a cop out, then I have bad news, almost everything in the game FDev have already done is a cop out by that measure. In fact I would agree with that with regards to USS....

What would you suggest to make the universe more interesting then ?
 
If you think procedural content is a cop out, then I have bad news, almost everything in the game FDev have already done is a cop out by that measure. In fact I would agree with that with regards to USS....

What would you suggest to make the universe more interesting then ?

No, I don't have a single problem with procedural generation; the game rightfully wouldn't exist without it.

I simply have issue with PoIs being the centrepoint of an exploration improvement. Procedural generation unfortunately has limits; it can still only provide content variable within its own confines, and once you've explored what FD could think up, we're back to square one.

I guess the principle objection is to the term "unique". If you knew your programming, you would know procedural generation does not produce conceptually unique content. Can you roam the galaxy and scan a star about to change phase by itself, or a planet that was smashed in half by another body? No - all bodies in the galaxy are of a given pre-programmed class; procedural generation can piece together systems automatically for FD, but it can't dream up what to put in them.

What you've effectively created then is persistent PoIs, and honestly, PoIs are one of most damned aspects of ED by the community.

I don't claim to hold all the answers, but anything short of a full-on revamp will be poorly received. I could put ideas forwards but they would be little more than pipe dreams.
 
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No, I don't have a single problem with procedural generation; the game rightfully wouldn't exist without it.

I simply have issue with PoIs being the centrepoint of an exploration improvement. Procedural generation unfortunately has limits; it can still only provide content variable within its own confines, and once you've explored what FD could think up, we're back to square one.

I guess the principle objection is to the term "unique". If you knew your programming, you would know procedural generation does not produce conceptually unique content. Can you roam the galaxy and scan a star about to change phase by itself, or a planet that was smashed in half by another body? No - all bodies in the galaxy are of a given pre-programmed class; procedural generation can piece together systems automatically for FD, but it can't dream up what to put in them.

What you've effectively created then is persistent PoIs, and honestly, PoIs are one of most damned aspects of ED by the community.

I don't claim to hold all the answers, but anything short of a full-on revamp will be poorly received. I could put ideas forwards but they would be little more than pipe dreams.


This sounds much more reasonable, I can work with this :)

For me what I want is things to find. Whether it's wrecks , alien ruins , forgotten probes or as you suggest collapsing stars , maybe comets, so a mix of natural and unnatural things. That's all I ask for from exploration. (that and the improved mechanics I'm not going into ).

I understand the limitations of procedural generation. If you have a million possible variations , technically they might not all be unique but you can make it pretty close to it. Take the NPC's in the game , you proceduraly generated them using the character creator, and give them a procedural history, and you have the crew we employ in our ships, they are to all intents and purposes unique random NPCs.

The system I envisage works closely enough to be unique I think that you would be constantly surprised.

It works by modifiers, so by creating assets and mixing them together and modifying them you create large variations, much like the NPC generator. Species, tech level , age and degradation all layer on top of each with other random variables to create uniqueness.

As for your example of the star changing phase you could very well do that procedurally.

As you point out the stellar forge gives each star a type an age etc, so it would be trivial to calculate it's life span the phases of it's life therefore could be stored, in what ever level of detail you desired.

For the sake of argument lets say its some made up type of star that will collapse into a blackhole in a week. And it fortunately starts right now. You jump into the system and find a star in the first stages of collapse, come back in the middle of the week and it would be mid way, and come next week you will find a black hole. As cosmic events normally take a pretty long time you wouldn't even have to concern your self with someone being in the instance watching it happen, you could put in supernovas etc relatively easily. Of course as you only get one in our galaxy every 50 years or so it would be pretty unlikely. Maybe they've done it and we just wont see it.

With regards to the loot being unique, the item doesn't exist in the DB until claimed, if a player finds say an abandoned human mining base and gets lets say a giant diamond worth some cash. Next time a player visits the server has a simple flag on that item and doesn't generate the goodies again. Minimizing the server footprint.
 
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As a result of this I've started coding my own version of the Stellar Forge :) Might be a space exploration game on the .... horizon hehe

So far have the galaxy generating and the data for system formed by accretion around the sun. Based on an old Accretion algorithm, so it's not completely up to date with modern astrophysics. But it will do for now. Working on rendering the solar system now, first with simple planets, just got to conquer the scale issues. Floating point precision etc.

Once that's done I will make the extinct civilisation system I outlined above.

FDev how are you doing it! Double precision coordinates system ? Player relative frame of reference?
 
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FDev how are you doing it! Double precision coordinates system ? Player relative frame of reference?

Unfortunately, I had to miss the talk about Stellar Forge at FE17 (too much else to do there, and the queue to get in was massive !), so I don't know what level of detail was gone into.

Apparently, it was recorded, but may "not be of suitable quality to put on the YouTube channel" - I don't care tbh, I'd like to see how it's done, even if I have to squint at blobby pixels on the screen and try and hear over the sound of people breathing heavily... it just adds to the experience of being there ! :)

Anyway, if it ever gets put up, you may get some answers... or not *shrugs*

Good luck either way ! :)
 
Unfortunately, I had to miss the talk about Stellar Forge at FE17 (too much else to do there, and the queue to get in was massive !), so I don't know what level of detail was gone into.

Apparently, it was recorded, but may "not be of suitable quality to put on the YouTube channel" - I don't care tbh, I'd like to see how it's done, even if I have to squint at blobby pixels on the screen and try and hear over the sound of people breathing heavily... it just adds to the experience of being there ! :)

Anyway, if it ever gets put up, you may get some answers... or not *shrugs*

Good luck either way ! :)

I did not know about this , I'd be VERY interested in seeing it. If anyone has it please let me know!
 
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