Explorers - FYI on Short / Long Range Plotting beyond 3000 LY.

shadragon · Mar 22, 2015

My apologies if this has already been noted, but I couldn't find any relevant threads about this issue.

For those of you who already know, I'm out exploring the galaxy. I noted I was having issues laying in long distance course plots in my exploration log about 3300 LY out.

My Exploration Log (Link)

This resulted in my not being able to go in the direction I wanted as the computer kept giving me this:

I typically lay in a 750-900 LY course in the direction I want to go then follow that until I quit the game. However, I was being told I could not do that in a particular area of space even though I could see stars close enough to traverse. I backtracked, did a "Great Circle Route" in short hops around the blockage and kept on going. However, this morning I got the same "Route unavailable," even over a 145 LY distance.

I looked at the galactic map and noticed the spider web lines that come out from my position like this:

Those lines went out up to 100 LY from my position in all directions. I noted those lines were uninterrupted in the direction I wanted to go. The same direction that the long distance plots refused to plot.

I plotted a course to a star 94 LY away (which was connected by the spider web lines) and carried on. When I got there, I opened up the galactic map and sure enough, the spider web lines not only extended to the star I had initially wanted to go to, but beyond. I traveled a total of 550 LY today by plotting using this method even though any plot past 100LY kept saying "Route unavailable".

On reflection, I'm sure this would have worked for me in the other area, but I'm not going to turn around to check. It looks like this issue began when I hit the 3,000 LY range away from SOL. I'm now carrying on using the short range plotting method.

Hope this helps someone in the same situation. Not sure if I should ticket this or not as I'm not sure if anyone else has this issue???

jonne · Mar 22, 2015

What area was this? Are you sure it wasn't just closed by FD for future game content?

shadragon · Mar 22, 2015

I was inside there with no issue. It was getting out of the area that caused me the issues.

Allitnil · Mar 22, 2015

It's an issue in areas where the star density is low compared to your jump range. Probably (mostly) to do with routes where there is something of a switchback. I would imagine that the routing algorithm is coded in such a way that it gives up looking at an option once it would require more than a small amount of backtracking. That helps keep it fast in 'normal' areas but is always likely to struggle when the only possible routes are fairly convoluted.

I've also noticed a few other oddities such as giving a route to system X that passes through system Y, but won't give one to just Y. I've also had it give a route to system Z and if I exited the sim part way along the route, when I rejoined it would no longer give a route to Z (that could have been down to fuel levels, but I invariably fill up the tank before plotting a long route so it shouldn't have been an issue). But these sort of things only seem to occur in low density regions.

One slightly funny route I had was to a system 999 LY away - it actually went through a system that was over 1000 LY distant from the starting point. But of course, it wouldn't even give the option of trying to calculate a route to that system!

shadragon · Mar 23, 2015

Could this be because the inner systems have X,Y, and Z coordinates and the outer ones do not?

shadragon · Mar 23, 2015

Allitnil said:
Probably (mostly) to do with routes where there is something of a switchback. I would imagine that the routing algorithm is coded in such a way that it gives up looking at an option once it would require more than a small amount of backtracking. That helps keep it fast in 'normal' areas but is always likely to struggle when the only possible routes are fairly convoluted.

Sorry, I missed this part of your post. Was late when I replied. Yes, I agree completely. The long range plotting can't handle the smallest of switchbacks, but the short range radiating course plots that go out to 100 LY can. I'll be using the short range method from here out. It forces me to look at the chart and I have noticed a couple of neat things I probably would have missed with the long distance plot.

Vasious · Mar 23, 2015

Based on the few lines on the spider web in pic 2 i'd agree with those that say it might be due to a lack of star density so that there might not be a suitable route.

I got the same when I traveled up too far and some places were just out or reach due to jump range. It May have been 492 light years "as the crow flies" but in a direct route there will be one jump that is beyond your jump range so the route planner tries to plot a route around that "jump too far" and the way around turns out to be over 1000 light years and it says "Route unavailable"

shadragon · Mar 23, 2015

Vasious said:
Based on the few lines on the spider web in pic 2 i'd agree with those that say it might be due to a lack of star density so that there might not be a suitable route.

I got the same when I traveled up too far and some places were just out or reach due to jump range. It May have been 492 light years "as the crow flies" but in a direct route there will be one jump that is beyond your jump range so the route planner tries to plot a route around that "jump too far" and the way around turns out to be over 1000 light years and it says "Route unavailable"

There was no distance too great for me to jump over the route. The 492 was just an example. I couldn't do it over 145 LY, but it was not because of jump distance. I proved that by manually jumping to where I wanted to go along the same route. The problem is there is no consideration for switchbacks. The long range plot program will only look away from the point of origin toward the final star from its current position, not back. Here is an example.

Whiterose · Mar 23, 2015

I agree as I am having the same issue. 3,500LY from Empire space (no idea how far from Sol). I am jumping between arms of ther galaxy, stars are few but not that few. I have navigation set on fastest. I am plotting short routes like yourself, but only one or two systems at a time. It would be nice to do this over a larger range. I find the routes are blocked more often if the route is set to economical as well.

_Dastardly_ · Mar 23, 2015

Whiterose said:
I agree as I am having the same issue. 3,500LY from Empire space (no idea how far from Sol). I am jumping between arms of ther galaxy, stars are few but not that few. I have navigation set on fastest. I am plotting short routes like yourself, but only one or two systems at a time. It would be nice to do this over a larger range. I find the routes are blocked more often if the route is set to economical as well.

One important thing to note.

The route planner does not take into account fuel usage, and always assumes you have maximum fuel for each and every jump. Where in reality we tend to Jump, Jump, Jump, Jump, (halfway tank) fuel scoop. Therefore if you were lower on fuel at the point you could jump further and get across a gap that the route planner does not even see because of it's assumption.... Make sense?

shadragon · Mar 23, 2015

_Dastardly_ said:
One important thing to note.

The route planner does not take into account fuel usage, and always assumes you have maximum fuel for each and every jump. Where in reality we tend to Jump, Jump, Jump, Jump, (halfway tank) fuel scoop. Therefore if you were lower on fuel at the point you could jump further and get across a gap that the route planner does not even see because of it's assumption.... Make sense?

It does. I was able to fill at almost every star. As I said, the jumping was no issue. It is the inability of the long range plot to handle switchbacks.

Whiterose · Mar 23, 2015

Sort of....except that I always have a full tank. The trick is to fly close to the star, start scooping at 30%, scan, look at the system map, by the time you have done all that the tank is full. The jump range is not an issue at the moment, nor is plotting it star by star, that way I plot my own route, rather than have the route plotted by every Y,L and T stars, lol.

I would still prefer to plot my own route if possible, click by click, not sure how difficult this would be going forward.

flyboychuckles · Mar 23, 2015

I had the same thing happen to me when I went up, the stars spaced out and were at distances just over my jump range. While it would be nice to just click and go, I did find it rewarding for me to have to spend a few minutes in the galaxy map and figure out, "okay, if I jump 80 ly horizontally, then I can go vertically again and double back." It keeps the macro game of navigating the unknown when exploring fun for me.

Kancro Vantas · Mar 23, 2015

_Dastardly_ said:
One important thing to note.

The route planner does not take into account fuel usage, and always assumes you have maximum fuel for each and every jump. Where in reality we tend to Jump, Jump, Jump, Jump, (halfway tank) fuel scoop. Therefore if you were lower on fuel at the point you could jump further and get across a gap that the route planner does not even see because of it's assumption.... Make sense?

Whiterose said:
Sort of....except that I always have a full tank. The trick is to fly close to the star, start scooping at 30%, scan, look at the system map, by the time you have done all that the tank is full. The jump range is not an issue at the moment, nor is plotting it star by star, that way I plot my own route, rather than have the route plotted by every Y,L and T stars, lol.

I would still prefer to plot my own route if possible, click by click, not sure how difficult this would be going forward.

Also, remember that maximum jump is not necessarily achieved with tank full....I often let it dry to only 20% of the tank where my Asp reaches the max range because of the fuel mass...so max fuel tank does not equate to max jump range....quite the opposite..

With that being said...in the plotter you would expect first few legs shorter than the last few legs where you are supposed to be lighter if didnt refuel...

Whiterose · Mar 23, 2015

Kancro Vantas said:
Also, remember that maximum jump is not necessarily achieved with tank full....I often let it dry to only 20% of the tank where my Asp reaches the max range because of the fuel mass...so max fuel tank does not equate to max jump range....quite the opposite..

With that being said...in the plotter you would expect first few legs shorter than the last few legs where you are supposed to be lighter if didnt refuel...

Good point....was forgetting the mass of the fuel (palm hits face)..

shadragon · Mar 23, 2015

Whiterose said:
Good point....was forgetting the mass of the fuel (palm hits face)..

Just make sure if you are at 20% fuel that the star you are going to is scoopable. OR that you have enough to get back without scooping. Talk about a 'palm in face' moment.

thehairymob · Mar 29, 2015

I thought it was a bug as I have been having issues with plotting as well. Even short jumps seem to be causing problems for the route planner. Just have to go back to old school shorter ranges and keep heading for the target system. I'll get there eventually.

Deaten · Jun 14, 2015

My map is not plotting routs at all...everything simply says unable to route or plot, whatever the red tag says...I have fuel (Always Full) so thats not an issue...along with my ship which is the python. I simply can't even fly to the next system to me. Everything I try to plot a course says it's unable to. I'm in the Erevate area if that may make any difference. 2 weeks ago it was fine...now for the last week and a half I have to memorize how tho get to where I need to and through what systems. Which is rediculous. I logged in today and still the map is the same way. Any help would be great. I just can't continue to play this game if I can't plot a course and get where I need to. And it has caused me to have to abandon missions because I can't get there. And before anyone brings up that I am trying to plot a course to far or something to that effect...I'm not an idiot, since this issue has been happening I cant even plot the system next to me, I have to free flight there. This also is the same in both open play and solo play...Someone please help. I hate having paid for something I cant use...