Explorers - Should they lose their data upon ship destruction?

[Lord_Crazy]

I just come from the following thread, where OP lost all his exploration data after being blown by pirates on his way back to civilized space. I am not discussing whether or not OP was reckless by going explore with a mere stock Sidewinder. Rather I would like to focus on a very interesting point OP raised: a black box system (all the credit goes to Tesshin for bringing that up, thank you!).

The idea would be to prevent exploration data from being fully lost when a ship is destroyed, a bit like cargo, which can partly be saved despite ship destruction.

The poll is simple: do you agree with the current system whereby data are completely lost when a ship is destroyed, or would you prefer an alternative? Among them please consider:
- data bound to the pilot, explorers would never lose their data (too extreme IMHO and making exploring a one way trip only for those too lazy to fly back to civilized space);
- fully encrypted black box system: an explorer could go back to the crash site and retrieve its data, or a part of them if the black box is damaged. Only the explorer could use the data due to full encryption (no risk of pirating);
- clear (no encryption) black box system with data tied to explorer: black box usable by anyone, but data bound to the explorer. Selling the black box would reward the finder but also the original explorer (possibly appealing to pirates, but explorers would still get a part of the reward);
- clear (no encryption) black box system, data not tied to the explorer: this is pretty much like a regular cargo: a black box can be found/stolen and traded by anyone, with the full profit going the the person selling the data (highest threat of pirating, data would become like a cargo).

Please consider that these choices would effect the risk of exploring: binding the data to the explorer and not the ship would make exploring very easy, too easy some might say. On the other hand using a black box system would make data subject to piracy like any other cargo, so that exploring would become more risky.

What do you think?

 

[streki]

You've missed an option on your poll....(also from the other thread).....

...Standard Finders Fee.

If I get killed by a pirate when carrying 100 million worth of hard earned data, I have no problem if the pirate is awarded 100k by the station that he hands the black box to, as long as I can reclaim the black box by paying even 110k to the station - as long as I get back my 100 million worth of data. Everybody wins.

The risk for me is that I really don't know what my data is worth...it may be less than the buy-back cost...that's for me to gamble with.

 

[Lord_Crazy]

You've missed an option on your poll....(also from the other thread).....

...Standard Finders Fee.

If I get killed by a pirate when carrying 100 million worth of hard earned data, I have no problem if the pirate is awarded 100k by the station that he hands the black box to, as long as I can reclaim the black box by paying even 110k to the station - as long as I get back my 100 million worth of data. Everybody wins.

The risk for me is that I really don't know what my data is worth...it may be less than the buy-back cost...that's for me to gamble with.

Well I used "share" which might be a bit fussy. But I am sure people will understand the general idea, regardless of the amount of the finder's fee.

 

[Captain w00t]

It's a great idea, your data should be stored in Black box available to be picked up. Either option is fine imo (private/public pickup)

 

[Lord_Crazy]

I think we shouldn't try to fix what isn't broken.

Data is stored in the ship, when ship goes boom, data goes boom. We should be thankful our selves don't go boom as well in the process. The escape pod itself is an extremely gamey cop-out already, since you explode 400 billion lightyears away, and can be back in action in seconds. I don't think we should increase the gameyness of the cop-out.

I agree with the fact that the current system is not broken. But it does not mean it could not be improved. Data are valuable, and having them stored somewhere and therefore retrievable and subject to being stolen makes sense in my opinion. We talked about exploration data but that could also be true with bounty or combat bonds. The idea is to make data more similar to a commodity, which would create more gameplay opportunity. Being back to the core to salvage what's left from my ASP that I lost in my first trip could be very funny. Also, it could become competitive has other explorers might want to get my black box.
So yeah it is not about fixing, but improving.

 

[Arkantes]

I think we shouldn't try to fix what isn't broken.

Data is stored in the ship, when ship goes boom, data goes boom. We should be thankful our selves don't go boom as well in the process. The escape pod itself is an extremely gamey cop-out already, since you explode 400 billion lightyears away, and can be back in action in seconds. I don't think we should increase the gameyness of the cop-out.

In 3300 I expect to see exabytes USB sticks. That the data goes boom with the ship doesn't even make any sense given how little data we actually gather. All your data could be stored in your suit, or even in your seat (which is ejected and turns into an escape pod).

 

[babelfisch]

Just a quick heads up: The whole black box idea is not new and most likely already planned by FDEV since release. Visit the official ED homepage and look for the combat description:

It is a cut-throat galaxy out there, and combat is a basic skill that you need to survive.
The Pilots Federation place bounties on the heads of anyone who is seen killing its members - Commanders who kill another member immediately get a bounty on their head. You can claim these bounties by hunting and killing the culprits.
For the less scrupulous - Why buy a hold full of cargo, when you can pirate it from someone else? Why go to the bother of exploring a system to sell the data, when you can simply take it from them by force?
The ongoing conflicts between the galactic superpowers also provide you with a plentiful supply of different missions to choose if you want to earn cash from them. There are assassination missions you can carry out for individuals, or you can be a hired gun, helping one (or all) of the superpowers in the wars which flare up across the galaxy.
Every time you and every other commander undertake a mission, the outcome has an impact on the galaxy as a whole for everyone, so your experience is ever-unfold

 

[Lord_Crazy]

I don't think increasing the gameyness of a feature is an improvement. I did expand my reasoning beyond that first catchphrase

No offense, but you simply stated that you find the current escape pod gamey. It does not follow that creating a black box system would itself be gamey as well. IMHO it actually makes sense: unlike the escape pod thingy, a black box would not teleport itself back to last starport you visited, you would have to go to the crash site and investigate yourself to see what can be retrieved. It is like cargo when a ship is destroyed. I don't think the cargo system is gamey.

 

[jgm]

If it was changed for exploration data it would have to coincide with something similar for bounties and the introduction of cargo insurance, so that there would be similar abilities across the three main professions.

 

[Lord_Crazy]

Ok, lets play this game. How fast does an escape pod travel? If you're blown up 5,000 Ly from civilisation, how long should it take to be able to play again? 1 hour? 2? See, I was talking about the gamey bone we're thrown when we get the ability to pay the insurance company and set off again within seconds. That also doesn't make sense. So that should be adjusted as well?

My point is not to add to that gameyness by using it as a vehicle for more safety nets.

OK we get your point. But the poll clearly has options whereby you would have to flight back to your crash site, which in no case would let you retrieve your data within second. Please note that I also created an option for that mechanism ("Yes, I would like explorers to never lose their data, even upon death.") but it has not been checked by anyone yet.
Giving people an opportunity to find their data back does not necessarily involve that it should be easy or automatic. You can actually create a gameplay around it and make it difficult to deal with. Personally I don't want a system whereby all my data would follow me even upon destruction. That's why I love the black box idea: it requires people to go look after there stuff, and usually to find out that someone already get there, you might even fight to reclaim what is yours

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

You are right, that was related to posts made in the other thread and one you seem to disagree with as well. "too extreme IMHO and ... "

Yup I see we both agree
Also I am glad to notice that after 30 votes no one checked the extreme option!

 

[Greyhawk]

the problem with the black box idea is nothing in this game is persistent. When you went back to where you crashed its a fresh instance of that part of space so there would be no sign of your black box.

At least I've never found a single case of instance to instance persistence beyond following a FSD wake. If you drop out of FSD then immediately go back, everyone is now gone and will be replaced with new NPC ships.

Makes me think keeping instances open would cause the system to fall over very very quickly - especially if the explorer decides to log out for a few days before going back for his black box.

I think the only way to do it would be to spawn the cylinder in a WSS in the last sector you were in which means no finders fee as the instance would only spawn for the explorer.

 

[DrakeAurum]

In 3300 I expect to see exabytes USB sticks. That the data goes boom with the ship doesn't even make any sense given how little data we actually gather. All your data could be stored in your suit, or even in your seat (which is ejected and turns into an escape pod).

What gives you the impression that it's only a little data? My impression is that we're bringing back highly detailed surface and sub-surface scans suitable for planetary mapping and mineral deposit surveys. It isn't something you can just put in your pocket.

 

[Bacon Sarnie]

When a ship goes boom it goes boom and all data is lost. I do however have a caveat.
Yes there should be a black box, but the black box should contain info such as what was happening to the ship, what instruments were being used and a diagnostic of the ships systems.
I doubt any black box would record everywhere the ship has been and all the info on every planet, star, asteroid field the ship has scanned.
The black box would as in real life provide the info needed by investigators to determine what cause the ship to crash/splode whatever.
FYI, Im currently over 500ly out with a lot of date gathered and yes I worry about something happening and my ship going pop, but I realise we cant have everything we want.

 

[streki]

If it was changed for exploration data it would have to coincide with something similar for bounties and the introduction of cargo insurance, so that there would be similar abilities across the three main professions.

Only if bounty hunters promised to hunt bounties for two months before collecting their rewards....the point being that exploration data is unique in terms of loss.

Get killed bounty hunting = wastes an hour of your time.

Get killed after a trip to the core = you've just lost 3 weeks of dedicated progression.

 

[Lord_Crazy]

If it was changed for exploration data it would have to coincide with something similar for bounties and the introduction of cargo insurance, so that there would be similar abilities across the three main professions.

Well the OP is about exploration data but I don't see why it should not apply to any type of data, including bounties and combat bounds in my opinion. On the other hand cargo insurance does not follow: when your ship is destroyed your cargo does not always follow the same fate so that you may go back and try to salvage what's left. Insurance is another (tangential) issue.

 

[babelfisch]

Thx for the heads up. Note to self: be back before 1.3 is implemented.

Don't take my words for granted though. It's just my interpretation.

 

[Varrag]

I think it's okay the way it is. If and when they introduce some additional danger (other than getting cooked by binary stars, or falling asleep and crashing into the star), then MAYBE black box might be useful; right now it would take away that little risk we have, and lack of risk is not fun.

My humble opinion.

 

[Ydiss]

I think it's fine as it is (so I voted as such). But I also like the idea of the black box, to be rediscovered by any player. So I voted for that too.

 

[DrakeAurum]

Only if bounty hunters promised to hunt bounties for two months before collecting their rewards....the point being that exploration data is unique in terms of loss.

Not entirely. Bounty hunters with KWS will often accumulate days' worth of out-of-system bounties before making the trp to hand them in.

On the other hand I do agree that there's a unique emotional loss associated with exploration data - it represents both a record of a journey and the achievement of discovery.

 

[Polared]

penultimate option would be my preference, but with a % degradation/loss. it would give the player a chance to recover the data as well as the chance somebody else could salvage it, but then again i am bias, i want salvage in the game!