Exploring for profit vs. exploring for the experience

Hi all

Like what seems to be a very sizeable chunk of the player base, based on various polls and opinions I have seen, I am very interested in the potential exploration options that ED offers.

However, what is on my mind right now is that there seem to be two very distinct ideas about what exploration actually is, and I'm curious to see what people think here.

The first idea- and this is very much backed up by the DDF discussions- is exploration as a viable career/profit path. This is about discovering new areas and either a. making use of what you find there for profit or b. selling the navigation info to the authorities (as the DDF describes).

The second idea is those who want to explore for no reason other than the experience of exploration itself, for the joy of seeing new things and recording their experiences; of setting off into the effectively infinite space that ED offers and see what is out there.

This isn't digital of course. It's not as if the first group isn't interested in the experience and the second is not interested in money. Yet I do feel there are two distinct needs here that may be being conflated when people talk of 'exploration'.

For example, I am in the first group- I want to make money from it, as a non-PvP way of making a career akin to trading- still armed for trouble (again, as the DDF makes out) in case I find something unpleasant but mainly dedicated to the commercial finding of 'stuff'. Hence, when I am hearing about how exploration will work, I am interested in the game mechanics of how to benefit from it- how do I make the money, who is buying navigation data, what kind of data is worth more, where should I go to make the best margin, what the expenses are on exploration gear, how hard is it to find new places using exploration equipment, what kind of claims can I make on valuable stuff I find etc. My questions are all mechanically focussed to my career advantage. I like the idea of being the equivalent of a medieval/renaissance style explorer who goes and finds things... and then comes home to fame and fortune.

But a lot of the questions from people I am seeing seem to relate to those more interested in the second area. For example, a lot of the questions I am hearing are about deep space refuelling and auto-repair. The basis of these questions seems to be from people that are planning to get going and, perhaps, never stop, and hence they need to think forever about fuel and fixing. From my point of view, these questions aren't quite so relevant as, although I'll presumably want hard-wearing gear that doesn't burn out quickly, I'm never planning to be so far from civilised space that I can't run for home if my ship is badly damaged or the fuel situation is critical. These questions, whilst inevitably involving game mechanics, are mostly focussed on ways to prolong this particular experience for as long as possible rather than 'advancing', as it were, in the game.

What it comes down to is that, although I want to be an explorer, I actually plan to come home. Rather a lot. But a lot of posts I have seen from those who want to be explorers implies that they, perhaps, never want to come home, or at least they want to come home as little as possible as required to keep pushing at the edges.

So my thinking in setting up this thread is twofold. First- am I in a minority here? Are many explorers much more interested in the pure experience than my rather functional view of it?

Secondly, if there are two such groups, is there a risk that when it comes to talking about 'exploration', there are actually two distinct ideas here that are easily confused? The DDF discussion on exploration is an example here- as someone interested in the functional practicalities of it, the DDF is full of useful information to me. But for those interested in just heading on 'out there',, there's much less relevant information- after all, what would they care about selling navigational information? They aren't planning to come back to sell it. If you are interested in going on forever, the DDF has far less useful info. The broad brush of 'exploration' may be a tad too broad.

Thanks for reading, Any thoughts?
 
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As a budding explorer myself, I had the idea that I will enjoy being out there for the sheer experience of exploring, but if I find any profitable resources like ore in an asteroid belt or whatever, all the better. Staying out in deep space exploring the entire time is a touch extreme for me, and I intend to head back to homeworld space once Ive found enough to make a bit of dosh and pay for some ship maintenance and upgrades.

So I will explore for the joy of exploring, but intend to make some coin while Im at it...
 
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same here..... my prime goal is to explore as much of the galaxy as time allows. if i make some credits on the way thats fine.
 
It has been mentioned that groups of players will be able to get further out, i'm not sure if we'll be able to drop persistent supply bases to allow for extra long range exploration.

Maybe there will be ways to fix the ship and keep going that are discoverable, maybe there are super long range items that can be purchased or modified from standard gear.

I think everyone will have to come back at some point or the ship will fall apart or you just wont have enough credits to keep it going.
 
I like games where you see new stuff, so like others have said, I will be exploring for the joy of it, and even more so when planetary landing is in the game. That, and the accompanying soundtrack, was the thing I loved about Guild Wars, as you progressed, you saw ever more beautiful and strange terrain, it was a big part of what made that a great game. I'm sure it will be the case with Elite Dangerous too, which is exactly why I'm looking forward to it and exactly why I threw money at it.
 
For me the motivation will be profit. I don't really care about pretty new scenery unless there's an upgrade in power or money associated with it.
 
I'm in the second group and would hope to travel far and discover a lot. However this may not be possible due to many factors. I'll need scoops for fuel and droids for repairs, but there's also the issue of scanning and discovering a new jump point into an unexplored system, and I'm afraid those scan probes will be limited on how many you can take with you. So most likely everyone who wants to do deep space exploration will always have to come back to civilized space to resupply. I will likely end up slowly making a path out into the unknown, returning to sell my findings and gearing back up for another round. If I could travel 10,000 ly before returning I would.
 
It's certainly interesting to see how many people are prioritising the experience above the money, and only want to come home as much as they are basically forced to. Personally, I'd like to come home and roam around civilised space for a while with my flashy upgraded ship, play with some friends, see some local sights etc, and then plunge back out on another money making tour. Spending time at home enjoying my profits is part of the experience for me, or so I hope. Similarly, if I find, say, a super-mineral rich asteroid, is my exploration craft going to have the cargo pod to make practical use of that? If I have a friend with a decent trading vessel, I'd like to invite him a long to share it- but I can't do that if I am half the galaxy away. I'll need to stay relatively close.

Do you super-exploration guys feel you have much information about how long-term exploration will work? Was anyone here involved in the DDF discussion on exploration? Was there any focus on thye semi-permanent style of exploration there? From the first paragraph of the revised thread onwards:

http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6561

... it makes it clear that the focus is on exploration for profit. There doesn't seem to be much there at all about, say, how far out you can go and by what means you can sustain yourself. As I mentioned, I'm in it for the money so that thread suits me fine, but it doesn't seem to have considered much those who just want to fly on out there.
 
I hope, no... I am sure Elite Dangerous will combine the two options.
I want to explore and experience beautiful, awe inspiring stuff; I want to see the rings of Saturn, see incredible nebula's, discover enormous and mysterious Alien artifacts floating in space.

And I also want to profit from my explorations.
I believe there will be opportunities.
I can do some 'hunting' while being in awe at the same time.
While pulling the trigger and blowing my prey to smithereens I can also admire a beautiful asteroid field :).
 
I believe the Firefly mode of space life is what I'm going for. Making money on the edge of the law to keep flying.

So profiteering, exploring, and fighting for me, in that order. But I plan on being damn good at the last one, lest anyone think about grabbing an easy kill. :)
 
It's certainly interesting to see how many people are prioritising the experience above the money, and only want to come home as much as they are basically forced to. Personally, I'd like to come home and roam around civilised space for a while with my flashy upgraded ship, play with some friends, see some local sights etc, and then plunge back out on another money making tour. Spending time at home enjoying my profits is part of the experience for me, or so I hope. Similarly, if I find, say, a super-mineral rich asteroid, is my exploration craft going to have the cargo pod to make practical use of that? If I have a friend with a decent trading vessel, I'd like to invite him a long to share it- but I can't do that if I am half the galaxy away. I'll need to stay relatively close.

Do you super-exploration guys feel you have much information about how long-term exploration will work? Was anyone here involved in the DDF discussion on exploration? Was there any focus on thye semi-permanent style of exploration there? From the first paragraph of the revised thread onwards:

http://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=6561

... it makes it clear that the focus is on exploration for profit. There doesn't seem to be much there at all about, say, how far out you can go and by what means you can sustain yourself. As I mentioned, I'm in it for the money so that thread suits me fine, but it doesn't seem to have considered much those who just want to fly on out there.

There has been a lot of discussion over making good reasons for people to explore and how it's far it's going to be possible to go, i suspect there have been deliberate attempts to keep us in mild suspense so we don't have a hard distance limit to think about.

Different ship configurations (and maybe player skill if getting the jumps right gives you more distance or less ship stresses) will effect things as well as how long you are willing to risk catastrophic ship failure for will all add to the problem of maximum range.

It was mentioned somewhere by a dev that multiple players will be able to work together to extend range, maybe by effectively acting as base camps or using different ship equipment to keep each other going, a tanker with fuel scoop or a repair ship, or some escorts for unexpected combat are three possibilities that spring to mind.
 
There has been a lot of discussion over making good reasons for people to explore and how it's far it's going to be possible to go, i suspect there have been deliberate attempts to keep us in mild suspense so we don't have a hard distance limit to think about.

Different ship configurations (and maybe player skill if getting the jumps right gives you more distance or less ship stresses) will effect things as well as how long you are willing to risk catastrophic ship failure for will all add to the problem of maximum range.

It was mentioned somewhere by a dev that multiple players will be able to work together to extend range, maybe by effectively acting as base camps or using different ship equipment to keep each other going, a tanker with fuel scoop or a repair ship, or some escorts for unexpected combat are three possibilities that spring to mind.

I believe there is a mechanic that allows you to follow through hyperspace jump wormholes (or whatever they are) and consume less/no fuel. Maybe less wear and tear too.
2 people alternating initiation of hyperspace travel will go further than one person alone (think leap frog). The more people you have the more the range you can explore increases.
 
I believe there is a mechanic that allows you to follow through hyperspace jump wormholes (or whatever they are) and consume less/no fuel. Maybe less wear and tear too.
2 people alternating initiation of hyperspace travel will go further than one person alone (think leap frog). The more people you have the more the range you can explore increases.

Makes sense but i suspect with fuel scoops available fuel wont be the limiting factor, repairs and cumulative damage from combat and lack of maintenance might cause more of an issue?
 
If you can get organised that would be fantastic, but the limitations of RL on my gametime means that I'll have to be the lone starship out in the void...

Space. The Final Frontier...
 
I, too, want to do exploration for its own sake. I see the profit side only as a means to cover potential expenses. That said, a fuel scoop obviously will be something mandatory on my ship.:D
 
I like exploration because im getting a feeling like im digging for gold. Don't get me wrong. I like sightseeing too. But it's getting old soon, if there are no additional "stimulating" factors like roids full of gems or other rare materials.

I hope they implement a good crafting system into the game. Would be a blast if all the high-end gear can only be crafted when you find special, very rare minerals. This would make the exploration really worthwhile. :D

So instead of buying a shield you need to bring in 100 Tons of Awesomnyte, a very rare mineral. This mineral can be optained as a mission reward, by trading it with rarely found Awesomnyte-mining-outposts or by mining it yourself. So every play-style has the chance to get it. :D

This could bring more long time motivation to exploration than just making money by mining or salvaging(or robbing poor pirates or treasure-vaults).
 
Hi all

Like what seems to be a very sizeable chunk of the player base, based on various polls and opinions I have seen, I am very interested in the potential exploration options that ED offers.

However, what is on my mind right now is that there seem to be two very distinct ideas about what exploration actually is, and I'm curious to see what people think here.

The first idea- and this is very much backed up by the DDF discussions- is exploration as a viable career/profit path. This is about discovering new areas and either a. making use of what you find there for profit or b. selling the navigation info to the authorities (as the DDF describes).

The second idea is those who want to explore for no reason other than the experience of exploration itself, for the joy of seeing new things and recording their experiences; of setting off into the effectively infinite space that ED offers and see what is out there.

This isn't digital of course. It's not as if the first group isn't interested in the experience and the second is not interested in money. Yet I do feel there are two distinct needs here that may be being conflated when people talk of 'exploration'.

For example, I am in the first group- I want to make money from it, as a non-PvP way of making a career akin to trading- still armed for trouble (again, as the DDF makes out) in case I find something unpleasant but mainly dedicated to the commercial finding of 'stuff'. Hence, when I am hearing about how exploration will work, I am interested in the game mechanics of how to benefit from it- how do I make the money, who is buying navigation data, what kind of data is worth more, where should I go to make the best margin, what the expenses are on exploration gear, how hard is it to find new places using exploration equipment, what kind of claims can I make on valuable stuff I find etc. My questions are all mechanically focussed to my career advantage. I like the idea of being the equivalent of a medieval/renaissance style explorer who goes and finds things... and then comes home to fame and fortune.

But a lot of the questions from people I am seeing seem to relate to those more interested in the second area. For example, a lot of the questions I am hearing are about deep space refuelling and auto-repair. The basis of these questions seems to be from people that are planning to get going and, perhaps, never stop, and hence they need to think forever about fuel and fixing. From my point of view, these questions aren't quite so relevant as, although I'll presumably want hard-wearing gear that doesn't burn out quickly, I'm never planning to be so far from civilised space that I can't run for home if my ship is badly damaged or the fuel situation is critical. These questions, whilst inevitably involving game mechanics, are mostly focussed on ways to prolong this particular experience for as long as possible rather than 'advancing', as it were, in the game.

What it comes down to is that, although I want to be an explorer, I actually plan to come home. Rather a lot. But a lot of posts I have seen from those who want to be explorers implies that they, perhaps, never want to come home, or at least they want to come home as little as possible as required to keep pushing at the edges.

So my thinking in setting up this thread is twofold. First- am I in a minority here? Are many explorers much more interested in the pure experience than my rather functional view of it?

Secondly, if there are two such groups, is there a risk that when it comes to talking about 'exploration', there are actually two distinct ideas here that are easily confused? The DDF discussion on exploration is an example here- as someone interested in the functional practicalities of it, the DDF is full of useful information to me. But for those interested in just heading on 'out there',, there's much less relevant information- after all, what would they care about selling navigational information? They aren't planning to come back to sell it. If you are interested in going on forever, the DDF has far less useful info. The broad brush of 'exploration' may be a tad too broad.

Thanks for reading, Any thoughts?

I don't think confusion matters regarding these two types of 'Exploration'; I'll be doing both types any way:)
 
I think there is going to be a certain crossover with for-profit explorers and mining- depending on what sort of returns you can get on that. I can definitely see that as an area that for-profit explorers invest in where the for-experience explorers instead invest in potential self-repair and fuel gear.


I'm not sure crafting is going to be a thing in Elite- anyone know any different?
 
I don't think confusion matters regarding these two types of 'Exploration'; I'll be doing both types any way:)

Well my point here was that the DDF has one (well, two, but the second is a revision of the first) thread for exploration, but it is 99% about making money from it and has no information about range or self-maintenance, which are the sort of things that for-experience types are interested in. So the confusion can cause issues there, where information for 'explorers' really only covers one type and doesn't help a lot of people

And of course, everyone who explores will be interested in both money and experience to some degree. Nevertheless, there is a fundamentally different approach (and equipment needed) for those doing relatively near-space exploration for profit and those intending to plunge out in the VERY long term into the galaxy. It's not actually possible to do both at once, and it is very possible to do one and never the other.

Some people see exploration as a means to an end (i.e. it gets me better stuff). But for a lot of people (as this thread is bearing out), the exploration itself IS the end. That's what they are playing for. These two things don't quite entirely overlap; they are two distinct ways of playing.

I'm definitely with Kulin- some treasure hunting content would be neat.
 
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