Exploring, revamped.

[Altissimus]

There's 400,000,000,000 stars out there, and right now exploring is it's own reward - which is another way of saying it pays a pittance.

The "known" systems are counted in the few hundreds, maybe low thousands. Yet whereas they may not be in *your* ship's database, they are in someone else's...and therefore "discovering" them has been done. That's not exploring, that's updating your map. Yes, someone will pay a bit for that data, but it's not really worth a lot.

Now, a system that's never, ever, ever been mapped before, by anyone? THAT'S worth something! Or, at least, should be.

Here's my proposal:

Two types of exploration data.

The first is data that is from "already explored" systems. They would be listed in your galaxy map as "unknown". Someone would've already been there. The data is only worth something to systems that aren't local and, much like rare trading, would be worth a lot more to systems further away. A premium is paid at systems 150+ly away, increasing to 200+ly (max) like rare trades do currently. Prices are better than are currently paid (because it needs a "buff", to use the vernacular), but not silly money.

The second is data from systems that have never, ever been explored. They would be listed in your galaxy map as "unexplored". No one has ever been there. The data is worth a lot, to any system. (Perhaps richer systems would pay more than, say, a refinery system with one outpost). The further out you go, the more the system data is worth (again, following a rare-trading pattern, but with much larger distances). A full scan of a new system would be worth, say, 100kCr if it was "near" to populated space, and 1Mcr if it was 500 ly away. A round-trip of 10-20 brand new systems would now be worth the time and trouble. (Numbers to be adjusted so that that last statement is true).

FAQs:

Q: Great idea! But what happens if everyone else explores systems before I do / before new players?

A: With 400 billion systems, you should be safe for a while. With the 1000ly jump route coming in 1.1, it might also be helpful if you can search for unexplored systems.

Q: Wouldn't this allow you to do a mahoo-sive round trip and come back a millionaire?

A: Yes, absolutely...but risk vs reward, eh? The further out you go, the more danger you have of a mishap, a screen crack, and 15 minutes of life support left at 1200ly range.... A trip to a 500ly area, plus scanning of 10 systems in detail, plus flying back = what, 4 hours? Should easily pay 10Mcr, like trading but with a lot more risk.


So what do you think?

 

[Salkinius]

me likey

 

[WalterHWhite]

Good idea. To nit-pick, 1M credits would be too much. If they paid 500-600% more for truly unexplored systems I think that'd put exploring as a viable 'business'.

The returns are a little low at the moment, they just need increased, and your suggestion about distance/truly new makes sense.

 

[Tequila]

ofc full exploring some systems would be easy money when they only have a single star in them.

whichever way I put this - exploration is in need of another pass in it's current state it is financially not on par with combat/trade professions, let alone paint drying experience. More development needed. A retroactive buff to exploration rewards surely wouldn't go amiss either (sure i'm probably dreaming on this one lol)

Even giving further cash per system doesn't come close to the paint drying nature and lack of scaling in regards to your ship. At 2Mil credits is all you need to explore beyond which there is nothere is no scaling except more jump range, however jump range does not improve the scanning experience whilst in system.

More types of scanners are needed - better scan times as a result of scanning equipment, increased sensor resolution/range based on equipment etc...

I'd welcome any change/buff to the current system - perhaps exploration missions on the BBS.

 

[Altissimus]

Good idea. To nit-pick, 1M credits would be too much. If they paid 500-600% more for truly unexplored systems I think that'd put exploring as a viable 'business'.

The returns are a little low at the moment, they just need increased, and your suggestion about distance/truly new makes sense.

Thanks for the feedback. I am sure some balancing would need to be done on the numbers.

I've never actually explored (i.e., scanned in detail) a whole system before, but I can imagine it would take a while. Turning up and clicking an Advanced Scanner shouldn't be worth 1M, even for a whole new system. (Still be worth a good bit though). But fully surface-scanning every planet? Yes, this totally should be worth 1M. It takes ages! As that's only 20 mins of trading (no risk trading, at that), it should pay proportionally.

So you could go out a little ways, rapidly scan 10-20 systems with an advanced scanner, fly back, sell it. Or you could go out, find one system, scan the bejeezus out of everything in it, bring that back. Similar durations of time paying similar monies.

 

[N-Zed]

As I stated in the earlier thread - I love it, and I think it adds much needed value to the player. I would also like to add that it would be a nice little extra to have the system be tagged in some way, "Discovered by CMDR xxxx" for both bragging rights and incentive.

 

[Cmdr Moritz]

I don't really care about the game mechanics for exploring. The one and only thing that is keeping me from exploring is the lacking interaction between stellar bodies. (Accretion disks, stars eating each other etc) Right now its just so darn static, making it a pretty dull experience.

 

[Cyonan]

I like the idea of this to make exploring worthwhile from a credit point of view, as opposed to exploring being the thing I want to do but trading being the thing I do in order to outfit my ship for exploring.

I feel like exploration in general needs more fleshing out, but this is a good start to make it not a complete embarrassment in terms of how much credits you can make.

As it stands right now I made ~250k going to the Coalsack Nebula and back(about 500LY), which I can do in trading even with my Cobra in about an hour at most.

 

[dtungsten]

There is only one real change i would love to see to exploring and that is the Discovery Scanner / Detailed Surface Scanner options. I am all fine with needing both to get maximum payout, but I hate putting two Class 1 modules into two Class 2 internal slots. I think there should be additional equipment added to addresses this. For a corresponding pcrice increase, you should be able to purchase a combined unit that would fit into a class 2 internal slot.

 

[WalterHWhite]

>Turning up and clicking an Advanced Scanner shouldn't be worth 1M, even for a whole new system. (Still be worth a good bit though). But fully surface-scanning every planet? Yes, this totally should be worth 1M.

I'd disagree. You could spend an hour or two jumping out to somewhere you're fairly confident hasn't been explored. Spend 20 minutes per system and become a billionaire in a week.

Trading does make more but you're also doing it in populated systems and can be blown up (it's debateable how much 'risk' there is, particularly when some people have the idea of someone blowing you up to be morally wrong). When you're 500ly out, your only enemy is your own human error.

Here's a rough guide of payouts: http://lavewiki.com/_media/nsi1v08.jpg

Bump those up by 500% or so (you can make about 300K an hour just now). Double it for systems you fully explore.

Anyways I think your ideas are widely accepted, IMO you're just high on the numbers. A few hundred K per (interesting/useful) system would be closer to the ideal I think.

 

[Leo Sagan]

I like your ideas. But to be honest, at this point, I would gladly welcome any improvement to exploration : what we have now is really barebone.

 

[prophet1]

A full scan of a new system would be worth, say, 100kCr if it was "near" to populated space, and 1Mcr if it was 500 ly away. A round-trip of 10-20 brand new systems would now be worth the time and trouble. (Numbers to be adjusted so that that last statement is true).

FAQs:

Q: Great idea! But what happens if everyone else explores systems before I do / before new players?

A: With 400 billion systems, you should be safe for a while. With the 1000ly jump route coming in 1.1, it might also be helpful if you can search for unexplored systems.

Q: Wouldn't this allow you to do a mahoo-sive round trip and come back a millionaire?

A: Yes, absolutely...but risk vs reward, eh? The further out you go, the more danger you have of a mishap, a screen crack, and 15 minutes of life support left at 1200ly range.... A trip to a 500ly area, plus scanning of 10 systems in detail, plus flying back = what, 4 hours? Should easily pay 10Mcr, like trading but with a lot more risk.


So what do you think?

I voted No.

- I think the basic exploration payouts need to go up, maybe as high as 5-10x what we have now (unless they plan to add better payouts for level 2-3 scans in expansions later). But what you're proposing is massive overkill, imho. Trading should still be the most profitable venture (since it's also the least exciting), and I don't need exploration to pay anywhere near on the same scale - I'm not doing it for the money. Your suggestions would make me a billionaire after the first trip towards the core. In fact, by your numbers, I could turn back long before reaching the core and already afford a few Anacondas. No thanks. :/
- don't like the idea of payout determined by distance, current 20 ly limit is fine. Payout should be determined by the quantity and quality of what I scanned, not where I go to sell it.
- don't like the idea of limiting reward because someone else has been to this particular system. Many highest payout systems (such as the black hole at the center of the galaxy) are already known and being recorded/catalogued. It's not a fair system to new players who buy the game later on - they'll have to go further and further out to get to the unmapped systems as opposed to the early birds who'd have it easy.

 

[N-Zed]

You mean it would take effort to rake in BILLIONS exploring the fringes of space for new comers? Travesty.
Also it should matter the distance from your selling location to payout ratio, since the risk and time is FAR higher to go all the way out and back again. The pay out should be as high as it gets, and if not the pay out, some benefits - how about devices no one else can have unless they discover x amount of systems? We giving up on loot entirely and just focusing on credits only?

Hey, you discovered 100 new systems - here's a brand new Type AA warp drive no one else has, now go explore you crazy kid!

 

[Ayerc]

I'm going to have to disagree with this proposal.

Exploration doesn't require the same investment of time and credits that operating a large trader or combat ship does. Exploration currently carries the lowest risk of the professions, and is paid out accordingly.

I can see changes to payouts happening once Thargoids and other aliens risks are released, but until then, I think exploration fits where it is.

 

[Rafe Zetter]

As I stated in the earlier thread - I love it, and I think it adds much needed value to the player. I would also like to add that it would be a nice little extra to have the system be tagged in some way, "Discovered by CMDR xxxx" for both bragging rights and incentive.

I'm sure I read somewhere that this was a proposed idea - and if I just imagined it, then I heartily agree you should be allowed to suggest some names for the new system

 

[Fen Harel]

A full scan of a new system would be worth, say, 100kCr if it was "near" to populated space, and 1Mcr if it was 500 ly away. A round-trip of 10-20 brand new systems would now be worth the time and trouble. (Numbers to be adjusted so that that last statement is true).

I love exploring, so don't get me wrong. I'd be delighted if they paid that much... but to me, this seems a tad high. I just got back from a trip that took me 1000 ly out and scanned about 100 systems, and made just over 2 million. I'm content with exploring be less profitable than trading. Not everything has to be exactly balance with everything else. But.. I certainly won't turn down more credits if they up the price.

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the risk and time is FAR higher to go all the way out and back again.

In my personal experience its quite relaxing once you get more than 400 or 500 ly from colonized space, since NPCs don't spawn out there. The most tense time is coming back, because it sure seems like they are more aggressive when they know I'm coming home.

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As I stated in the earlier thread - I love it, and I think it adds much needed value to the player. I would also like to add that it would be a nice little extra to have the system be tagged in some way, "Discovered by CMDR xxxx" for both bragging rights and incentive.

Now *this* I hope they implement, at least for, say, Earth-like worlds.

 

[siberia]

I've made a few hundred thousand exploring, bounty hunting etc and several million trading got myself a mid range Asp, but it's not credits I play for! so I'm not really bothered

 

[Altissimus]

I voted No.

- I think the basic exploration payouts need to go up, maybe as high as 5-10x what we have now (unless they plan to add better payouts for level 2-3 scans in expansions later). But what you're proposing is massive overkill, imho. Trading should still be the most profitable venture (since it's also the least exciting), and I don't need exploration to pay anywhere near on the same scale - I'm not doing it for the money. Your suggestions would make me a billionaire after the first trip towards the core. In fact, by your numbers, I could turn back long before reaching the core and already afford a few Anacondas. No thanks. :/
- don't like the idea of payout determined by distance, current 20 ly limit is fine. Payout should be determined by the quantity and quality of what I scanned, not where I go to sell it.
- don't like the idea of limiting reward because someone else has been to this particular system. Many highest payout systems (such as the black hole at the center of the galaxy) are already known and being recorded/catalogued. It's not a fair system to new players who buy the game later on - they'll have to go further and further out to get to the unmapped systems as opposed to the early birds who'd have it easy.

I said 10m in 4 hours. That's less then I personally make trading in a T7. A t9 can make 20m in 4 hours.

That doesn't make you a billionaire after one trip, unless that trip lasted 400 hours.

 

[arfonfab]

I don't care about the money - I think it's fine. I just want to be sure that my exploration is fed back into the sim. The data I sell should go somewhere, not be silently discarded. I want to be Christopher Columbus, not one of the random thousands of cod fishermen who quite probably discovered American before him but didn't get the credit.

 

[Tinman]

Why would the payout go up just because the scanned system is further away?

Doesn't make sense if you think about it.

Let's say you have two equal systems, one close by and one way out in the void, both having the same amount of resources in them. Why would the one further away be worth more? It's going to be both harder to get there for whoever wants to start extraction, but more importantly, more time-consuming to get the resources transported back to civilization again. If anything the system close by would be more valuable in this case because it will be easier to get to and make use of.

I rather see more features/content when it comes to how you scan objects and extract information about them and further down the line exploration will of course get a lot more meaningful when we can actually land on and interact with planets on a smaller scale. Finding rare plants, animals/aliens, artifacts, ancient ruins (both human and "unknowns") will add a whole new dimension to exploration. Finding rare objects and phenomena in space is also another avenue to improve.