FA off and thruster control

[voodoochile73]

hi,

having got through the game using FA on ive decided i need to learn to fly FA off, for a better understanding of space flight and for for better combat (having been blown out the sky twice by non-npc pirates). I also want to return to solo play with some confidence in my skills should i get interdicted again, win or loose.

So i am determined to get the hang of this to broaden the game experience. I am ok with the movement pitch roll yaw and have configured the mouse controls for sensitivity and have relative x-y axis on. Bringing the ship to a controlled stop uing these is comfortable as a start.

My problem is with the 6 directional thrusters, i am finding it hard to learn how to bring the ship to a stop as it is hard to tell which way i am travelling at times, i know it is largely inexperience and i am using an asteroid belt to learn flying between icy rocks but the only dashboard gadget i have to help is the number above the thrust speed to give me some idea of what is happening.

Would really appreciate some tips on using thrusters for FA off and how to go about thinking around it. I understand the direction of travel and having to apply opposite and equal thrust to counter. Is it really just practice practice, some key tips and advice much appreciated, am using keyboard and mouse with roll binded to keys yaw to mouse.
I also have mouse sesitivity and relative rate at 20%, deadzoe at 10% and power curve at 0% the ship feels comfortable at these settings.

thx for any advice you can offer.

 

[Hellfire85]

If you can see it, the space "dust" is a good indicator in which direction you are currently drifting.

Or you can try and "feel" the movement.

I used a tool to remove the space dust thus I had no indication of vector or drift direction. it all comes down to situational awareness.

but starting in rings is already a really good way to learn. try to orbit an asteroid by yourself or search for FA off videos on YouTube to learn various exercises to improve your FA off skills.

 

[777Driver]

Hi,

It really is just down to practice, getting a feel for how the ship handles without FA interfering. For practice it is actually much easier doing it in a larger ship, maneuvering is more sluggish, you'll have more time to react and counter any thruster inputs.

As you already know, on a basic level it is simply down to countering any inputs you make, once it becomes natural you can start getting creative and use more advanced techniques. Plenty of tutorials out there.

Use the space dust for orientation, it is the closest thing we have to a flight path vector.

Assist on - Throttle position controls 'SPEED' 25% Throttle will cause the ship to accelerate and maintain a fixed speed based on thruster rating/mass etc.

Assist off - Throttle controls 'THRUST' 25% Throttle will cause the ship to accelerate at 25% Thrust to Max achievable speed.

 

[yolomcbobbinz]

I would practice whizzing around stations untill you get gud at the controls, then try it on a miner just fly around them with fa off untill you get the hang of it, thats how I did it. It took a few days, but thats how I fight in my conda and fdl. Just feels more fluid.

 

[Duc_Mallard]

It really is just practice. About 500 hrs. At the start pay attention to the dust, then after a while you'll just feel it. Remember that it isn't a win button.
And being good at non combat faoff doesn't necessarily mean you'll be good at combat faoff and vice versa. Permaboost is king in combat.
Use short sharp lateral thruster inputs.
Remember that your main thruster is your most powerful vector modifier. You can also join Newton's gambit discord. They're friendly guys. Or GCI if you want to improve specifically the pvp combat side of it.
YouTube is also your friend

 

[Trollymctrollerson]

I taught myself by using a fed dropship in a nav beacon. Start by orbiting the beacon, then practice making fast elliptical orbits. Once you get that down, start orbiting a random ship for moving target practice. Then when that's easy, practice engaging a wanted ship by orbiting it. Once you get that down, no NPC will ever kill you again except maybe a basilisk or stronger thargoid.

 

[Duc_Mallard]

In combat you'll want to keep your speed up at all times to keep your recticule evasive.
Avoid directly countering your vector with your main thruster as you turn. Don't flip. You want to maintain an arc with your lateral thrusters to keep your speed up as you pitch.
Any of what I say could be wrong though

 

[voodoochile73]

thank you all, some seriously sound advice in your replies.
Having spent the last 2 hours going around asteroids in the cheap and cheery viper it's fair to say i am starting to really get a feel for it. I only managed to smack into a rock 4 times and while im not quite able to position myself to rotate and thrust around an asteroid quite as i wanted i certaily wasn't far off.
Im finding i am getting used to combining the correct buttons to manouvre which is great, a case of thinking much more 3 dimensionly. I have to say its a lot more satifying to fly thn i thought it would be, much more responsive than with FA on, i think what put me off before was not realising you need relative mouse axis on - makes so much difference!.

Docking is an issue, making fine adjustements is tricky still but i will practice but i am looking forward to trying it out in combat and getting used to the new founded vehicle control and mastering it. Ok speed up at all times in combat and perma boost, that'll be interesting, i fly a Krait so think i'll enjoy that, ye i think my problem with combat before is that i was always too predictable but i havent done a huge amount of combat yet. Im fine with vehicle control and awareness in life or game so really looking forward to nailing this one

thanks all for the advice and the moral boost am feeling a lot more confident, great stuff ! Gonna check out some more vids.

 

[Camisade]

My problem is with the 6 directional thrusters, i am finding it hard to learn how to bring the ship to a stop as it is hard to tell which way i am travelling at times, i know it is largely inexperience and i am using an asteroid belt to learn flying between icy rocks but the only dashboard gadget i have to help is the number above the thrust speed to give me some idea of what is happening.

I happened across this series of videos by Moxen Wolf on Youtube the other day -- there are five progressive videos teaching FA Off control, with specific exercises to work on. Looked like it might be a fairly strong, structured way to develop some of the skills you're looking for.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6zIXu52RnA&t=0s&index=6&list=LLjzPNc5E54NrOV3g-t7U7cQ

Hope it helps. (I need this kind of work, too -- I usually only go FA Off for short periods (like during boosting in combat)).

 

[voodoochile73]

I happened across this series of videos by Moxen Wolf on Youtube the other day -- there are five progressive videos teaching FA Off control, with specific exercises to work on. Looked like it might be a fairly strong, structured way to develop some of the skills you're looking for.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6zIXu52RnA&t=0s&index=6&list=LLjzPNc5E54NrOV3g-t7U7cQ

Hope it helps. (I need this kind of work, too -- I usually only go FA Off for short periods (like during boosting in combat)).

thank you for the link, they look like great tutorials.

 

[kofeyh]

hi,

having got through the game using FA on ive decided i need to learn to fly FA off, for a better understanding of space flight and for for better combat (having been blown out the sky twice by non-npc pirates).

Welcome to the world of FA-Off. It's great; the freedom you will discover is amazing and it's impossible to go back. But the first few things are try and limit how much thrust you use, as you do not have to override FA; the less you put in, the less you have to correct.

Also, you will massively overcorrect just all the time initially. FA-On instills really bad habits, so you will stagger around like an ageing drunk at a def leppard concert for a while. It'll pass.

KB+M as I understand it is easier than HOTAS due to the slightly finer control. I fly with HOTAS with FA-Off and it does take a while to adjust. Stick it out and you'll be fine!

Lastly, I recommend something like a Viper Mk IV or DBS (or something else fairly small with a little heft to it) with a decent size distro and flying around a station. They are cheap so the odd collision won't hurt the bank. Having a fixed point in space makes it easier to recognise your vector (over time muscle memory and observing space dust will gel to become an unconscious action).

Once you get used to that, something boosty like FAS/ Chieftain or FDL is great for gaining more confidence with high-speed maneuvering and as your confidence grows.

Edit: I see you have been playing chicken with asteroids and that works too. Really anything that gives you a fixed reference point helps; after a while chasing moving reference points (aka, next meal ticket) will become easier.

Hi,

It really is just down to practice, getting a feel for how the ship handles without FA interfering. For practice it is actually much easier doing it in a larger ship, maneuvering is more sluggish, you'll have more time to react and counter any thruster inputs.

Yep. More expensive to write off though. Thruster authority doesn't scale from infinite down; it's a set amount, regardless. This will do one's head in initially as why do thrusters not work? Oh; they are pants now. Got it. And then you take Cutter for a spin FA-Off and learn that thrusters are more a suggestion (one suggests the ship stops, it takes that under advisement and decides not to) than an actual ability. Good fun tho.

 

[Spacecat]

The confusion is because FD played fast and loose with the thrust dynamics in FA off. When you turn around in FA off, even without touching the throttle, it leaves you travelling in reverse as if you were still facing forward. Once you realize this silliness, you can compensate for it.

 

[kofeyh]

The confusion is because FD played fast and loose with the thrust dynamics in FA off. When you turn around in FA off, even without touching the throttle, it leaves you travelling in reverse as if you were still facing forward. Once you realize this silliness, you can compensate for it.

Yes, physics is a bit of a chore, really, and quite quite silly, but one can still adapt. o7

(giggle).

 

[Madrax573]

Welcome to the feeling of true freedom!

Watch Moxen Wolf's vid then come join us on our discord that is all about learning and living the Fa-off lifestyle

 

[TheMegaTurnip]

Buy a HOTAS and experence real control, harder to adjust too, but long term, it is THE way to FA off.

 

[Quantis Trap]

I happened across this series of videos by Moxen Wolf on Youtube the other day -- there are five progressive videos teaching FA Off control, with specific exercises to work on. Looked like it might be a fairly strong, structured way to develop some of the skills you're looking for.

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6zIXu52RnA&t=0s&index=6&list=LLjzPNc5E54NrOV3g-t7U7cQ

Hope it helps. (I need this kind of work, too -- I usually only go FA Off for short periods (like during boosting in combat)).

I was about to recommend these same videos which I've used, but will just add my recommendation of them and +rep instead.

I still can't call myself expert at FA-Off because I've still resisting using it all the time. I am way past the flying like a drunk state though. I fly with HOTAS (/ Dual Stick) also because "my immersion"!

Madrax and the other NG dudes are cool guys too so join their group!

 

[DeletedUser191218]

hi,

having got through the game using FA on ive decided i need to learn to fly FA off, for a better understanding of space flight and for for better combat (having been blown out the sky twice by non-npc pirates). I also want to return to solo play with some confidence in my skills should i get interdicted again, win or loose.

So i am determined to get the hang of this to broaden the game experience. I am ok with the movement pitch roll yaw and have configured the mouse controls for sensitivity and have relative x-y axis on. Bringing the ship to a controlled stop uing these is comfortable as a start.

My problem is with the 6 directional thrusters, i am finding it hard to learn how to bring the ship to a stop as it is hard to tell which way i am travelling at times, i know it is largely inexperience and i am using an asteroid belt to learn flying between icy rocks but the only dashboard gadget i have to help is the number above the thrust speed to give me some idea of what is happening.

Would really appreciate some tips on using thrusters for FA off and how to go about thinking around it. I understand the direction of travel and having to apply opposite and equal thrust to counter. Is it really just practice practice, some key tips and advice much appreciated, am using keyboard and mouse with roll binded to keys yaw to mouse.
I also have mouse sesitivity and relative rate at 20%, deadzoe at 10% and power curve at 0% the ship feels comfortable at these settings.

thx for any advice you can offer.

I personally only fa-off in combat. I'm too lazy to use it any other time. You should still find the 'blue' point as often as you can with thrusters. Thruster control is probably the hardest part of fa-off. If/when you flip round you'll go in reverse because there's no equal opposing force to prevent that - it can take frustratingly long for thrusters to bring you back to forward momentum, which is why you want to boost in that scenario. I'm sure you already know this but don't think of fa-off as faster turning. It's a completely different way of moving when you don't have the opposing forces. It's also a bit daft as the effect of nearby gravity objects doesn't do anything....but that's for another discussion.

 

[Lestat]

LOL, I was looking for those videos. I do need to stop with FA off hold button mode and switch to toggle mode. I going to start using those videos to learn toggle mode.

 

[kofeyh]

It's also a bit daft as the effect of nearby gravity objects doesn't do anything....but that's for another discussion.

Just a minor correction, but actually yes it does in a few instances. Stations have minor gravity and this will cause a 'pull' on a ship and cause it to 'fall' towards the pads and so forth in a station. And the gravity of a planet absolutely is represented when in it's SOA. Be that within the instance in low orbit over a planet (I believe planet diving is still a thing) and absolutely near a planet surface. Also, how many FA-Off pilots have had fun chasing canisters falling towards a planet, then? *raises hand*

2g+ with Cutter and you absolutely know there is gravity on a planet with FA-Off; it falls like a brick. I've scrapped the belly of the beast a couple times miss-judging approach speed.

Frontier's FA-Off is a little pants in some respects, but the bits that matter? Absolutely represented. It's a game and so some compromises (like the speed limit) will always exist. I still think we need to get Ed Lewis into FA-Off. He might need to swap from controller (that's hard work for FA-Off) but I reckon it'd be fun to watch.

 

[Madrax573]

LOL, I was looking for those videos. I do need to stop with FA off hold button mode and switch to toggle mode. I going to start using those videos to learn toggle mode.

Feel free to pop into the Discord as well mate to chat with the NG FA-off nutters if you want to. We don't bite to much