FA Off: What am I doing wrong?

DukeIronHand

D
Working with FA Off (toggled) to improve my turn rate in combat.
Toggle FA Off and pull back on stick and it seems to work just fine except, after a nice turn, I release the toggle (back to FA On) and my speed drops to zero and I even go into reverse for a few seconds based on seeing my own engine trail.
What am I doing wrong here?
 

YinYin

YinYin
It does not improve your turn rate, ever.

It can only extend your boosted turn rate.

What you're doing wrong is, you disable flight assist too early. Thus you keep drifting at the trajectory you had the moment you disabled it.

Once you've made that 180 you are obviously going backwards.
 

DukeIronHand

D
YinYin said:
It does not improve your turn rate, ever.

It can only extend your boosted turn rate.

What you're doing wrong is, you disable flight assist too early. Thus you keep drifting at the trajectory you had the moment you disabled it.

Once you've made that 180 you are obviously going backwards.
Click to expand...

Ah. Most of your explanation makes sense - or at least it makes me see what is happening.
Couple of quick checks (online now) and think I am holding Off too long - until I face 180.
Think I am clear on everything but "...you disable flight assist too early."
 
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777Driver

777Driver
DukeIronHand said:
Working with FA Off (toggled) to improve my turn rate in combat.
Toggle FA Off and pull back on stick and it seems to work just fine except, after a nice turn, I release the toggle (back to FA On) and my speed drops to zero and I even go into reverse for a few seconds based on seeing my own engine trail.
What am I doing wrong here?
Click to expand...

FA-ON is a SPEED mode - Throttle position dictates the 'Speed' the ship will attempt to maintain

FA-OFF is a THRUST Mode - Throttle position dictates the amount of 'Thrust' the engines generate.

There will always be some residual drag when flight assist attempts to stabilise the ship from FA-OFF, so going into reverse after a 180 is expected in some cases. However, your throttle position will always be the primary factor in what speed the ship maintains once you re-engage flight assist.
 
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YinYin

YinYin
Well, if you want it to do anything for you, you first have to decide what else you want to achieve with your fast turn.

If you want to gain some distance to your target, you are already doing great. If you want to stay close, you'll have to disable later.

So let's say you are going at 50% throttle, boost, and start turning at a boosted rate.
If you keep flight assist on, your turn rate will go back down as the boost ends. Depending on where you wanted to turn, that may be enough.
If you need to turn further and want to retain the high turn rate, you need to disable flight assist just before the boost wears off.
Then enable it again as soon as you have your new heading.

edit: the one other thing that flight assist off does is enabling higher reverse speed
 
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Sentience

Sentience
Learn 100% FA Off. I went through some vids this week, and after 5 hours of practicing, turning FA back on felt like putting a brace around my ship's neck.
 

YinYin

YinYin
It can be a very useful brace. I dare say flight assist is the fastest way to stop your ship (boost+gear/scoop).
 

Madrax573

Madrax573
Come to the dark side Duke!


But the issues is that the computer does not remember your throttle setting when you switch FA-off.
So when you switch it back on it looks at your vector speed and adjusts the throttle to match that speed for the direction you are facing.

e.g.
You boost and switch fa-off to do a 180deg flip. You are facing the right direction but are now flying backward. when you toggle fa-on it will set the throttle to whatever negative it is and even out your flight thrust to match your facing.
Now if you boost, fa-off, flip and boost again to start moving in the direction you are facing, then switch fa-on again it will still set your throttle to match your speed but in this case you are travelling forward.

Clear as mud? I might not have explained it correctly.....
 

DukeIronHand

D
Very clear and thanks.
Apparently I was not aware of some of the "finer details" of proper maneuvering.
More practice in indicated!
 
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jasonbarron

jasonbarron
Sentience said:
Learn 100% FA Off. I went through some vids this week, and after 5 hours of practicing, turning FA back on felt like putting a brace around my ship's neck.
Click to expand...

DukeIronHand said:
Yikes. 100% FA Off?
Lemme get a little "combat cocky" first. Sounds like a retirement project.
:)
Click to expand...

Yeah, FA Off at first feels really counter-intuitive, but if you just bite the bullet and go 100% Off (and be disciplined!), after a number of hours it will feel awkward as heck to go back to FA On. Duke, it's just practice.
 

[VR] Enexemander

[VR] Enexemander
Lolz. Duke what you're doing wrong is never getting on voice comms with me. I've been a 100% FA: OFF pilot for a long time. Feel free to hop on and ask me questions anytime. I'm also up for training sessions if you can get that dodgey internet connection to work out for you.
 

DukeIronHand

D
Enexemander said:
Lolz. Duke what you're doing wrong is never getting on voice comms with me. I've been a 100% FA: OFF pilot for a long time. Feel free to hop on and ask me questions anytime. I'm also up for training sessions if you can get that dodgey internet connection to work out for you.
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Dodgy indeed!
Well if you don't mind the stutters or rubber-banding I just may take you up on that.
Or perhaps the crappy connection is something only I see on my end?
In any case perhaps my internet hamsters will be feeling good that day.
 

VR andysonofbob

VR andysonofbob
Kudos for giving it a go!

Here are some awesome videos from the equally awesome CMDR HOBBS!
I particularly like them because that's me showing off at the end of the 2nd one. ;)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U6zIXu52RnA&list=PLIQVVKXGd78AiYjhGUNZL9dFm23hYgc8R


Alternatively.

1st - accept the following: YOU WILL NEVER EVER PERFECTLY STILL YOUR SHIP
2nd - accept FA Off WILL BECOME SECOND NATURE and you WILL stop thinking about it suprisingly quickly.

SETUP
  1. Make sure you map all the lateral thrusters (ud, lr, fb). Reference - T.Flight HOTAS X: Throttle = FB; two of the thottle thumb buttons = UD; throttle rocker = LR (Left hand is for laterals and right hand is for roll, yaw, pitch)
  2. Get Sidewinder
  3. Find any 0.1 to 0.3g planet
  4. With FA ON, descend to 200-500m height and fly level at bluezone


Task 1a:
  1. Let go of right stick
  2. FA Off and zero throttle. You will maintain speed but slowly descend.
  3. As you begin to descend - short SHORT bursts of vertical thrust to maintain height. Let gravity pull you down but bounce up with up thrust.

Task1b:
  1. Allow the craft to descend to ~50m
  2. As above


Task2a Strafe
  1. As above but add bursts of L or R thruster to begin sideways movement
  2. Opposite lateral to return to near centre and forward
  3. Maintain blue zone - add bursts of throttle (+/-) to maintain BZ.

Task 2b low speed strafing
  1. Reduce speed to near stop by a deep but smallish impact crater
  2. Use combinations of all three lateral thrusters to descend ascend and side to side etc to 'paint' the crater with your ship's shadow.


Task3a Pitch
  1. Back to 500m
  2. Pull back on the stick to pitch up but let go of the stick after a second.
  3. After flipping a couple of times - pitch down for a second until the pitching is seriously reduced
  4. If you have begun to roll add tiny opposite inputs to minimise roll - YOU WILL NEVER SETTLE THE SHIP
  5. Maintain height

Task3b Roll
  • As above

Task3c Yaw
  • As above


Task 4
  • Land on planet


Task 5
  • Land on planet base - takes a great deal of patience. Remember: let gravity pull you down (or one tends to loose control), gentle boost to gain height

I might make a quick video to demo this once I have returned for the shopping grind!
 
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DukeIronHand

D
Thanks for the "training regimen."
Out of curiousity why a Sidewinder instead of the ship you normally fly?
Or is the Sidewinder good for a basic demo and the principles are the same for all ships? Even the big ones?
 

Deleted member 110222

D
YinYin said:
It does not improve your turn rate, ever.

It can only extend your boosted turn rate.

What you're doing wrong is, you disable flight assist too early. Thus you keep drifting at the trajectory you had the moment you disabled it.

Once you've made that 180 you are obviously going backwards.
Click to expand...

Question from a n00b here. At what point is the correct time to turn off FA?
 

YinYin

YinYin
Un1k0rn said:
Question from a n00b here. At what point is the correct time to turn off FA?
Click to expand...

As mentioned before, that depends on what you want from it.

For some, as advocated in here, it's correct to have it off at all times.
(in which case one may reverse the question, at what point is it the correct time to turn it back on?)

If you want to extend your boosted turn rate, but not drift outwards too much - the correct time is just before the boost wears off.
This is a little different for every ship, so you'll have to experiment. But it's obvious enough.

If you want to move in reverse or retain your direction while turning, you best turn it off right away.
 
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