Faction imbalance?

[Kramster]

[Edit] Should have made the title 'Faction SHIP imbalance' more accurate
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OK a lot of what I am going to say is based on my perceptions, feelings, experiences, my understanding of the ED faction system and it's ships.
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I chose Federation way back in beta but have since started questioning this decision, why? The apparent inbalance in the two faction ships, namely the Federal Dropship and the Imperial Clipper. The Clipper is a lot cheaper, has better cargo, higher initial jump range, better maneuverability, is faster, and has, in my opinion, a better compartment layout. The dropship is slightly better armoured and gunned but overall for the the extra cost why bother?
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In other games it has seemed that more players lean towards the 'bad guy' side or persona and given that, in my mind at least and fuelled by Star Trek and Wars, the empire is perceived as the bad guy. I would therefore expect more players to play empire in ED without any further encouragement, though I don't think this is quite so polarized in ED as the ethical lines are a little blurred. I know that we can currently play both sides of the fence but, once players choose a side and have done the rep 'grind', there is little incentive to change sides.
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Faction, while not being a major issue on an individual level, is potentially a big factor in the background simulation. With more players carrying out missions to gain Imperial rep systems and indeed the galaxy will possibly become more empire orientated. If the background simulation matters then this imbalance seems wrong and could possible lead to a further imbalance in the galaxy map later down the line? If faction isn't important than why bother having the background sim at all or at least the faction part and why would should we be invested in the politics if it doesn't effect us in a meaningful way?
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Why so little love for the Dropship FD? The price alone kills it besides it's apparent spec imbalance. I know other ships will be added but at the moment these two ships seem to be each others counterpart.
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Maybe be I am missing something or have misunderstood but it seems to me that FD are working for the Empire and anyone leaning towards the opposition is doomed

 

[talshiarr]

Is the Empire considered the "bad guy" for any specific reason? I honestly am not familiar with all the lore since 1984 because this is really the first Elite game I've played. Are they the bad guy because of slaves? Because of being monarchic? Because of something else? Were/are they more warmongering in general? Other than GalNet treating them like a dysfunctional reality TV show, it's hard for me to judge.

I'll admit I chose it simply because the Imperial clipper is, bar none, the most fascinating looking ship in the game for me. It's strikingly different than anything else we can fly except the essentially useless Orca.

 

[Kramster]

Is the Empire considered the "bad guy" for any specific reason? I honestly am not familiar with all the lore since 1984 because this is really the first Elite game I've played. Are they the bad guy because of slaves? Because of being monarchic? Because of something else? Were/are they more warmongering in general? Other than GalNet treating them like a dysfunctional reality TV show, it's hard for me to judge.

I'll admit I chose it simply because the Imperial clipper is, bar none, the most fascinating looking ship in the game for me. It's strikingly different than anything else we can fly except the essentially useless Orca.

I myself am not sure who is supposed to be good or bad, I just perceive the empire being the bad guy due to outside influences. The main point though is there seems to be a real imbalance in the faction ships

 

[ZeeWolf]

The Alliance has no special ship.

The factions themselves aren't officially at war with each other (yet) but I doubt it would be decided by who had the best specific ship at this early stage. There is no reason you can't fly an imperial clipper for the Federation anyway is there?

More ships are coming. Maybe the drop ship will reveal its full potential later on?

 

[starjump]

Are any of the upcoming ships faction based? Might be ships in that that is comparable. Not sure.

 

[Andromalius]

There is little sense for traders to go for fed rep at the moment. The clipper, that said, is really interesting only to them design-wise. Some other people just want one for looks and feelings, but that's not quantizable.
At some point people will always find ship X is better for task Y and go for it. Balance can never really be perfect, otherwise all we get is the tier ships syndrome, where all the ship lines endup like the lakons. Combat ship 1,2,3,4 etc.
That said, I'm currently not playing any longer, game is far too unfinished and balance issues are part of this. When I come back there will be more ships and better balanced stuff. That might be a long time in the future, though, if the progress in beta is anything like how the game will progress in the future.

 

[Mahtamori]

In my own experience, it's the good guys that gets the player base as long as they are badasses (WH40K Space Marines get the players, while Chaos and Imperial Guard do not). The Empire isn't any more evil than the Federation is, with Alliance most likely being the defacto "good guys". In a game of The Good, The Bad and The Ugly, the Empire and the Federation contest the spot of "The Ugly".

The perceived imbalance between the ships do not really matter. Neither ship is better than a Python, so both will have an upgrade and there isn't any storyline arch forcing you to play either ship. What does matter is that the Federation Dropship seems to be of the same aesthetic as the Lakon-series ships, meaning there isn't much in the way of appealing aesthetics promoting Federation alignment (and the complete lack of Alliance ships doesn't help THAT faction). Personally, I chose to focus mainly on Empire simply because I like the aesthetics.

Now, I don't know how the Dropship's turret mounts are positioned, but the Clipper is suffering from a severe case of the Cobra syndrome - and since the Viper is considered better than the Cobra due to turret placement, that's something to consider as well.

 

[Elan]

With only 50% of the planned ships being available to us, I think it a little premature to be stating imbalance in the factions.

I agree that the Dropship sucks and the clipper rocks!

 

[Kramster]

The alliance doesn't seem to be a working faction at the moment but I am sure it will be and will get it's own ship.
As far as flying the clipper for the Fdeeration then yes I can do that but to do that I need to travel xxx light years, do missions for a faction I didn't want to be aligned with and then have to go back and do the federation stuff as well.
I think we may see more faction ships before too long, I suspect the five extra ships may be faction based, hence the getting to 'choose' one statement by FD. I hope for faction fighters and maybe even base ships that can carry our smaller ships as fighters?
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I am not claiming there is a faction imbalance, just that there is the potential for one given the current ship situation
The title of the topic is probably misleading..
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"faction ship imbalance' would have been a more accurate title

 

[StayFrosty]

The Alliance has no special ship.

The Alliance is essentially an alliance of independant states. It wouldn't make much sense that they would have dedicated ships. In essence, any non-Imperial non-Federal ship is an Alliance ship.

 

[Kramster]

The Alliance is essentially an alliance of independant states. It wouldn't make much sense that they would have dedicated ships. In essence, any non-Imperial non-Federal ship is an Alliance ship.

Yeah I see them more like the rebel alliance in Star Wars, just fly whatever you have access to

 

[fergal]

The only explanation for the dropships poor value on paper is it has something to do with passengers (troops) like the orca.

Until passengers are implemented these two ships are basically useless and we only have 13 ships out of 30 free ones to use at the moment.

Hopefully there will be some news as to when this feature will be in the game.

 

[Rearden]

Isn't one of the main advantages of the Federal Dropship that you can land them at outposts while the Clipper can't ?

 

[crushdepth]

Solution: Suck up to the Empire for a bit (you don't have to play one side), buy a clipper then go back and play for the bad guys (that would be the feds).

 

[Allant Doran]

I would quite like it if, in a 'passenger' slot, you could also buy specialists who helped with non-piloting tasks. Two examples of this are as follows;

Imagine in a year or so, we have both passengers AND Planetary Landing. Maybe it would be cool to be able to purchase a 'Science Team' in a Passenger slot, which would give you a better payout during Planetary Landing Exploration.

Or, perhaps once they introduce boarding parties, you could hire a Mercenary team to sit aboard your ship in a passenger slot. This would mean that any invading Ai or player would have a whole host of NPC gunmen to tackle.

- The reason these are the two examples I give are because these would be very interesting takes on Exploration and Combat that the Dropship would actually be DESIRABLE for. Sure, it wouldn't be as quick or as cargo-happy as the Clipper, but it could become a Heavily Armed/Armoured Exploration and Boarding vessel.

Perhaps I can one day take down a clipper's shields, board it with my marines and outright steal his cargo that way

 

[Hamerstein]

Isn't one of the main advantages of the Federal Dropship that you can land them at outposts while the Clipper can't ?

That's the big one as far as I'm concerned.

I do think the Clipper has greater versatility in role, because it handles far better than the Dropship. But the Dropship can land anywhere and that's a massive boost to it's trading capability (and future passenger carrier role).

 

[CATPAIN KIRK]

There was a very similar thread here. I've never flown a Dropship, but from what I've read and watched it should be buffed, epecially considering the higher price tag. I didn't like the Clipper, but at least it looks sleek - unlike the dropship, which definitely is a contender for one of the most ridiculous looking ships in the game.

On a related note, I originally felt more inclined towards the empire mainly because I mostly side with Empires in Sci-Fi movies as suggested in the OP - The Klingon and Romulan Empires are more appealing to me than the Federation, the SW Empire is cooler than the Republic/Rebels, and as a matter of fact I sided with Sauron from the first moment I've read LOTR over 30 years back. I wouldn't call any of them inherently evil, though - it's all a matter of perspective - or to put it differently:

"There is no such thing as moral phenomena, but only a moral interpretation of phenomena." .

 

[Kramster]

That's the big one as far as I'm concerned.

I do think the Clipper has greater versatility in role, because it handles far better than the Dropship. But the Dropship can land anywhere and that's a massive boost to it's trading capability (and future passenger carrier role).

I agree that their roles are slightly different but the thing that really seems out of whack is the price difference, I just don't see why there is such an obvious bias in favour of the Imperial ship especially given that overall, the clipper is the better ship for most roles.

 

[satrycus]

The Alliance is essentially an alliance of independant states. It wouldn't make much sense that they would have dedicated ships. In essence, any non-Imperial non-Federal ship is an Alliance ship.

What often gets overlooked in threads of this nature is that the founders of the Alliance owned an advanced space flight company, AAAI, based out of New Rossyth. They were renowned for their ship design, so it would make sense that at least one of their ships would find its way into the navies of Alliance members.

 

[StayFrosty]

I would quite like it if, in a 'passenger' slot, you could also buy specialists who helped with non-piloting tasks. Two examples of this are as follows;

Imagine in a year or so, we have both passengers AND Planetary Landing. Maybe it would be cool to be able to purchase a 'Science Team' in a Passenger slot, which would give you a better payout during Planetary Landing Exploration.

Or, perhaps once they introduce boarding parties, you could hire a Mercenary team to sit aboard your ship in a passenger slot. This would mean that any invading Ai or player would have a whole host of NPC gunmen to tackle.

- The reason these are the two examples I give are because these would be very interesting takes on Exploration and Combat that the Dropship would actually be DESIRABLE for. Sure, it wouldn't be as quick or as cargo-happy as the Clipper, but it could become a Heavily Armed/Armoured Exploration and Boarding vessel.

Perhaps I can one day take down a clipper's shields, board it with my marines and outright steal his cargo that way

It's pretty much what's planned. Actually, crew and passengers were originally planned for release.