60,000 join far-right march on Poland's Independence Day
This makes me really sad. Once again it's mostly men in their twenties.
This makes me really sad. Once again it's mostly men in their twenties.
General / Off-Topic Far right marching in Poland
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I think extremism as a whole is generally "a thing" for people between 20 and 30. It's kind of trendy, right now. 
I reside in Czech republic, at the moment. There aren't any marches or anything, but the general mood of the society definitely tends to far right, too, among the younger generation.
It all seems to be connected with the supposed "invasion" from the Middle East.
I agree it's sad to watch. When I was young, the way to rebel was to visit a punk concert and get hammered.
I reside in Czech republic, at the moment. There aren't any marches or anything, but the general mood of the society definitely tends to far right, too, among the younger generation.
It all seems to be connected with the supposed "invasion" from the Middle East.
I agree it's sad to watch. When I was young, the way to rebel was to visit a punk concert and get hammered.
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That is so massively stupid
Are the schools over there quite terrible, or why do so many people seem to have learned nothing from recent history? A few decades from being Soviet satellites, and they are eating nationalist propaganda like it's candy.That is so massively stupid
"Those who don't learn from history are doomed to repeat it"
That seems to be the leitmotif of humanity from the dawn of ages.
Because let's face it, although we live in the time of technological miracles and general advancement, the majority of people remains really really stupid.
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"Those who do learn from history are doomed to watch others repeat it"
Dude, that is even more depressing...
(this will be longish!)
I did read about that march, but after the thread about the rise of the right was closed, i did not see where to post stuff about it, so thanks for this new thread Adept
One of the aspects of Nationalism that is always hard to stop, is that it is an 'easy' philosophy to spread, and it kind of gets to the crux of the issue why our evolution as human beings seems to have stalled. We have all this amazing science and technology around us, much of it could easily be leveraged to push us all to the next level on our evolutionary path; getting rid of poverty, providing clean and cheap (often free) energy etc.
But there is an 'agenda' at play in the world around us, one fuelled by control of 'old world' technologies (Oil, Coal, Mineral wealth etc) that also funds political influence and top level decision making. It has control of vast media empires and all this is, and has been for a good 20 years now, pushing a Nationalist mindset. It is the principle reason behind the rise of the right we are all witnessing, from Trump/Marie Le Penn to Brexit and these kind of marches.
As the dream of Neoliberalism faded, when people actually woke up to the fact of the wealth simply concentrating with a smaller group of people while the rest of us got progressively more poor, each one of us has had to face harder decisions to just get by in our lives (be it less holidays or having to buy less stuff that made us happy or at the other end of the scale simply having a harder time putting food on the table (in the uk food-bank usage is at an all time high)).
This can easily be turned into anger, and Nationalism needs an angry base to ride on. It just so happened that while the powers that be (the USA) decided to war in the oil-rich regions of the world, the displacement of the populations there was always going to hit Europe the hardest (it is the nearest 'safe' place), and for the USA this was a good thing, as it knew it could carry on undermining the 'left' aspects in the eurozone (i include the uk in this).
So the media outlets spread the lies (mostly) about this 'Islamic' influx, job stealing to etc. Obviously the terror attacks fed into all that (and were always going to happen, just as fallout from the West's wars in the middle east) and again the story could be shifted to increase the growing anger amongst the already angry populace.
'Foreigners' are to blame for all that ails us etc. It is a simple story for a simple mindset, one that then does not have to face the actual complexity of the real situation. You just turn it into a fantasy enemy that people can get behind resisting and being angry about. And the simplicity in the Nationalist philosophy is what makes it so dangerous, as has been proven time and again in modern history.
The only way to fight it is in education, and as we have seen across all our western societies where Nationalism has been resurfacing, state level education has been slipping, and much like with our health services is one of the corners of a civilised society that has been under attack.
So how to stop this trend. Simple. You just have to stop voting for the right, stop paying for it's media and tell the story far and wide on what is actually going on. That is if you want to live in a civilised society where we all enjoy a better standard of living (rather than one where it will only be the privileged few).
This is speaking as someone that has voted for the right in the past (to get Blair's power out of the Labour Party), but will not again for the foreseeable future.
And in specific reference to the 'Islamic' aspect of the current problem i highly recommend the 'Power of Nightmare' series by Adam Curtis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares
It's a very complete analysis of how we got here, and an easy-to-get-into launch point for further study
I did read about that march, but after the thread about the rise of the right was closed, i did not see where to post stuff about it, so thanks for this new thread Adept
One of the aspects of Nationalism that is always hard to stop, is that it is an 'easy' philosophy to spread, and it kind of gets to the crux of the issue why our evolution as human beings seems to have stalled. We have all this amazing science and technology around us, much of it could easily be leveraged to push us all to the next level on our evolutionary path; getting rid of poverty, providing clean and cheap (often free) energy etc.
But there is an 'agenda' at play in the world around us, one fuelled by control of 'old world' technologies (Oil, Coal, Mineral wealth etc) that also funds political influence and top level decision making. It has control of vast media empires and all this is, and has been for a good 20 years now, pushing a Nationalist mindset. It is the principle reason behind the rise of the right we are all witnessing, from Trump/Marie Le Penn to Brexit and these kind of marches.
As the dream of Neoliberalism faded, when people actually woke up to the fact of the wealth simply concentrating with a smaller group of people while the rest of us got progressively more poor, each one of us has had to face harder decisions to just get by in our lives (be it less holidays or having to buy less stuff that made us happy or at the other end of the scale simply having a harder time putting food on the table (in the uk food-bank usage is at an all time high)).
This can easily be turned into anger, and Nationalism needs an angry base to ride on. It just so happened that while the powers that be (the USA) decided to war in the oil-rich regions of the world, the displacement of the populations there was always going to hit Europe the hardest (it is the nearest 'safe' place), and for the USA this was a good thing, as it knew it could carry on undermining the 'left' aspects in the eurozone (i include the uk in this).
So the media outlets spread the lies (mostly) about this 'Islamic' influx, job stealing to etc. Obviously the terror attacks fed into all that (and were always going to happen, just as fallout from the West's wars in the middle east) and again the story could be shifted to increase the growing anger amongst the already angry populace.
'Foreigners' are to blame for all that ails us etc. It is a simple story for a simple mindset, one that then does not have to face the actual complexity of the real situation. You just turn it into a fantasy enemy that people can get behind resisting and being angry about. And the simplicity in the Nationalist philosophy is what makes it so dangerous, as has been proven time and again in modern history.
The only way to fight it is in education, and as we have seen across all our western societies where Nationalism has been resurfacing, state level education has been slipping, and much like with our health services is one of the corners of a civilised society that has been under attack.
So how to stop this trend. Simple. You just have to stop voting for the right, stop paying for it's media and tell the story far and wide on what is actually going on. That is if you want to live in a civilised society where we all enjoy a better standard of living (rather than one where it will only be the privileged few).
This is speaking as someone that has voted for the right in the past (to get Blair's power out of the Labour Party), but will not again for the foreseeable future.
And in specific reference to the 'Islamic' aspect of the current problem i highly recommend the 'Power of Nightmare' series by Adam Curtis:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Power_of_Nightmares
It's a very complete analysis of how we got here, and an easy-to-get-into launch point for further study
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Those people with the same far right ideology on their signs are marching every year on our independence day from as far as I can remember. The only difference is that now the police is protecting them rather the people who are against this ideology. This year any contr- manifestation was in fact called illegal and arrested with out hesitation.
To my shame it's been the same in Finland. Since the True Finns became the 3rd peg of the governing coalition, the far right have had a lot of police protection while counter protestors are labeled anarchists and dealt with quite harshly by the police.
The problem is made worse by the fact that people who end up training as police officers tend to be of an authoritarian / right wing mindset, and a lot of them harbor far right sympathies.
This ugly tribalism is hardwired in primate brains.
Sometimes I think that we deserve the mass extinction that we are causing, even if the other species do not.
There are no National Socialist Alligators or Spiders.
Sometimes I think that we deserve the mass extinction that we are causing, even if the other species do not.
There are no National Socialist Alligators or Spiders.
Don't worry. We will die out, eventually. Western civilization has problems with birth rate for decades. The sole fact that we consider babies of other animals more cute than our own is kinda telling.
Some insightful remarks from Paul Mason on the march and wider rise of Nationalism:
'This weekend’s march in Poland proves the far right isn’t going away without a fight':
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...the-far-right-isnt-going-away-without-a-fight
'This weekend’s march in Poland proves the far right isn’t going away without a fight':
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...the-far-right-isnt-going-away-without-a-fight
the EU does not seem to realize what is happening in the European countries. The EU does nothing to improve the people's lives
Don't worry. We will die out, eventually. Western civilization has problems with birth rate for decades. The sole fact that we consider babies of other animals more cute than our own is kinda telling.
With 8 billion of us on the planet, low birth rates are sanity rather than a problem. Luckily they are falling everywhere.
Isn't the WHOLE point of the Union to stop the wars that originated from this stupid nationalism?
They are? It's my impression that some third world countries populations are spiraling out of control. That's one of the big reasons for the migration wave coming over the Mediterranean from Africa.
Africa's population is expected to increase by over 1 billion by 2050!:
verminstar
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Money makes the world go round...thats the one language in europe that everyone understands. The whole point was to slowly erase the borders over the years which is half the issue...the irony being they provoked it in the first place with their own policies and agendas.
The other half of the issue is the displacement of a huge chunk of population trying to flee multple wars with europe being the closest safe area where there is no war. The blame fer that mess doesnt lie at the feet of the EU, but elsewhere in the world but as ever, we deal with their mess after they leave.
Fuelled by a barely controlled worldwide social media and more and more unhappy fed up people who see everyone else doing better than they are and...well, we do indeed live in interesting times do we not?
On a personal note, my little corner of the world have proven themselves to have the dumbest politicians in recorded history. After ending the talks on power sharing with no hope of an agreement after ten months of talks and almost zero progress, the UK government has had to make the budget on their behalf to actually run the country. We are now one step closer to direct rule from London, which incidentally, is the very thing that many hardliners have wanted in this country fer years.
Republicans have simply ruled out any possibility of that and absolutely will not accept it. Thats what happens when one side refuses to compromise...so does the other side and round and round we go where will the merry go round take us to next I wonder. And the good friday agreement? Gone...into the history books with that one.
Know what we all need? A good war, maybe a couple nukes just to take everyones mind of things...strangely enough, I hear things are hotting up in and around the pacific. That could turn out to be fairly entertaining and distract everyone from real life here fer a bit ^
The EU does nothing to improve the people's lives?
First of all, these national socialists are primarily old east bloc nationals. Tell me with a straight face that the living standards haven risen dramatically in Poland, Hungary, Romania, Estonia and so forth since the 80's. Remember the way people had to demean themselves to get half a kilo of rotten potatoes in the 80's? Standing in line all day?
Yes, the average quality of life in the old eastern Europe is far below places like the western parts of Germany. That does not mean the EU isn't doing anything, it just means it's a humongous amount of work and responsibility everybody in Europe took upon themselves to equalise the living standards for all Europeans. This takes a lot of time. Decades. Generations, in fact.
As selfish as this might sound, I am actually starting to think that the best way to save Europe is to cut the ties with the "east bloc" countries who's ideas on how to "fix" things is to ruin it for everybody. If you miss those food lines from the 80's that much, I won't stop you from getting back to that life style. Just don't try to drag us down with you.
The EU isn't some outside entity. It's us.
Collectively as the EU we have made great strides to improve the quality of life and future prospects of European citizens. Chemical legislation, legal protections, environmental protection, food safety.
I don't really expect you to admit to it Patrick, but the EU has done a lot of good, for you as well. Nationalism is poison, and the little nationa of Europe are pretty helpless onntheir own. By banding together, we have enough strength to defend democratic values and human righs. Enough strength not to be bullied by the US or China.
On it's own France is insignificant on the world stage. As one of the strongest voices in the EU it is a great power.
The big reason for the refugee crisis is war in the Middle East and Northern Africa.
African population is still growing, but the trends are the same everywhere. The best we can do is to stop treating Africa as a bunch of poor, ignorant colonials, and to help them power up their technology and education. The faster African nationa can get secure and prosperous, the sooner we in the EU will have a huge continent to trade and cooperate with.
Anybody who worries about "Africans flooding into Europe" should be all for foreign aid for education, medicine and so forth. The better the conditions are over there, the less incentive there is to leave.
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