I loved FAS for its maneuverability but I switched to FDL cause of its better shield and the Class 4 hardpoint, I can kill any npcs quite easily with it.
FAS or FDL going forward?
- Thread starter [DOOK] Droogie
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I loved FAS for its maneuverability but I switched to FDL cause of its better shield and the Class 4 hardpoint, I can kill any npcs quite easily with it.
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I might try that loadout. All 3 multicannons in the same fire group I take it?
Unfortunately, I have to carry a cargo rack since I have commodities that I need for drive upgrades.
We need storage, and fast.
I think I'm just sick of the FDL for now. I flew it almost exclusively in 2.0, while neglecting my FAS. Gonna play with the catfish for a while. Rep sent out.
I'd like to see some of your loadout in 2.1.
FDL if you're a competent FA Off pilot, FAS if you aren't.
FDL has room for some very nice loadouts with the new C4 weps, has the speed to get where it needs and chase enemies down, no-one should ever say no to 6 utility slots, with bi-weave shields will keep going in a RES basically forever where the FAS will take chip damage regularly through the weak shields.
Main issue is inertia - if you boost at full speed you will take several years to turn around again without FA Off, and actually fighting without overshooting in the first place makes FA Off even more important. Learn to strafe fire etc. in this ship and never overcommit. This is exacerbated by its mediocre pitch speed. With FA On only flying you may as well fly a python and enjoy the greater firepower/internal slots.
FAS is the vulture's bigger brother. Far less complex to kill stuff with but sometimes there's just no shame in taking the less complex route. Slower so harder to get out of trouble when you're in their sights and has a bad time chasing anything down if it boosts regularly and shields aren't exactly cutter level protection. Pitches and thrusts laterally quite comfortably.
Whatever makes more sense to you...is the ship that makes more sense to you
FDL has room for some very nice loadouts with the new C4 weps, has the speed to get where it needs and chase enemies down, no-one should ever say no to 6 utility slots, with bi-weave shields will keep going in a RES basically forever where the FAS will take chip damage regularly through the weak shields.
Main issue is inertia - if you boost at full speed you will take several years to turn around again without FA Off, and actually fighting without overshooting in the first place makes FA Off even more important. Learn to strafe fire etc. in this ship and never overcommit. This is exacerbated by its mediocre pitch speed. With FA On only flying you may as well fly a python and enjoy the greater firepower/internal slots.
FAS is the vulture's bigger brother. Far less complex to kill stuff with but sometimes there's just no shame in taking the less complex route. Slower so harder to get out of trouble when you're in their sights and has a bad time chasing anything down if it boosts regularly and shields aren't exactly cutter level protection. Pitches and thrusts laterally quite comfortably.
Whatever makes more sense to you...is the ship that makes more sense to you
This absolutely drives me mad about the FDL. It's the one thing that makes me want to switch ships, I even made two threads about it in the past. Especially when pitching, the FDL will just lose all speed and stop dead and then it takes ages for it to pick up speed again. All of this in the middle of fights. I'm not sure if this intended or not, but I've never experienced this in any other combat ship. Against the new AI it is a liability.
I've flown the FAS for a long time too and it is in my mind the better ship all round combat ship. The only problem with it now is npcs like to do suicidal rams against you. I've been thinking about dropping the FDL for something more agile like the FAS or Vulture, but haven't decided yet. The FDL shields are very good but the constant throttle drop means rings are lost due to being dead in the water.
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FDL if you're a competent FA Off pilot, FAS if you aren't.
FDL has room for some very nice loadouts with the new C4 weps, has the speed to get where it needs and chase enemies down, no-one should ever say no to 6 utility slots, with bi-weave shields will keep going in a RES basically forever where the FAS will take chip damage regularly through the weak shields.
Main issue is inertia - if you boost at full speed you will take several years to turn around again without FA Off, and actually fighting without overshooting in the first place makes FA Off even more important. Learn to strafe fire etc. in this ship and never overcommit. This is exacerbated by its mediocre pitch speed. With FA On only flying you may as well fly a python and enjoy the greater firepower/internal slots.
FAS is the vulture's bigger brother. Far less complex to kill stuff with but sometimes there's just no shame in taking the less complex route. Slower so harder to get out of trouble when you're in their sights and has a bad time chasing anything down if it boosts regularly and shields aren't exactly cutter level protection. Pitches and thrusts laterally quite comfortably.
Whatever makes more sense to you...is the ship that makes more sense to you
The FAS is almost as fast as the FDL with boost. Cruise speed is a lot lower, but it hits 400 with boost.
With the FDL, I use FA off a lot, but you lose all of your speed in most turns with it on or off. I always have to boost out of a FA off turn, which turns fights into a jousting match.
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The Clipper does it, too. However, it has amazing pitch in both regular space and SC. It also accelerates fast and cruises crazy fast.
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The non boost speed is pretty under, but you're right - I completely forgot the FAS has a high boost speed.
Agreed on the FDL-which is exactly where most people fall down on the ship, myself included for a while. Its inertia is so bad that once you commit to the boost that if you overdo it you not only force yourself in to a jousting match, but a jousting match in which you may well be slower to turn in to.
FDL needs everything in moderation to avoid overcommitting. If anyone is having issues with it, I always encourage one thing to try: any time you ever boost in combat, do it with the throttle fully down. A second or so after boost kicks in, bring throttle back up if you need. That single alteration makes the world of difference to a FDL, which now has a high top speed without boosting, can get a little more speed over that by boosting with throttle down, and can get even more speed by throttling back up after boost kicks in. Most importantly it always stays under control doing this.
The FAS vs FDL argument is pretty synonymous with vulture vs iCourier. The FDL/iCourier are overall the more effective ships, but require both skillful piloting and almost constant attention to detail in flight. The FAS/Vulture have limitations, but they're so easy to fly out the box and let you concentrate more easily on areas such as distributor management - so in many cases the more sane option. Equally though it leads to ships like the iCourier, iClipper, FDL etc., getting either minimal or bad rep in the meta, because people talk about getting in a vulture and kick instant backside but get in a FDL and (in some way rightfully) get the feeling they're flying a space brick. The latter is easily as effective, but won't feel it at first-perhaps not for a couple of weeks, either.
FDL if you have a HOTAS setup its much better.
[video=youtube;JT2FS34YTSA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT2FS34YTSA[/video]
[video=youtube;JT2FS34YTSA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JT2FS34YTSA[/video]
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iCourier more effective than a vulture? You've gone mad...
Not in 2.1 he hasn't, the iCourier is the best smaller ship by a country mile with the new engines...
Nope - regular rail guns - actually the Rail-De-Lance.... a Hull tanked full stealth FDL with 4 Rails and 1 Huge PA. Prior to 2.1 you could go silent for a good while, and as long as you popped off a heat sink prior to firing you could get a good number of shots off without heat damage.
Now, even if you drop a heat sink and wait for temp to hit 0%, if you fire while silent, heat jumps to ~300%. Firing at 0% heat while not silent and you still jump to like 225%. I dropped my build to 2 rail guns, two pulses, 1 huge multi cannon and firing both rails at 0% heat with a heat sink and I still took heat damage while running silent. I stopped testing at that point as there is no point in not running shields if you can't run silent and fire a shot every now and then.
It's crazy fast. Still has weak firepower, a c3 distributor, and average maneuverability.
Vultures get the mods yes, but iCourier gets the "performance enhanced" thrusters (no snickering, please). They're only available in class 3 and below and have a lower optimal mass, but if you can keep weight under control gives a really tasty boost.
Even before 2.1 the iCourier held its own - but as stated, it really needs time to get used to. You can't hop in one like you can a vulture and get that insta-gratification, and to make it harder for people trying it out, it needs considered weight control to keep it nippy where the vulture is literally hard pressed to take enough weight to even touch its speed (one of its biggest but must undiscussed aspects). But if you can keep the iCourier under control, especially with the new thrusters, it's easily got the best non-tanking survivability going.
Manoeuvrability is well above average, and the only time I can see it being a let down is if you're stringently FA On and rely on pitching to get everywhere. It's got "unexceptional" pitching, yes - but lateral/vertical thrusting, as well as inertia control, are easily at vulture level now, if not better (truth be told I sold my vulture shortly after 2.1 dropped, so comparison is out the window currently).
But while everyone talks about agility, in practice I find straight line speed important too. If someone is going to suddenly boost turn on you when you're not right next to them- ever more an issue now NPCs control their pips properly and use blue zone turning effectively - you need to cover the ground to get to them and back behind them. In the iCourier, I'm back behind them and facing them before they can get a shot off. In the vulture, they inevitably get to land a few blasts on me before I've had the time to close the gap fully. A chaffing iCourier is also one of the hardest things to hit travelling at several hundred m/s.
Weak firepower...yes, thanks partially to the distributor. Which is why it also needs a considered weapon loadout, preferably not capacitor intense. I tend to use a single gimballed burst or beam and two C2 cannons. With its outstanding positioning ability its always going to have to be a power plant masher, and two C2 cannons really lend well to that.
Honestly, it's a ship not enough people give a proper go. And the firepower is indeed beneath the vulture. But holy crap that thing knows how to get where it needs and stick there.
I'd say FdL, but I'm biased. If you can live with its appalling travel performance (fuel scoop is a must), then you're flying in style. The FAS is all efficiency but has the charm of a brick. Well, for me at least. >.>
Did you read anything I wrote up there?
The only time I can hear anyone calling the iCourier an unmanoeuvrable ship, especially with the new thrusters, is if they've never flown one and are going off presumption-or built one and piled weight on. It's just as good in agility as well as being better in a straight line, which again I've mentioned is more important than people give credit to. But you know what is really telling? In a 1 on 1 pvp fight, the iCourier wins. That's why for ages the vulture has been touted as the PvE king before the FAS (and again largely because in both cases they fly well without much fine control), but in the PvP meta, vultures have never even really been considered. The iCourier on the other hand is known as one of the better PvP ships currently going.
Edit: I have nothing against the vulture as a ship. I sold mine because I can earn more money with my FDL or my clipper, and I personally find it as exciting to fly as a sponge. But with its pretty tasty firepower and weight handling on top of the agility, its an excellent ship for people that don't want to labour over fine tuning their ship and flight style - and also importantly, because of the higher DPS, a competent flier will get higher profits in the vulture. Even once the PP is down, the iCourier has to labour through the hull. But in the majority of one on one fights I consider a well flown vulture to be a threat-and a well flown iCourier to be a nightmare to kill
Edit 2: Also, NPCs fly iCouriers like total idiots. Even with the new AI.
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