FC Jump Cool-down Time

When we have these crazy long jump countdowns (like today over 35 min at times) - it is insulting to then have the normal long Jump Cool-down Time giving added delays before we can plot the next jump of our transit.

It must be possible to have the cool-down time shortened (or cancelled) if jump countdowns are way in excess of the 15 min norm. Any chance? (not a chance probably :rolleyes: )
 
I agree in terms of being annoying, but in terms of FC behavior, it doesn't make sense that cooldown isn't needed because the jump time is too long.
 
I agree in terms of being annoying, but in terms of FC behavior, it doesn't make sense that cooldown isn't needed because the jump time is too long.

I think that if the jump delay time is in excess of the 15 min then the cool-down time could be absorbed within the delay. It is just a time-soak at the moment, if they want to assert that it is a required safety mechanism in the imaginary system then that safety mechanism can be absorbed within these extended delays. At the moment, I am transiting my granny's FC to The Perseus Crags - I have been at it for four days and it is getting longer and longer each jump. I could have walked it quicker (except I couldn't have carried her FC in my Artemis suit).
 
That's not how it works though is it? The 5 minutes isn't some arbitrary number they just added on for fun - it's already the minimum.

I think you might be misunderstanding what I am saying. The Jump Timer countdown minimum is 15 min but there is also the Jump Cooldown Time - which is 3 minutes from the end of the jump. You cannot plot a course in that "cooldown time" and so what I am saying is that when the Jump Timer delay is over 15 minutes (say anything over 18 min), why can't we do away with the "cooldown time" (by determining that it is included in the excessive Jump Timer countdown for example).

Jump Cooldown Timer:

cooldown.jpg

Dump it when Jump Timer countdown is well over the 15 minute minimum:

jump timer.jpg
 
or, you could let the plot occur and give no 'cool down' delay at all and just absorb the cool down in the jump countdown all the time whether it's longer or standard. same effect in terms of time between jumps... but the player isn't stuck waiting an amount of time before plotting the next jump.

there is no technical reason why that wouldn't work. all these delays are for is throttling user's from the api calls that trigger updating the databases tracking carrier locations. that is accomplished just the same, you just don't have users having two timers to wait for, just one longer one.

i think fdev implemented the current setup to mimic fsd activation after a jump, but for all intents and purposes, players already have that effect with the countdown to jump timer. splitting that from being able to plot the next doesn't make any sense.

don't hold your breath though. the current behaviour isn't likely to change
 
and so what I am saying is that when the Jump Timer delay is over 15 minutes (say anything over 18 min), why can't we do away with the "cooldown time" (by determining that it is included in the excessive Jump Timer countdown for example).

Because it's quite likely they are dealing with two different processes, the pre-jump timer deals with setting the process log and making the database changes for the jump that's about to take place, and that can get longer due to the number of jumps taking place, you can't magically make the server run faster because it has more transaction lined up than it can do in a given time, the time just gets extended.

The post jump timer has to do with the system checking and comparing the pre-jump log and database changes to the actual changes made to make sure there are no discrepancies, for instance as sometimes happens when you exit the FC to check the new system you have arrived in and suddenly suddenly find yourself still sitting in the old system while the FC is 500ly away (this has fortunately only happened to me once).

This isn't magic they are dealing with, it's a complicated database change that has to take into account not just you, but any other players docked on your FC and anything stored by other players on your FC so they don't want you fiddling with stuff and initiating another jump while they are still validating the data from the previous jump. Would be pretty bad if the database update started generating logs before the data has been validated and included erroneous data, who knows where you might end up!
 
who knows where you might end up!
If someone ends up in Raxxla because of it, I wouldn’t argue.

(Don’t mind me, just making untimely and inappropriate jokes again. Did get a bit annoyed at the high jump timers earlier in this EU evening, even if I understand the reason behind it, as I was hopping the carrier around to make some changes to my FDL at various engineers. And I am not taking that ship for a spin across the Bubble by itself.)
 
If someone ends up in Raxxla because of it, I wouldn’t argue.

(Don’t mind me, just making untimely and inappropriate jokes again. Did get a bit annoyed at the high jump timers earlier in this EU evening, even if I understand the reason behind it, as I was hopping the carrier around to make some changes to my FDL at various engineers. And I am not taking that ship for a spin across the Bubble by itself.)

Not untimely and innapropriate, one mechanic I wish they had implemented was random endpoint jumps, though wormholes maybe, where you could end up anywhere in the galaxy, even outside it if you were lucky/unlucky (depending on your point of view) and had to find your own way back, or not if you were to far out of the galaxy, that would be fun, well some of us would consider it fun, some not so, but then it's a risk you don't need to take. Reminds me of the Heechee saga novels by Frederick Pohl, maybe a good basis for a game mechanic in ED!
 
database transactions don't take 15 min to complete for a game that has as few carrier concurrent users active as elite does. it's unlikely that the servers handling the back end are run on old Texas instrument calculators. location updates are little more than coordinates. checking if you are at the location you are supposed to be is basically instant, a comparison between the client and getting coordinates of the player or carrier from the server. something done when you look up items in the galaxy map or even module screen etc.

I'm pretty sure the timers are set the way they are out of laziness to copy the regular ship jump behaviour but scaled to add time sinks to what is believed to be a beneficial activity that many players won't have. the pre jump timer scales with quantity of pending jumps to keep those servers that are also handling transactions not related to carriers responsive because even though they don't take 15 min to do, they do involve a batch of location updates for other player assets and those take longer and can easily lead to blocking (pauses or time outs) for normal jumps players are doing all the time. so the frequency of carrier jumps needs to be throttled to avoid that.

that in mind, it wouldn't make any difference to just combine the necessary throttle timer with the time sink (added for game balance i guess) and avoid the delay in setting up the next jump. that really doesn't hurt anything since setting up a jump doesn't do anything but reserve a destination, and that doesn't involve batch updating locations or anything like that, so doing it doesn't block normal game behaviour.

or that could all be wrong and we just live with the worst coded database ever that takes a quarter of an hour to update a few bytes of text in some tables in a game with likely only a few hundred such carriers moving at a given time. even if it were a thousand, it would be a trivial amount of data that should be measured in seconds or less.
 
If system load is such that carriers can only jump every 40 minutes, then if they removed the cooldown (assuming it's merely cosmetic, which seems unlikely!) then all that would happen is the jump countdown timer would increase to 40+0, rather than 35+5. After your first jump (which would take longer this way) the time between jumps wouldn't be affected.
 
If someone ends up in Raxxla because of it, I wouldn’t argue.

(Don’t mind me, just making untimely and inappropriate jokes again. Did get a bit annoyed at the high jump timers earlier in this EU evening, even if I understand the reason behind it, as I was hopping the carrier around to make some changes to my FDL at various engineers. And I am not taking that ship for a spin across the Bubble by itself.)
It would be such a shame if that happened.

No one who has actually found Raxxla has been seen or heard of afterwards in either the game or the forums, it would be a shame if we lost more players that way.
 
afaik the carrier 'wind up' before jump is you waiting for your scheduled appointment with the carrier server. 5 minutes 'cooldown' is sync phase, where the carrier position is saved and synchronised across the network.
it was determined 15-5 is the shortest possible time schedule for jumps to operate consistently and safely (and that mightve been on a much better server/service) and there just isnt a place to modify those cooldowns.
also
its just 5 minutes... 🤷‍♂️
 
afaik the carrier 'wind up' before jump is you waiting for your scheduled appointment with the carrier server. 5 minutes 'cooldown' is sync phase, where the carrier position is saved and synchronised across the network.

Yeah I didn't mention the server syncing being part of the issue of you being left behind when your carrier jumps, FDEV have stated on multiple occasions that making the jump time shorter will lead to instabilities, and I have no reason to not believe them. In the beta the FC jump times were in the hours, and every time the players requested it be made shorter they did so, until it got to the current length and people still wanted to shorter but they said no. I have every reason to believe if they could have safely done that they would have.
 
The point I am trying to make is that if we are in the situation where the pre-jump countdown timer is well over the 15 min minimum then let us actually plot the next jump without having to wait the 3 minutes for the Cool-down Timer. That is all, not moaning about the pre-jump delay increasing in high-volume situations, just if it is going to be over 25 minutes, let us plot the next jump right away and get back to our movie. LOL

P.S. If it takes 3 minutes for the database to be sure you ended up where you asked then we need a new database structure.
 
The point I am trying to make is that if we are in the situation where the pre-jump countdown timer is well over the 15 min minimum then let us actually plot the next jump without having to wait the 3 minutes for the Cool-down Timer. That is all, not moaning about the pre-jump delay increasing in high-volume situations, just if it is going to be over 25 minutes, let us plot the next jump right away and get back to our movie. LOL

P.S. If it takes 3 minutes for the database to be sure you ended up where you asked then we need a new database structure.
A problem is every time you get the software to make a decision, has the jump taken too long, there are more things to go wrong.
 
The point I am trying to make is that if we are in the situation where the pre-jump countdown timer is well over the 15 min minimum then let us actually plot the next jump without having to wait the 3 minutes for the Cool-down Timer.

And as I said, the cool down timer is probably there to allow the database back end to verify the integrity of the database changes, you don't do this then everything can fall over. They don't want people messing with the data before it's verified by plotting a new jump until that data is verified, it's not a matter of just moving that to the pre-jump timer, they don't want you messing with it, it probably indeed only takes a few minutes to set up the database changes and logs, then you are waiting for a time slot to implement the changes to the database. It's 5 minutes, have some patience, as I said earlier, if they could have made it shorter they probably would have, understand that when carriers were released in the beta the pre-jump times was something like 6 hours, I really don't think they would worry about 5 minutes unless it was important!
 
or, you could let the plot occur and give no 'cool down' delay at all and just absorb the cool down in the jump countdown all the time whether it's longer or standard. same effect in terms of time between jumps... but the player isn't stuck waiting an amount of time before plotting the next jump.
That only helps players that are doing multiple jumps, but has negative impact on anybody doing a single jump. Currently anybody doing a single jump can ignore the cooldown timer and carry on with their business immediately upon arrival.

Also, if the cooldown timer was moved (added) to the standard 15 min jump time, the total amount of time before a cmdr can plot the next jump remains exactly the same.
 
Back
Top Bottom