FD...thanks for the upcoming T7 polish but...

[DukeIronHand]

...you really need to make it landable on medium pads.

I like doing all sorts of activities in ED. When one activity starts to feel "grindy" I switch to another. With that said trading is one of my activities and I spend a lot of time at the various ship building sites making "perfect" builds for assorted things.

Anyway, before this becomes a WoT, even with the upcoming (and much appreciated!) "buff" of the T7 it really is a ship that...almost has no place for it as a trader.

What I mean is that its capabilities, when combined with the "large pad only" criteria, make it a 3rd place choice for hauling bulk cargo.

If you make it capable of medium pad use now you have a clear winner instead of an "also ran" in my opinion and a ship without a real niche or utility.

Just food for thought if you desire it to get serious useage. I know I would buy one up in a hot second.

 

[Chazzie]

The T7 model has needed work for quite some time now - it's still one of the few ships that has massive holes in its geometry. I posted in the bug forum with pictures recently (beta 5).

Its still needing more attention.

 

[DukeIronHand]

Reworking the model sounds like a perfect time to chop 1.5 meters off of it.

 

[Lateralus]

It's hard to disagree with this... The T7 was created at a time when it was the only option to bridge the financial gap between Asp and Python/Clipper (so required a bit of a drawback), but there are loads of ways to do that now that do not require a T7.

Allowing the T7 to dock at outposts would make it a much more viable ship (and hopefully increase the amount of traders around).

 

[K-Rose]

Unpopular opinion here, but I like that it lands on a Large. It keeps the Python as the largest hauling medium ship, and makes it the first large ship you can purchase.

Bare in mind that it can now haul more than the Python, hauling 300+ cargo warrants a large ship, people complain enough about fitting 250 in the Python!

 

[Boomer Kay]

Unpopular opinion here, but I like that it lands on a Large. It keeps the Python as the largest hauling medium ship, and makes it the first large ship you can purchase.

Bare in mind that it can now haul more than the Python, hauling 300+ cargo warrants a large ship, people complain enough about fitting 250 in the Python!

T9 can haul 500 compared to the Anaconda's ~400, so having a cargo advantage on the T7 while being inferior in all other aspects but landeable on medium pads would put in on par with the Python imo.

 

[Shintai]

I agree with the medium pad. Else you end up with the same question as always. Why not trade in a Python.

 

[K-Rose]

T9 can haul 500 compared to the Anaconda's ~400, so having a cargo advantage on the T7 while being inferior in all other aspects but landeable on medium pads would put in on par with the Python imo.

Not sure why the T9 & Anaconda are being compared?

T7 is a hauler, it's a freight train, it's not meant to be smuggling things around. It's the entry level Large trader. This is all just my opinion but I think it fits a lot better with it's designed role not being able to land at Outposts.

That and it's too tall, it'd need a complete redesign. Maybe I'm just a bit sentimental to such fundamental changes to the design of one of the first trading ships.

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I agree with the medium pad. Else you end up with the same question as always. Why not trade in a Python.

Because now the T7 holds a lot more than the Python.

If you're doing a CG into a large station, for instance like the recent one for the Colonia Connection, you'd use a T7 over a Python any day. All the materials can be sourced close by from large stations, no need for Outposts.

Outposts are useful for smuggling & buying slaves, I've been in large ships for many months now, I don't miss the ability to land at outposts at all.

 

[Shintai]

Unpopular opinion here, but I like that it lands on a Large. It keeps the Python as the largest hauling medium ship, and makes it the first large ship you can purchase.

Bare in mind that it can now haul more than the Python, hauling 300+ cargo warrants a large ship, people complain enough about fitting 250 in the Python!

I haul 256 in my Python. And that includes a class 5 shield and a SRV bay. If I use the same configuration on a new T7. I can haul 264. Hardly any change.

The max shieldless and 100% cargo for both are 292 for the Python and 304 for the T7

The issue is simply that dedicated trading ships doesn't have some kind of dedicated cargo bays with some better option. Either the slots can be locked or they can simply introduce a Cargo XL rack only these can use. A bit like the Beluga and Orca in both ways. I would like to see the T7 haul 375-450.

 

[K-Rose]

I haul 256 in my Python. And that includes a class 5 shield and a SRV bay. If I use the same configuration on a new T7. I can haul 264. Hardly any change.

The max shieldless and 100% cargo for both are 292 for the Python and 304 for the T7

The issue is simply that dedicated trading ships doesn't have some kind of dedicated cargo bays with some better option. Either the slots can be locked or they can simply introduce a Cargo XL rack only these can use. A bit like the Beluga and Orca in both ways. I would like to see the T7 haul 375-450.

The insurance is a lot cheaper on your T7, it's a lot cheaper to A grade.

I'm not saying it's a complete replacement, but for CG it would be given the danger you're in.

My other main point is that it's the entry level major trader. You get it for under 15M in Li space, you get a Python for 40M in Li space, it's a big difference.

 

[iFred]

(right answer in wrong thread - apologize.... *runs*)

 

[Boomer Kay]

Not sure why the T9 & Anaconda are being compared?

T7 is a hauler, it's a freight train, it's not meant to be smuggling things around. It's the entry level Large trader. This is all just my opinion but I think it fits a lot better with it's designed role not being able to land at Outposts.

That and it's too tall, it'd need a complete redesign. Maybe I'm just a bit sentimental to such fundamental changes to the design of one of the first trading ships.


Because now the T7 holds a lot more than the Python.

If you're doing a CG into a large station, for instance like the recent one for the Colonia Connection, you'd use a T7 over a Python any day. All the materials can be sourced close by from large stations, no need for Outposts.

Outposts are useful for smuggling & buying slaves, I've been in large ships for many months now, I don't miss the ability to land at outposts at all.

Huh???


Comparing the T9-Conda because those are competing for "large pads" and because it's the "dedicated vessel" vs. "multirole" thing at different levels.

By keeping the T7 Large Pad only, it's not competing with the Python, it's competing with the T9 for a nieche, which it doesn't have, because the T9 is straight up better in all regards.
It should be competing with the Python for "mid range hauler of choice", which is doesn't, because it's large pad only.

 

[K-Rose]

Huh???


Comparing the T9-Conda because those are competing for "large pads" and because it's the "dedicated vessel" vs. "multirole" thing at different levels.

By keeping the T7 Large Pad only, it's not competing with the Python, it's competing with the T9 for a nieche, which it doesn't have, because the T9 is straight up better in all regards.
It should be competing with the Python for "mid range hauler of choice", which is doesn't, because it's large pad only.

And FD have said they want to look at the T9's role again as a major cargo hauler.

It's not competing with the T9, it's 60M less than the T9, and that's just the stock hull!

Not everyone has hundreds of millions, many people are still building up their cash reserves. I've seen posts of people who've played since Alpha but still only have about 20-30M in assets. You think they care whether the T7 is competing with the T9? It's not because it's not in their price range.


You're arguing why would anyone have a Viper over a FDL, why would anyone have a Caterham over a Ferrari, why would anyone have a Police Helicopter over an Apache Gunship.

 

[Garix]

Huh???


Comparing the T9-Conda because those are competing for "large pads" and because it's the "dedicated vessel" vs. "multirole" thing at different levels.

By keeping the T7 Large Pad only, it's not competing with the Python, it's competing with the T9 for a nieche, which it doesn't have, because the T9 is straight up better in all regards.
It should be competing with the Python for "mid range hauler of choice", which is doesn't, because it's large pad only.

It's not even close to competing for a new player.

T7 (17.5Mil) vs T9 (76.5Mil). Even the Python is 3 times the cost of a T7.

Not all players (new or old) have used (abused?) Sothis and it's friends so money is tight for them.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Not everyone has hundreds of millions, many people are still building up their cash reserves. I've seen posts of people who've played since Alpha but still only have about 20-30M in assets. You think they care whether the T7 is competing with the T9? It's not because it's not in their price range.

If they were any good at trading, they would not have those issues.
My T7 earned me my python, my T9 earned me my corvette.
Do you think I go back to a T7? No?
I go back to a T6, because that thing has a nieche and it's not it's good cargo capacity.

Not all players (new or old) have used (abused?) Sothis and it's friends so money is tight for them.

Made 600 million before I ever got near Sothis. Or Robigo. Or 200mio payout CGs.
Why does a ship need to stay largely useless because self proclaimed traders aren't good at trading?

 

[Garix]

If they were any good at trading, they would not have those issues.
My T7 earned me my python, my T9 earned me my corvette.
Do you think I go back to a T7? No?
I go back to a T6, because that thing has a nieche and it's not it's good cargo capacity.




Made 600 million before I ever got near Sothis. Or Robigo. Or 200mio payout CGs.
Why does a ship need to stay largely useless because self proclaimed traders aren't good at trading?

Of course they must be rubbish at trading. It's so obvious. There can't possibly be another reason. My eye have been opened. Thank you good sir. Thank you.

 

[K-Rose]

If they were any good at trading, they would not have those issues.
My T7 earned me my python, my T9 earned me my corvette.
Do you think I go back to a T7? No?
I go back to a T6, because that thing has a nieche and it's not it's good cargo capacity.




Made 600 million before I ever got near Sothis. Or Robigo. Or 200mio payout CGs.
Why does a ship need to stay largely useless because self proclaimed traders aren't good at trading?

See I can do the same to you, why would you go back to a T6 when you could go back to an Asp?

More cargo, better arms, better jump range, better shields. Why would anyone choose a Type-6 over an Asp?!


I like that you're defending the T7, but the vast majority of ships become useless. Nearly every ship below a Cobra is more useless in every way than a Cobra, why would anyone choose a Hauler or an Adder when they could have a Cobra?!

 

[Boomer Kay]

See I can do the same to you, why would you go back to a T6 when you could go back to an Asp?

More cargo, better arms, better jump range, better shields. Why would anyone choose a Type-6 over an Asp?!

6 5 3 3 3
5 5 4 4 3

That's why.

 

[K-Rose]

6 5 3 3 3
5 5 4 4 3

That's why.

Ah I see, you don't like the number 6.

 

[Boomer Kay]

Ah I see, you don't like the number 6.

Nope. I don't like the number 3.
It's a mostly useless internal compartment size. You can fit "something" in there, but many things are better in size 4-5 (yay to non-linear internals) - some even cap at size 4 and the one size 6 does not make up for all the shortcomings.

tl;dr for a medium size ship, the T6 is amazeling.