Fdev hint at space legs (Ship theft) Too soon™ - Barben video link inside

[nexusreject]

There are a few problems with "Grand Theft Space Ship".

1. How do you get to where a space ship is left parked, except with a space ship of your own. This means you're essentially trading space ships.

2. Who is responsible for the rebuy cost of a stolen ship? If it's the thief, this can become the single greatest form of griefing since the discovery of Spawn Camping. I steal your Billion Credit+ Cutter, pancake it into Achenar 3, don't rebuy it, you're out a ship. If the owner is responsible, this paves the way to not just griefing by destruction, but could well open the door to outright blackmail - "Ok, look, I'll return your ship without destroying it, just send me a PayPal of $200."

3. Ship Transfer - If the ship still belongs to its owner, not the thief, a simply ship transfer should then route the thief from wherever the ship is to which ever station the owner is at, who should then be standing by at whichever pad the transfer ship is delivered, with an army of armed station security to greet them.

4. GTA 5 Online is all the evidence we need why this is a terrible form of player interaction

Now, if we're limited just to hijacking NPC ships, this isn't quite so bad, since NPC's have no feelings to hurt, can't be blackmailed, don't post 100+ pages of btching in the forums, have unlimited funds for rebuys and can even make full repairs to all systems and reload all weapons simply by frame shift jumping. But this still leaves #1 as a minor problem.

I did say NPC

 

[S3B4ST13N]

This is just how I see it going down:

1. How do you get to where a space ship is left parked, except with a space ship of your own. This means you're essentially trading space ships.

Space Legs.
EVA.

2. Who is responsible for the rebuy cost of a stolen ship?
If it's the thief, this can become the single greatest form of griefing since the discovery of Spawn Camping. I steal your Billion Credit+ Cutter, pancake it into Achenar 3, don't rebuy it, you're out a ship. If the owner is responsible, this paves the way to not just griefing by destruction, but could well open the door to outright blackmail - "Ok, look, I'll return your ship without destroying it, just send me a PayPal of $200."

Both parties. If I steal your ship and crash it into a sun because [reasons]. I am responsible for the rebuy (assuming I managed to "clear stolen record" of the ship and gain insurance for it otherwise I lose out and have nothing to show for my efforts). However, after the theft of your ship, you can make a claim at your nearest insurance branch and get refunded a new ship; however after doing so, ownership is removed from your old ship though it is still marked as STOLEN.

3. Ship Transfer - If the ship still belongs to its owner, not the thief, a simply ship transfer should then route the thief from wherever the ship is to which ever station the owner is at, who should then be standing by at whichever pad the transfer ship is delivered, with an army of armed station security to greet them.

You still own the ship until either a) you have claimed from insurance or b) the thief has docked it at a station, and used the Black Market to either sell it off or wipe it's ownership record transferring ownership to themselves.

4. GTA 5 Online is all the evidence we need why this is a terrible form of player interaction

I've been frustrated from time to time to see my car being stolen, but I've also laughed my butt off in how players find other ways to get the vehicle from me. It's quite a fun experience.

Having your ship stolen is the equivalent to having it blown up. At the end of the day, you pay insurance and you get a new ship.

 

[S3B4ST13N]

The 'exclusive' cobra IV already ruled it out completely.

"This ship is an exclusive and as such can only be sold for scrap at an anarchy Black Market. Being scanned whislt in this ship will raise your notoriety as filthy criminal scum and is grounds for immediate destruction."
Kinda of like being the only person who owns a Bugatti in the country and having the car stolen.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

This is just how I see it going down:


Space Legs.
EVA.

So you're just going to space-walk all the way from Wei Tu Lo station in Ming Fu to LV-426 to steal that Anaconda parked there some 480 Light Year away? By the time you get there, not only will you have long perished of birthday toxicity, but Star Citizen 17 will be released.

Both parties. If I steal your ship and crash it into a sun because [reasons]. I am responsible for the rebuy (assuming I managed to "clear stolen record" of the ship and gain insurance for it otherwise I lose out and have nothing to show for my efforts). However, after the theft of your ship, you can make a claim at your nearest insurance branch and get refunded a new ship; however after doing so, ownership is removed from your old ship though it is still marked as STOLEN.

This sounds.... almost reasonable, at least like it was thought about.

You still own the ship until either a) you have claimed from insurance or b) the thief has docked it at a station, and used the Black Market to either sell it off or wipe it's ownership record transferring ownership to themselves.

I see some potential complications and bugs resulting from C&P with a sort of "dual ownership", mostly bugs resulting.

I've been frustrated from time to time to see my car being stolen, but I've also laughed my butt off in how players find other ways to get the vehicle from me. It's quite a fun experience.

Having your ship stolen is the equivalent to having it blown up. At the end of the day, you pay insurance and you get a new ship.

I wasn't thinking so much of the experience of having a vehicle stolen, so much as the extensive amount of cheating that goes on, despite accounts being wiped or banned, it remains twice as popular as just playing the game.[/QUOTE]

 

[S3B4ST13N]

So you're just going to space-walk all the way from Wei Tu Lo station in Ming Fu to LV-426 to steal that Anaconda parked there some 480 Light Year away? By the time you get there, not only will you have long perished of birthday toxicity, but Star Citizen 17 will be released.

I didn't think of it like that; I was thinking of it along the lines of you and I being in the same station at the same time.
However, in this particular case, I would land at LV-426, and then steal your stuff. Ship docked (safely or unsafely). Would be rather ironic and humorous to have your ship stolen whilst stealing anothers ship. Although, you could just make sure it was a cheapy sidewinder once you land.
It could also happen that I am with a friend. He disables your ship, we board it, we kill you, we steal your stuff.

This sounds.... almost reasonable, at least like it was thought about.

Thank you.
I think?

I see some potential complications and bugs resulting from C&P with a sort of "dual ownership", mostly bugs resulting.

Multi-Crew already demonstrates we can control parts of another players ship. Just that one extra step of allowing others to control your ship while you're not on it. That's for development to tackle though.

I wasn't thinking so much of the experience of having a vehicle stolen, so much as the extensive amount of cheating that goes on, despite accounts being wiped or banned, it remains twice as popular as just playing the game.

Nothing much to be done about that unfortunately. Some people will cheat. By insuring that the Cmdr can claim insurance from a stolen ship, it would be a mild inconvenience if someone cheated and took your stuff. (IMHO).

 

[IndigoWyrd]

I didn't think of it like that; I was thinking of it along the lines of you and I being in the same station at the same time.
However, in this particular case, I would land at LV-426, and then steal your stuff. Ship docked (safely or unsafely). Would be rather ironic and humorous to have your ship stolen whilst stealing anothers ship. Although, you could just make sure it was a cheapy sidewinder once you land.
It could also happen that I am with a friend. He disables your ship, we board it, we kill you, we steal your stuff.

Within a station, sure, it makes sense. But we don't typically spend our time just sitting around stations, which means stations would need full interiors with things to be distracted by to make this feasible - which puts this sort of thing pretty distant into the future. Of course, there's more involved here than simply hotwiring a ship or taking someone's keys - you've got flight control to contend with as well, docking clamps to have unlocked, which means proper authorization required. It would be close to stealing a police car, from a police station, in a police parking garage with no one noticing. Not impossible, but highly improbable. Acquiring a ship landed on a planet surface wouldn't have quite so many issues. See below.

Thank you.
I think?

Quite welcome. It's refreshing when someone actually thinks first, then types.

Multi-Crew already demonstrates we can control parts of another players ship. Just that one extra step of allowing others to control your ship while you're not on it. That's for development to tackle though.

Multi-crew... so often talked about, so seldom used, so often plagued with performance issues. I can also see you and your friend disable a ship, board it, they get disconnected, you get killed, I call my friend in via Multi-Crew Insta-Transgalactic Telepresense, and he steals your ship, then your friend reconnects, and finds he can no longer join your crew, because your crew is now dead on a distant planet minus a ship. Could happen.

Nothing much to be done about that unfortunately. Some people will cheat. By insuring that the Cmdr can claim insurance from a stolen ship, it would be a mild inconvenience if someone cheated and took your stuff. (IMHO).

Sadly true, but I suspect it would give those predisposed to cheat even more reason to do so.

 

[wstephenson]

Multi-Crew already demonstrates we can control parts of another players ship. Just that one extra step of allowing others to control your ship while you're not on it. That's for development to tackle though.

Weee-lll, strictly in multicrew you're in a wing, but controlling part of a clone of your pilot's ship, with state synced between instances. Where that matters is the authority over the important stuff, like ship destruction. That would have to be transferred cleanly upon finally taking control of the ship, and we had/have enough desync issues in multicrew. Would make for a better multicrew experience if solved.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

Weee-lll, strictly in multicrew you're in a wing, but controlling part of a clone of your pilot's ship, with state synced between instances. Where that matters is the authority over the important stuff, like ship destruction. That would have to be transferred cleanly upon finally taking control of the ship, and we had/have enough desync issues in multicrew. Would make for a better multicrew experience if solved.

Makes me think of another realistic, potentially fun situation, at least for those who find fun in taking from those who have worked hard to have nice things when they're too self-important or lazy to do the work themselves, or feel like they're owed something simply for existing, but that's a whole other topic for a whole other forum....

How about Mutiny? I join your Multi-crew, earn your trust, stab you in the back, steal your ship and jettison your carcass into a nearby black hole? I mean, the hard part is already done, I'm on your ship, on your bridge, manning either your guns or your fighters, but what if I'd rather man the helm? Mutiny, I tell you, Mutiny.

 

[LanceLord]

If players are able to steal my ships, then I'm definitely switching to Solo, LOL.

OTOH, getting ganked immediately after waking up from this immersive SC take on logging in at 2:47:

by some murder hobo who broke into your ship is an intruiging prospect. Well at least for those Cmdrs who enjoy the thrill and danger of playing in Open that is.
Emergent game play like that would make for some interesting youtube video entertainment by ppl like ObsidianAnt. lol.

In a perfect world, the 2020 update would add immersive interiors to our ships in addition to space legs like shown in the SC video. But that's likely a pipe dream. However, if we DO get space legs in the update, then I'm hoping this level of SC interaction will be possible inside our ships. The ability to wake up in your bunk. And immediately stand up right after logging in, without any of that unnecessary stretching rubbish shown in the video. Seems like CI devs finally cut out all that unnecessary realism in animations when you wake up/log on from v3.6 to v3.7. So now you can immediately stand up right after log in/waking up.

After getting up, be able to explore and interact with the interior of your ship to the degree you can in SC. Ship interiors would be standard based on ship type. For example, a Sidey's interior could be similar in layout to the one shown here in SC's 300i (one of the smaller SC ships):

So all Sidey interiors would have the same layout that would differ from the much larger/expensive Asp v. flagships like the Cutter etc. That's give or take any optional, customized option modules. Which you could buy with credits to add more interactivity with the ship. Functional stuff that at minimum, could give you the ability to :

1. access a wardrobe area, where you can dress your Holo Me in whatever civilian clothing and armor you bought in the store. Using the exact same menu screen we now have in game.
2. access a weapons and tools lockers to configure your personal inventory weapon and tools load out. Tools locker would store all purchased hand held versions of tools that currently exist on your ship i.e. a manual data scanner, mining tools, etc.
3. access a bathroom area/medicine cabinet where you can store health aids (that you buy at space stations). These would replenish health by extending the timer on your emergency body armor in the event your Holo Me takes damage from any EVA activity outside the ship.

Adding this level of immersion would definitely make both PvP and PvE game play styles far more fun to play. PvP players would be more incentivized to engage in ganking illegaly commandeering doing piracy and other related criminal activities in Open. PvE players would be more incentivized to grind missions in PG & Solo. Where they could buy more customization/functional module crap with their billions of credits to make their ship interiors better optimized for EVA activities etc.

 

[Hanerib]

All I ever wanted was dancing animations for the space legs. It's going to get crazy at Jaques.

 

[Franc Kaos]

Everything in every game ever is shallow, depending on at what level you look at it. However, when you show ED to a new player, and explain how combat (all different weapons and defences, different engineering options and ships) mining (the different types, scanners, limpets, ship outfitting choices, combined with RES types, hotspots) etc it is very obvious that 'shallow and half-baked' is just an indication of your wild imagination. Outfitting a mining ship, mining it and selling it at an appropriate place is infinitely deeper than mining is in NMS, SC or X4. You are just saying "everything that exists is shallow and half-baked because I can imagine awesomer.

You're confusing depth with complexity.

Having a market where you could buy and sell ships at different profit margins because of the local economy would be depth, an economy that is dynamic due to player and NPC buying and selling goods in the local systems. Actual power shifts (that don't tick tock back and forth) between the various galactic factions due to player engagements, leading to actual wars / outbreaks (that lasted for longer than the weekly tick), and that players could engage in to turn the tide etc would be depth.

Complexity is having 150 different minerals, software and manufactured components that you have to grind for in various unrelated activities (taking hours and hours because RNG), then take them to certain engineers who then require diferent things from your collecting (which you can't buy because reasons), then upgrade your systems from step one to step five over and over and over again per ship.

Complexity vs Depth - IMHO.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You're confusing depth with complexity.

Having a market where you could buy and sell ships at different profit margins because of the local economy would be depth, an economy that is dynamic due to player and NPC buying and selling goods in the local systems. Actual power shifts (that don't tick tock back and forth) between the various galactic factions due to player engagements, leading to actual wars / outbreaks (that lasted for longer than the weekly tick), and that players could engage in to turn the tide etc would be depth.

Complexity is having 150 different minerals, software and manufactured components that you have to grind for in various unrelated activities (taking hours and hours because RNG), then take them to certain engineers who then require diferent things from your collecting (which you can't buy because reasons), then upgrade your systems from step one to step five over and over and over again per ship.

Complexity vs Depth - IMHO.

Can you provide actual, clear, definitions of 'depth' and 'complexity' instead of merely saying 'the stuff I want is depth, what I have is complexity'?