FDEv, Open now is Bambi vs. Godzilla, please consider having an Open server that is PvE only

Do new players deserve to play Elite in a multiplayer environment from the start? Unlike World of Warcraft with its multitude of different kinds of servers, i.e. PvP only or PvE only, there is only one Open multiplayer server in Elite. New players in Elite wanting the multiplayer environment don't have a choice but to play with Godzilla. One has to keep in mind newly minted Commanders may not know about PvE player groups, which as you know are filling up. One cannot also assume that everyone has had experience with sandbox MMOs.

Until C&P is finally figured out and implemented, Bambi will get squished in the current Open. People are always telling Bambi's who actually post about their obliteration, to "git gud" or to high wake out. This is not only disheartening, but it can also be frustrating. A new player is learning a lot of new stuff at once and telling them to high wake, but don't forget to select a destination in your left hand panel and oh yeah, also don't forget to make sure there isn't a planet in your way, etc. is a lot to remember when one is already afraid of getting stuck in the mail slot.

In addition, I don't recall any of the training missions available teaching new players that they will get interdicted and how to avoid it. A training mission describing the difference between lo waking and high waking and when to use them would be nice, too.

Right now the easiest thing to remember defense against Godzilla is to combat log. Although I abhor logging in consensual PvP, a panicked Bambi in the heat of an unsolicited encounter might as well.

Thank you.

o7



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-wUdetAAlY
 
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Slange Lands, totally understandable suggestion that I empathise with - I think though that what you are describing already exists in the form of Solo Play. This is technically PvE and Open, so to try and understand you better, what you really want is for there to be a clearer tutorial or description of what new players are going to face and experience when playing the game?

When I first started (which I think was sometime in November last year, so not long ago) I was utterly bewildered by an unexpected interdiction, so I get what you're saying there - and I was attacked by an Elite player as well shortly after this, but this didn't stop me from playing, on the contrary it gave me drive perhaps to learn more about what had happened and why. I also joined a superpower group that I have learned, and am continuing to learn, a lot from.

To having another Open galaxy: I think we have this already

To having a clearer introduction to the game: Sure, that would be fantastic for new players!
 
Surely that concerns some management aspects of Frontier.
No, they don't care. If they cared at all, they would fix private groups so that they could have more than 20k members.

I'd love a cooperative PvE open server, but I don't expect to ever get one.
 
If there was an official PvE mode, I'm pretty sure PvP would whither and die.

Sooooooo many people want it. Lol

That said, Beyond is looking to fix C&P.

Another solution might be to simply not instance newbies with low karma (when available) or notorious/wanted CMDRs for a while*. (With an option to disable the "protection" at any time)

Clean, good karma CMDRs can still mingle, because some of us actually loiter around the starting systems helping new comers.

*How long is up for debate, but I'd say the until you rack up 10~ hours of flight.

CMDR Cosmic Spacehead
 
Whilst I disagree and want Open to remain the wild west, I DO think that Open in the menu description should be a lot clearer with signposts saying that Non-Consensual PvP can occur, amongst other things.

The text should be in terms of challenge though, rather than framed negatively.

$2c
 
Smart weapons would be good which wouldnt fire on non hostile or ships without bounties.

Pirates could buy illegal weapons from dodgy outfitters.
Normal outfitters would no longer maintain these dodgy illegal pirate vessels - forcing pirates into there own anarchy areas.
 
Good points, but...

A) Who actually does the tutorials (I did, for two weeks, because I knew OPEN means OPEN)
B) Who actually reads the manual, or pays any attention to signposts in 'Oooh, shiny!" mode?
C) Who actually... [I'll come back and edit this if I think of one, lol]

Suggestion: (Ripped off from another open world PvP, immune level<30 but it worked...)

Harmless - PvP immunity - Elite GOD-MOD huge PA's (etc) do ZERO damage to shields
Mostly Harmless - PvP gank damage significantly reduced - Warning "GIT GUD"
Novice - All bets are off and you're on your own sunshine, run or die trying...

Maybe, just maybe they'll read the congratulations you leveled up...

Prepare to be ganked message?

[Edit: lol, if you're Harmless and turn your own shields off you're in deep doo-doo :D]
 
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Smart weapons would be good which wouldnt fire on non hostile or ships without bounties.

Pirates could buy illegal weapons from dodgy outfitters.
Normal outfitters would no longer maintain these dodgy illegal pirate vessels - forcing pirates into there own anarchy areas.

The smart rounds engineering mod already does that for non-targeted vessels.
On multicanons at least.
 
The problem with a "PvE mode" is that Elite is fundamentally designed not to have a bright-line distinction between PvP and PvE.

If someone is in the same instance as you they can inconvenience you - and possibly even get you killed - without having to fire a shot.

Mobius works (or Fleetcomm, which has a somewhat different set of rules of allowed and disallowed activities) because it has a real person setting out rules and then moderating to them. Frontier should absolutely be looking at making private groups easier to maintain
- delegated maintenance
- higher size limits (if possible, though this may be a deep technical thing, and 20k is probably already way higher than they initially expected to need)
- better search/advertising on the main menu for PGs so people can find ones which suit how they want to play more easily
- [a whole bunch of other things that Mobius or grnbrg or another major PG maintainer can no doubt tell them better than me!]
(Hopefully we'll see some of this - as well as general overhauls of the PG and Friends List interfaces - as part of the Squadrons update later this year)

An official PvE mode wouldn't work - the difference between a hostile act and a friendly one can sometimes be entirely down to out-of-game context.

For example: I'm flying an Anaconda, and fly up to someone mining in their T-6. I launch a swarm of collector limpets. Is this PvP or PvE? It could be some pre-emptive PvP piracy, or I could be helping someone out who has brought too small a refinery by refining the goods which I'll then abandon for them later.

For example: we're both flying in the same RES. I'm in a FDL, you're in a Viper. I blow up an Anaconda - is this PvE bounty hunting, or am I specifically targeting the same ships you're after and using my superior firepower to stop you claiming the money, or am I targeting the same ships you're after because RES spawn rates aren't that high and we both want to shoot something?

Working out a set of "PvE" collision rules which doesn't allow damaging other players by ramming *and* doesn't allow trapping other players in/out of stations is I think impossible.

(In all of these cases, of course, a Private Group moderated by a person with human qualities such as intelligence, the ability to assess context, and basic common sense will have no trouble telling the difference and reacting accordingly ... but computers will be stumped on all of that for decades to come)
 
Good news OP, as soon as you put this request up, it was fulfilled!

Just open your game and click "Private Group".

Thankyou for your time.

P.S. the game has no servers that host our session, so you physically cannot have a "PvE server". The ED galaxy is all one and the same, and simply changes who you see by changing your instancing. When you dock at a station, you're docking at the very same station peeps are docking at in Open, and with the right shenanigannery can force the game to let you see the other players from PG anyway. Sorry, no magical anti-hurty rules for ya.

If there was an official PvE mode, I'm pretty sure PvP would whither and die.

You keep telling yourself that ;)
 
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The best way to participate in multiplayer PVE is within a Private Group. If Frontier had an official open multiplayer PVE then there would be people joining it to try to scupper other people's fun, and I'm sure they'd find some way of doing it.

Even the unofficial Mobius group had people trying to spoil other players' enjoyment. The way Frontier has the multiplayer set up may not be perfect, but it does have its advantages. I have no desire to play with the sort of children who think it's cool to UA bomb a charity event.

Of course everyone playing in private groups does make it hard to find people to play with. I guess that's when Forums like this come in handy.
 
C) Who actually... [I'll come back and edit this if I think of one, lol]

Ok, I thought of one...

Some of the training missions are actually quite good, and helpful to new players, but...

Why is there not (already) some kind of scripted and voice acted "Tutorial" that is forced to run once on each new account (tedious for the multi-account holders, granted) such that the "new" player is placed in a completely separate instance away from the general (mad-house) population where they do the training missions anyway...

Hold their hand and walk them step by step through the first pre-flight check, explain how to target the local star to get into supercruise when they discover they can't just do what the instructions say and jump straight out of the system because the planet they're on is facing the wrong way (omg, nobody thought of that?) and arrange an interdiction...

Maybe let them have a go at docking first, but get them used to using supercruise by sending them to another station in the local system first instead of making them try to dodge their first stellar collision before they know how to steer? Maybe show them how to approach a planet, and land on the surface, and use the SRV to pickup a few escape pods...

Then they could continue on to negotiate landing permission at a surface port, then maybe take something to a local station, to avoid problems caused by the dynamic galaxy, and planets that rotate? Then maybe interdict them for a bit of combat practice, make it fairly easy to kill at least one ship, maybe two, then make sure they die / respawn...

Now, this respawn doesn't count on your 'insurance claims' statistic because the freewinder is free and they can be locked out of the Outfitting / Shipyard until after the tutorial is complete. At least they'll have basic flight practice before they start trying to make or spend any money and, they're familiar with what the rebuy screen looks like too...

Perhaps instead of making Mostly / Harmless PvP immune the newbie can just have an "Administrative Lock" on their FSD so they can't get out of the start system until they pass the basic pilots license test. Surely the insurers get sick of all those newbie claims? Once they leave, or are forced out at some point, they cannot get back in, for any reason...

Having served as a volunteer 'helper' in a game with a default /help channel there was one thing that was repeated over and over again - "Don't skip the tutorial" which was a teensy bit selfish I guess, since the main reason was to significantly reduce the number of questions that always came up and were about to be answered in the next few seconds...

Provided they didn't skip it! Most games have some basic tutorial so players can get familiar with, and reset to their preference, basic controls and the interface they'll use while in combat and general gameplay. They can learn the station services interface once they can take off, fly somewhere and land without dying. And, you have their attention...

For an ever so fleeting moment they might be reading instructions and listening to the voice acting. NOW is the time to tell them "Once you leave this system we can't protect you, and it's CMDR season!" Right before they pass their 'test' and unlock their FSD with full system jump authority. They might die next door, but that's not your problem... :p

Or, do both. PvP immune until Mostly Harmless, when they pass the 'test' and unlock the FSD?
 
I think there should be no more way to segregate the playerbase. Open play should have large territories for solo/pve players where there is no pvp possible or full compensation for the victim from the agressor. High sec systems with no pvp, and "wild lands" with it.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/403811-open-solo-play-autopilot-emergency-call

The mechanism for this is already in place, I keep yelling about giving the security system proper teeth ;)

(I'll go look and drag the post over if I can find it)

Found: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/403967-Beyond-3-0-Beta-2-Incoming?p=6365815#post6365815
 
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You keep telling yourself that ;)

:p

Well probably not die, but all the PvP crowd would probably be huddled in a single system just endlessly blowing eachother up. :p

(I jest... Mostly) :D

Nah, even if we had a dedicated PvE mode, all that would do is remove most of the need for large private groups, such as Mobius.
It wouldn't effect Open hardly at all.

I still like to venture in open a lot, unless I'm determined to get something done fast or uninterrupted, then I'll stick to solo or Mobius.
 
The mechanism for this is already in place, I keep yelling about giving the security system proper teeth ;)

(I'll go look and drag the post over if I can find it)

There is ATR - Advanced Tactical Repsonse coming, but on reddit a guy with pvp experience said, he easily killed many of those (I think in the beta server). :( It would be soooo easy to give the clean commanders 100% protection or repayment even for cargo/data in open, to make solo/pve ppl happy and give them safety in large part of space in open, I don't understand how can years passed without implementing it...
 
:p

Well probably not die, but all the PvP crowd would probably be huddled in a single system just endlessly blowing eachother up. :p

(I jest... Mostly) :D

Nah, even if we had a dedicated PvE mode, all that would do is remove most of the need for large private groups, such as Mobius.
It wouldn't effect Open hardly at all.

I still like to venture in open a lot, unless I'm determined to get something done fast or uninterrupted, then I'll stick to solo or Mobius.

So...having a PvE Open would kill PvP, but we already have an effective PvE Open.

*looks around at the ganking complaint threads, PvP league videos, and buckyballers confessing their competition counts as PvP*

Er....yes, Darling ;)

It's worth noting that FD don't want ED to be PvE only. If players want to play the part of Imperial-hating ruthless Fed RPer, or a simple psycho, or wants to complete objectives such as barricading that involve attacking those that intent to use a facility, that's their own right...or "blaze your own trail" as I recall it. For those that don't like risk, that's why we have PG, and FD aren't happy about the idea of ever concocting magic anti-PvP rules.


There is ATR - Advanced Tactical Repsonse coming, but on reddit a guy with pvp experience said, he easily killed many of those (I think in the beta server). :( It would be soooo easy to give the clean commanders 100% protection or repayment even for cargo/data in open, to make solo/pve ppl happy and give them safety in large part of space in open, I don't understand how can years passed without implementing it...

...because what you personally want isn't necessarily correct, nor what the game is about.

It's a dangerous galaxy out there CMDR. Don't want to be Bambi? Be the Godzilla. Or alternatively remember...Bambi escaped.
 
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So...having a PvE Open would kill PvP, but we already have an effective PvE Open.

*looks around at the ganking complaint threads, PvP league videos, and buckyballers confessing their competition counts as PvP*

Er....yes, Darling ;)

It's worth noting that FD don't want ED to be PvE only. If players want to play the part of Imperial-hating ruthless Fed RPer, or a simple psycho, or wants to complete objectives such as barricading that involve attacking those that intent to use a facility, that's their own right...or "blaze your own trail" as I recall it. For those that don't like risk, that's why we have PG, and FD aren't happy about the idea of ever concocting magic anti-PvP rules.




...because what you personally want isn't necessarily correct, nor what the game is about.

It's a dangerous galaxy out there CMDR. Don't want to be Bambi? Be the Godzilla. Or alternatively remember...Bambi escaped.

I agree with you that I might be wrong, but the galaxy, especially in this game is sooo huge, basicly unimaginably huge... Wouldn't it be better to have 99% of the playerbase in the same galaxy in the same time and feel the whole universe live and breath? We have uncountable systems we could easily have pvp, no pvp, npc, and player owned systems. Everyone could find tens of thousands of places to live and play in the same open universe. I hope one that the devs will create this.
 
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