FDev please notice: the international CQC community requests improvements for this great game!

[Henoch]

Despite ties to the main game, such as its dedicated rank and credit rewards, CQC remains relatively unchanged since inception. This means missing out on CQC’s massive potential, evidenced by the success of games like Star Wars Squadrons.

The international CQC community has ideas which are presented by dedicated, cross-platform CQC players. They are offered with a focus on optimal value: perceived size of change vs potential impact, to be mindful of current development workload.

FDev, please show a sign of interest to this request and thread and we will show you our detailed ideas and proposals.

Thank you

 

[MUSKETEER]

International CQC community? Who?

 

[Henoch]

International CQC community? Who?

You, for example

 

[MUSKETEER]

You, for example

Just to be clear you don't represent the community and you don't represent me.

I already said what was needed to make cqc popular. It doesn't require any changes to cqc gameplay. People need more incentives to play it. Most of the ED players are collectors. Give them badges, decals, paintjobs for cqc achievements, increase CR earnings for playing CQC by at least x50 (main game earnings have changed, cqc ones stayed the same), reduce CQC Elite rank requirement to 2,000,000 XP (from current 3,685,000 XP). I proposed all that. It doesn't require major effort to implement for the FDevs.

CQC gameplay is excellent. Matchmaker to separate new players and veterans is in place but in order to make matchmaker work properly the game needs players. Make changes like I mentioned above and people will swarm cqc arena.

I won't support any changes that make CQC a bad game.

 

[cmdr_Giboulot]

We need better reward for playing CQC...
it's 20,000cr for 1 hour of play.
We could at least get exclusive item for main game, and i'm not including the season reward

 

[Henoch]

(Just to be clear, I do not represent the international community (have never claimed to do so) but I am part of it and in intense contact with international CQC-players.
Just to be clear, I neither represent nor speak for a Cmdr Musketeer.)

Hello FDev, the international CQC community has ideas which are presented by dedicated, cross-platform CQC players here. Please have a look!

First of all, I would like to mention that a member of the CQC discord channel has been in touch with the community team already and has passed ideas directly onto Fdev for consideration to be made for changes to CQC.

Here some of the bullet points of the international CQC community presented by dedicated, cross-platform CQC players :

• Power-Ups
  • Power-Ups offer temporary in-game buffs across all 3 game modes: weapons power, shield strength, speed, and stealth.
  • Their locations are marked by white circles on the radar, and flying through them grants the benefit.
  • They are always located in the same position on each map. They also always last for the same period of time.
    
    
    Issues
    • Power-Up locations are easily memorised, giving experienced CQC pilots a strong advantage over newer players.
    • In arenas such as ‘Ice Field’, Power-Ups are placed closely together, allowing powerful combinations (see weapons and stealth below) to be picked up quickly.
    • The above points encourage unfair gameplay practices:
    • “Looping” – flying through Power-Ups one after another to stack them up, and repeating as soon as the cool-down allows (which is tracked in the HUD – and can be further assisted by audible timed warnings in external programs such as Voice Attack).
    • “Camping” – the practice of staying by the Power-Up locations waiting to pick them up rather than engaging in the game-mode.
    • Looping and Camping are not “cheating” but offer unfair advantages especially against newer and experienced players, negatively affecting the health of CQC.
    • The benefits themselves are generally considered well balanced with the possible exception of the weapons damage increase (especially when paired with stealth).
      
      
      Suggested Changes
      • Respawn timer randomisation: changing the set time for Power-Up respawns to a range (e.g. 10 – 90 sec)
      • Location randomisation: while keeping their physical locations on the map the same, randomise which Power-Up appears per-respawn at those locations.
      • Remove Power-Up stacking: flying through a second Power-Up immediately causes the first to expire.
      • Weapons Power-Up reduction: consider reducing the 45 seconds length of this Power-Up, or its effectiveness from a 100% damage increase to a 50% increase. Taking the weapons power-up could also be changed to slow the weapons capacitor regen rate.
      • Clear & obvious weapons identifier on whoever has taken the weapons power up – glowing aura, bigger weapons graphics, red exhaust trail (similar to the player who has the flag in Capture the Flag) etc.

• Rewards
  
  Issues
  • There is little incentive for Elite Dangerous players to try out CQC. Without meaningful rewards, it is often felt as “wasted time”.
  • Many disregard the Elite Rank as an unachievable goal that “doesn’t count” and which has no interaction with the main game.
  • Players receive a nominal sum of credits for playing CQC. To achieve Elite in the CQC rank, players must accrue (on average) 22,000 kills. This equates to approximately ~17,000,000 total credits, averaging to fewer than 800Cr per kill.
  • 
    
  • Suggested Changes
    • Increase credit reward 100x. This would equate to an estimated 500,000Cr and 2,500,000Cr per hour for beginner to advanced players. Even a 200x credit increase, would amount to 5,000,000Cr per hour – still well below main game earnings.
    • Allow CQC gameplay to contribute to the capped 400 ARX that players may earn weekly through playing.
    • Upon hitting each Prestige Rank, the choice of a specialised paint job for use on the ships.
    • Introduce regular CQC Community Goals, with tier based rewards based on number of kills or wins. This could include a weekly / monthly ‘double XP event’ or an exclusive double engineered module only accessible through playing CQC.
    • Stronger interaction with the main game – CQC arena hubs in the main game (which could also be accessed through CQC matchmaking), where CQC wins from those areas have consequences for BGS, such as improving faction morale.
    • Allow players to opt for engineering material rewards in lieu of credits (albeit at a slow rate). 1 x Grade 4 / 5 material per completed match for example.
    • Allow players to customise their CQC ships, by using paint jobs, ship kits, weapons and engine colours purchased in the main game.
    • Add an unlockable main game CQC decal similar to the ones on offer for the other Elite ranks, matching the rank icon below.

• Ships
  
  Issues
  • CQC players have a small pool of ships to choose from: the Condor, Sidewinder, Eagle, and GU-97 (which was added by Frontier in a later patch after the original 3). The Sidewinder in particular is not a combat focussed ship, and is barely used.
  • Suggested Changes
  • • Add the Taipan and/or a Guardian Fighter with additional unlockable loadouts, increasing the total number of loadouts to 15 or 18 respectively.
    • Make fixes to some of the already existing ships such as the Sidewinder (increase the agility slightly and fix the Frag Cannon, which is less damaging than the stock laser).
    • Rebalance some of the existing ship module unlocks – amour booster and shield booster modules are too weak to be useful.
    • Changes to ships weaponry – possibility of regen beams to allow for further depth to team play.
    • Fix the ‘target subsystems’ options, as this would add extra depth to combat.

As I wrote above, these are some of the bullet points and have been developed exclusively from the experiences of the CQC-players and are considered to be in urgent need of improvement.

FDev, please, show us of the international CQC-community that you are watching and listening. We know that you have a lot of projects on your to-do list but please comment as to when we can look forward to CQC improvements.

 

[MUSKETEER]

Suggestions from CQC Discord guys about power ups clearly highlights that they don't grasp the concept of Arena mode. This is why they are so unsuccessful.

Of course they would like changes so they are not so much at the receiving end against the players who put time and effort to learn how to play arena mode properly. They want game to be just a boring CZ where nobody has to learn anything and just MJ of shields and DPS of weapons decide the fights without need to play tactically. It's a rubbish proposal and would completely ruin CQC gameplay and only clueless people wouldn't see it.

Drastic changes to power up system from the above suggestions would make a crappy gameplay. It's the power ups that add to the dynamics of the gameplay and spice things up. Power ups are available for everyone equally. Nobody is at disadvantage. The system is fair and power ups don't suddenly make players invincible.

Hardened veterans can play in this environment and fight over dominance of power ups which gives exciting battles. Only in situation when veteran is put in match against new players power ups use gives even further disadvantage to new players, but power ups are not to blame, low player numbers and matchmaker are.

Main issue with CQC isn't power ups. Number of players is.

In post above I mentioned what's needed to increase the numbers.

 

[Tetra Trash]

Speaking for myself, as a non-CQC player who does not represent any sort of International Confederation of Wizards or equal, the vast majority of the CQC discord suggested changes sound appealing and would make me more interested in playing. I'd be more open to trying with randomized power-ups since it would feel like I have more of a fighting change of not just hopping on and being wiped off the map. I understand there's skill in learning and stacking power-ups; it'd be nice to have the option of doing either randomized or fixed power ups depending on user preference. CQC already has a fourth elite to "collect" that doesn't really entice me to play, and adding decals, paint jobs, or similar for CQC wouldn't really increase my desire either. Increasing credits is definitely long overdue; they're shockingly low!

 

[Solsticide]

Experienced CQC pilots already have a strong advantage over newer players by the definition of being experienced. They know the maps, they know the strengths and weaknesses of each ship, can manage pips effectively etc. Noobs would still get farmed even without powerups. In all likelihood a lot of new players probably stay at 2-2-2 pips and still use a docking computer in the main game. This isn't like a single player mode where you start off with easy opponents who get stronger as you level up. It starts off at max difficulty then gets easier as you git gud.

Camping isn't really that effective a tactic. I personally love playing against campers as they're really predictable, you always know where they are and they are completely stationary so are easy to kill. You can even annoy them further by picking up the powerup they were camping for right after you kill them so they can see you do it on their death cam. As Nelson says... "Ha ha!"

Looping is only effective when no one else in the match is challenging for powerups. Good luck trying to loop in a game full of highly experienced players, which sadly doesn't seem to happen any more due to the low player count.

Like the guys above said, CQC needs incentives to play so there are more players. More players = better matchmaking. Better matchmaking = more fun for everyone.

 

[ManlyVIK]

I actually like the idea of randomized powerup spawning in the set locations.

 

[EdzUp]

Whilst I'm sure the idea is sound the issue as I see it with CQC is no bots, you join the lobby and sit there waiting for enough players to join.

If they added bots to fill the game would make it instantly playable and enjoyable for all. They could also add an arena or arenas IN the elite galaxy so players could play IN game instead of coming to the menu etc.

Also the reliance on external sites and devices needs to be brought under the game roof, ATM all they are doing is proving that the game has some seriously lacking area which need addressing which isn't a good sales point.

 

[blastard]

Suggestions from CQC Discord guys about power ups clearly highlights that they don't grasp the concept of Arena mode. This is why they are so unsuccessful.

Of course they would like changes so they are not so much at the receiving end against the players who put time and effort to learn how to play arena mode properly. They want game to be just a boring CZ where nobody has to learn anything and just MJ of shields and DPS of weapons decide the fights without need to play tactically. It's a rubbish proposal and would completely ruin CQC gameplay and only clueless people wouldn't see it.

Drastic changes to power up system from the above suggestions would make a crappy gameplay. It's the power ups that add to the dynamics of the gameplay and spice things up. Power ups are available for everyone equally. Nobody is at disadvantage. The system is fair and power ups don't suddenly make players invincible.

Hardened veterans can play in this environment and fight over dominance of power ups which gives exciting battles. Only in situation when veteran is put in match against new players power ups use gives even further disadvantage to new players, but power ups are not to blame, low player numbers and matchmaker are.

Main issue with CQC isn't power ups. Number of players is.

In post above I mentioned what's needed to increase the numbers.

Sorry - I don't agree with most of what you are saying here.
I've played CQC a lot longer than you, though in a somewhat less competetive mode yet I'm rank CQC Elite II - almost III (the only one I, and Inara, are aware of) and I'm Inara rank #1.
So what is unsuccessful in that? (ignoring the fact that most of my large number of deaths in cqc are down to you).
I ,and most of the CQC Discord guys play for fun and enjoyment and nothing else. That's what all players really want. Arena mode be damned!. It's a game not a strutting ground.
I guess you are proposing that players should run timers (or time pu's well) so they can be at the power-up's 100mS before they appear and ignore the fighting aspect of the game, instead turning it into 'who can get to every pu' chase instead - boring mate! - it's why we leave matches and queues.
Drastic changes to pu's will only make it 'crappy' for you as in the many games I've played with you - you are addicted to using them against vets and noobies alike - it's little wonder few lesser ranked players ever return.
You say the game needs more player numbers - why not do the math and figure out why there are so few players.
We've had far more fun matches ignoring pu's and instead focussing on actually flying and fighting - ever tried that?. Static pu's are the death of this game and detract from the games' essance when pu become the main focus and fighting does not.
When playing newer players I (and others) will often ignore pu's. We want new players to return so there will be a bigger player-base. Sadly, it only takes one looper to join and the game turns sour.
I will agree with your final point though (so it's not all bad). We need more players - then matchmaking can work correcty so that you get to play with the other players with k/d above 15 in your own matches, leaving us lesser mortals to have fun in a more competetive field.
I hope FD see sense are implement the changes. It'll refresh the game and level the ground. I doubt they will tho - so I guess it'll die a slow death with deminishing numbers of players - a real shame.
Class dismissed.

 

[amigacooke]

International CQC community? Who?

It's a branch of International Rescue.

 

[SushiCW]

I only dip into CQC occasionally these days but I used to play it a ton (and moderately well), so I definitely have Opinions.

1. Powerups are fine. Fixed location/duration powerups are a steady staple of arena shooters since Doom, and so are the meta-games of denial and control that revolve around them. That said, a few judicious map tweaks for powerup balance would be nice, as would tweaking duration/cooldown numbers. Some extra match options to shuffle and/or randomize powerups in various ways could be fun. And it would help new players a lot if WEP made the ship holding it glow red or otherwise be really visibly and obviously buffed. ...but IMO this isn't even close to the top of the list of issues "holding CQC back."

2. I agree that current rewards don't do CQC any favors, and seem like really low hanging fruit to increase even modestly. I'm on board with most of the ideas under this heading. (As an aside, I'd love to see dynamic conflict zones around space installations that are zoned to only allow fighters-size ships, maybe tied in with Frontline Solutions... not technically CQC but it could get some of the best bits of it into the main game).

3. Expanding the set of ships would be a Nice To Have, but each new ship makes balance that much more difficult to get right. I don't think this should be a priority.

4. IMO the most helpful addition to CQC today would be bot support. CQC is most fun with real humans that are about the same level as you, where you can give approximately as good as you get. The player pool has never been big enough to reliably sustain that ideal for all timezones, though, and it's only gotten smaller over the years. If you can find a match in reasonable time at all, it's unlikely to be satisfyingly balanced. Bots fix this, especially if you can elect to play only against bots and not have to deal with the only other players online (if there even are any) being way above/below your level.

Of course, if FD had an AI that could satisfyingly navigate CQC maps, they'd probably have implemented it (as well as Installation CZs) by now. And I can't imagine it's at all an easy task, having worked on some such things myself.

But all this presumes that FD want more people in CQC, rather than regretfully hanging on to it because they can't quite bring themselves to just get rid of it. I don't think I'd be too upset if (for example) they sunset CQC in favor of similar experiences in the main game, like being able to go do fighter battles around real installations via Frontline Solutions.

 

[MUSKETEER]

I've played CQC a lot longer than you, though in a somewhat less competetive mode yet I'm rank CQC Elite II - almost III (the only one I, and Inara, are aware of) and I'm Inara rank #1.
So what is unsuccessful in that? (ignoring the fact that most of my large number of deaths in cqc are down to you).

You are Inara rank 1 only because I removed my name from the ranking rofl

You are unsuccessful because you guys still are unable to be competitive in matches when skilled players actually join the game

Nobody uses any timers, I don't know where people like you get that idea from, lol. To you it must be like some sort of magic lol

You guys don't really want to make CQC a good game. All you do on CQC Discord is complain about better players instead trying to play better.
Guess what? CQC Arena is a PvP game. It's competitive. It's all about gaining skill to do well. You just want "play for fun" and participation medals for everyone - it's not what PvP is all about.
What you do when you can't beat another player? You ask for game changes. You want to see better players "fall" at the cost of ruining the game.
That's all it is

 

[cmdr_Giboulot]

though in a somewhat less competetive mode yet I'm rank CQC Elite II - almost III (the only one I, and Inara, are aware of) and I'm Inara rank #1.

There was a lot of player getting randomly there ranks not capped to Elite when transitionning into Odyssey, So to be fair, Frontier would have to check back progression from Odyssey release to get Elite + progression and not previously capped statistics

Else I want to know how you did 2 CQC Elite in one day of Odyssey releasing...

 

[thane]

Building membership (in any situation) has two components - recruitment and retention.

We have actually had literally thousands of players pass through CQC even though the payoff is so low.

The real problem is retention.

So changes that would even the field somewhat for newer players would be one method to getting us to the base membership so that matchmaking would work better.

Getting rid of looping is probably the key to evening the playing field. Only a small number of experienced players would miss it.

 

[Captain Rafix]

Fdev just has forgotten CQC and now even worse is splitted in two such masterminds.

 

[MUSKETEER]

Building membership (in any situation) has two components - recruitment and retention.

We have actually had literally thousands of players pass through CQC even though the payoff is so low.

The real problem is retention.

So changes that would even the field somewhat for newer players would be one method to getting us to the base membership so that matchmaking would work better.

Getting rid of looping is probably the key to evening the playing field. Only a small number of experienced players would miss it.

Changing arena with power-ups to arena without power-ups isn't going to make people stick around. Would that even be arena mode anymore?
People try CQC Arena at some point because it's there in the game menu, but CQC is somewhat detatched from the main game and rewards that's are carried over to main game from the Arena are almost nil. CQC Elite rank requirements are way to high, CR earnt are laughable, no decals, no paintjobs. Majority of Elite Dangerous players don't want to be involved in any PvP whatsoever, especially when they are not rewarded for it. Majority of Elite Dangerous players would prefer NPCs in CQC Arena rather than real players, if we go as far as saying what ED players really want.

Rewarding people for playing the arena in current PvP format is the key to increase the numbers. Breaking the arena to "even the playing field" is not. It's not going to even anything, noobs would be farmed by experienced players as always... the only evening the playing field would be between skilled veterans and not so skilled ones, since the tactical part of the arena mode would be taken away. Something like randomized power-ups wouldn't encourage any tactical play either.

 

[Steven G]

most important things to change in CQC are the rewards system (more xp, more credits, decals etc...), fix the stability & some other small few things (crap matchmaking in TDM for example).
change the game play & add new features can wait imo, even if a new map & a new ship would be nice for sure.
Pups are necessary in the game, maybe it's not good for some & it could be eventually changed a little bit, but not too much. Because without it, it could unbalanced the game more than it is now, like giving too much advantage for some ships.
cheers