Ships Fdevs: The FdL is an "Explorer" Ship Too

[Ziljan]

Let's do a little math. When the Diamondback is stripped down for a 27LY range jump, the Diamondback is no faster at getting around the bubble than any other stripped down ship with a +20LY range.

Diamondback with 27 LY jump range: 10s witch space loading screen + 16s refuel timer = 26s per jump

FdL with 20LY jump range: 10s witch space loading screen + 10s FSD cooldown = 20s per jump

Cobra with 25LY jump range: 10s witch space loading screen + 10s FSD cooldown = 20s per jump


Jumping 50 LY:

DB: 2 jumps = 52s
FdL: 3 jumps = 60s
Cobra: 2 jumps = 40s


Jumping 100 LY:

DB: 4 jumps = 104s
FdL: 5 jumps = 100s
Cobra: 4 jumps = 80s

Jumping 200 LY:
DB: 8 jumps = 208s
FdL: 10 jumps = 200s
Cobra: 8 jumps = 160s

Jumping 1,000 LY

DB: ~37 Jumps = 16 mins
FdL: ~50 Jumps = 16.6 mins
Cobra: ~40 Jumps = 13 mins

Jumping 25,000 LY (ideally with no hiccups bathroom breaks, brown dwarfs, or scans)

DB: ~7hrs
FdL: ~7hrs
Cobra:~5.5hrs

The more you run into brown dwarfs and other unscoopable stars, the worse it gets for DB because the longer scoop time overruns the FSD cooldown by a larger amount.

So now we see that the DB is no better than the FdL at exploration. Worse actually because you see about 80% of the systems in the same about of time and spend that time fuel scooping instead. The FdL is a notoriously slow ship for getting around the bubble, and FdL pilots have been crying for months for a buff to jump range. Little did they know that they are in fact "combat-explorers" with class 5 fuel scoops.

 

[WR3ND]

You make a valid point, though I'm not sure that you're presenting it in the most diplomatic of ways... but then, I guess sometimes you need to shake things up a bit to get people's attention.

Clearly they need to change the description of the FdL.

 

[Ziljan]

If it sounds inflammatory, that was not my intention. I simply wanted to point out that Jump Range is a meaningless stat if you can't back it up with a reasonable fuel scoop.

 

[who?]

If it sounds inflammatory, that was not my intention. I simply wanted to point out that Jump Range is a meaningless stat if you can't back it up with a reasonable fuel scoop.

That's only true if you're trying to cover a long distance in the shortest period possible, which isn't really the core of exploring. For reaching systems where the star systems start to thin out (between galactic arms, and far up above/down below the galactic plane) the jump range is pretty much the only thing that matters. And I'd argue travelling to hard-to-reach, rarely visited systems is really what exploring is all about.

(Not saying that I wouldn't mind seeing the DB get a better scoop, mind. When 1.3 goes live I'm almost certainly getting one).

 

[puca]

I wish people would stop being exploring police. Everyone likes to explore their own way.

 

[Zeeman]

...
Jumping 25,000 LY (ideally with no hiccups bathroom breaks, brown dwarfs, or scans)

DB: ~7hrs
FdL: ~7hrs
Cobra:~5.5hrs...

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Sorry, had to laugh. Honestly, 1000 Ly/hr is "normal" in a 32Ly jump range Asp with 5A scoop, with some actual exploring thrown in.

I'd be curious to see what the current Buckyball Sag A* record is, but I suspect it's in the 8hr+ region, and that'll be with a high jump range Asp or Anaconda...

I'll buy a paintpack for the first person that does 25k Ly in 5.5hrs in a Cobra.
Z...

 

[Ziljan]

That's only true if you're trying to cover a long distance in the shortest period possible, which isn't really the core of exploring.

Of course it is. Any time you spend scooping means you're not scanning. Not scanning means you are not exploring. If you take a trip to Sgr A*, that means that you missing out on ~5 HOURS!! worth of data because you were scooping instead of scanning. That is several million credits worth of data lost to scooping. It doesn't matter if you are in a hurry or not. It's all about the distance traveled vs time wasted scooping.

- - - Updated - - -

BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!

Sorry, had to laugh. Honestly, 1000 Ly/hr is "normal" in a 32Ly jump range Asp with 5A scoop, with some actual exploring thrown in.

I'd be curious to see what the current Buckyball Sag A* record is, but I suspect it's in the 8hr+ region, and that'll be with a high jump range Asp or Anaconda...

I'll buy a paintpack for the first person that does 25k Ly in 5.5hrs in a Cobra.
Z...

If you read the post you'll that was an idealized number. It does not take into account unscoopable stars, accidental drops, bathroom breaks, sleeping, eating, or replotting your course. It is simply the minimal time actually spent travelling and scooping if you were a machine and nothing else got in the way. As stated above, any ingame hiccups will hurt the DB more than the other ships because the 10 FSD cooldown actually helps the DB a little if you can scoop on each jump you take.

 

[who?]

Of course it is. Any time you spend scooping means you're not scanning. Not scanning means you are not exploring. If you take a trip to Sgr A*, that means that you missing out on ~5 HOURS!! worth of data because you were scooping instead of scanning. That is several million credits worth of data lost to scooping. It doesn't matter if you are in a hurry or not. It's all about the distance traveled vs time wasted scooping.

I'm not disputing the convenience of a good fuel scoop - I'm just about to come back from 9KLy out to buy a better scoop (though in fairness, having a 3C scoop on an Asp is pretty bad! )

I was just taking issue with your point that jump range is meaningless without a good scoop. With a poor scoop, you'll get there, slower. With poor jump range, you may not get there.

 

[Ziljan]

With poor jump range, you may not get there.

Apart from the extreme boundaries of the galaxy, I am not sure which places you are talking about. People have traveled across the galaxy in an Orca and a Type 9, just for giggles. If you wanted to argue that you travel in a straighter line when you have a longer jump range and therefore can make a "shorter" path between any 2 points, then you might be on to something in the more sparse regions. But that difference will be smaller the closer you are to the galactic plane or the center of the galaxy, where stars are much more densely packed.

 

[Starender]

Let's do a little math. When the Diamondback is stripped down for a 27LY range jump, the Diamondback is no faster at getting around the bubble than any other stripped down ship with a +20LY range.

Diamondback with 27 LY jump range: 10s witch space loading screen + 16s refuel timer = 26s per jump

FdL with 20LY jump range: 10s witch space loading screen + 10s FSD cooldown = 20s per jump

Cobra with 25LY jump range: 10s witch space loading screen + 10s FSD cooldown = 20s per jump


Jumping 50 LY:

DB: 2 jumps = 52s
FdL: 3 jumps = 60s
Cobra: 2 jumps = 40s


Jumping 100 LY:

DB: 4 jumps = 104s
FdL: 5 jumps = 100s
Cobra: 4 jumps = 80s

Jumping 200 LY:
DB: 8 jumps = 208s
FdL: 10 jumps = 200s
Cobra: 8 jumps = 160s

Jumping 1,000 LY

DB: ~37 Jumps = 16 mins
FdL: ~50 Jumps = 16.6 mins
Cobra: ~40 Jumps = 13 mins

Jumping 25,000 LY (ideally with no hiccups bathroom breaks, brown dwarfs, or scans)

DB: ~7hrs
FdL: ~7hrs
Cobra:~5.5hrs

The more you run into brown dwarfs and other unscoopable stars, the worse it gets for DB because the longer scoop time overruns the FSD cooldown by a larger amount.

So now we see that the DB is no better than the FdL at exploration. Worse actually because you see about 80% of the systems in the same about of time and spend that time fuel scooping instead. The FdL is a notoriously slow ship for getting around the bubble, and FdL pilots have been crying for months for a buff to jump range. Little did they know that they are in fact "combat-explorers" with class 5 fuel scoops.

yea have to agree this is stupid, and that's why every ship should have a decent amount of internals

 

[Kyokushin]

Just buy an ASP.
Ultimate king of exploration.

yea have to agree this is stupid, and that's why every ship should have a decent amount of internals

This is not stupid. He have right. I was in Sgr A* in FDL with 14.4 ly range and 5A fuel scoop. I scooped in most cases all necessary fuel in 10s cooldown time.

However, 20 ly FDL is totally stripped and harmless. There is no sense to flying in that ship, when almost fully armed ASP have 30 ly jump and is a few times cheaper.

 

[Tinman]

There is a "slight" price difference between those ships though...

 

[Kyokushin]

FDL is still worst ship for exploration, notning changed

 

[Starender]

FDL is still worst ship for exploration, notning changed

look at the first post, the FdL is not the worst exploration ship, the DB is

 

[Kyokushin]

Mate, look again. Time to SgrA* is the same, and FDL is worth about 60 mlns and DB about 600k. Compare rebuy cost of FDL and DB.

Is still DB worse?

If someone have no money will take Adder or Hauler if somebody have money he will take ASP, and if someone is uber lord of luxury he will take Anaconda for exploration.

If someone woul like to show 'yes, we can!' as me (look at my sig), he can take worst ship, or something else without sense and he will get to Sgr A* even in a potato

Maybe some other numbers from sidewinder, viper or eagle would help here... Maybe they will be worse.

 

[Ziljan]

Mate, look again. Time to SgrA* is the same...

If someone woul[d] like to show 'yes, we can!' ... he will get to Sgr A* even in a potato

Maybe some other numbers from sidewinder, viper or eagle would help here... Maybe they will be worse.

It's a toss up as to which is more annoying to take on a trip to Sgr A*. I would say the two ships are tied. It all depends on which one you like more, the "Witch Space loading screen", or the "Fuel Scooping mini-game". The Travel Times are about equal, however the FdL will have D-Scanned 25% more systems during the trip and will make 25% more money as a result. So if I had to choose, I would say that the FdL is probably the better option if you're in it for the money or the Exploration ranks.

As for the smaller ships you mentioned: The Sidewinder is a little worse to the poor scaling of Class 2 fuel scoops. The Eagle is 10% faster than the FdL, and the Viper is about 6% worse.

 

[Zeeman]

Apart from the extreme boundaries of the galaxy, I am not sure which places you are talking about. People have traveled across the galaxy in an Orca and a Type 9, just for giggles. If you wanted to argue that you travel in a straighter line when you have a longer jump range and therefore can make a "shorter" path between any 2 points, then you might be on to something in the more sparse regions. But that difference will be smaller the closer you are to the galactic plane or the center of the galaxy, where stars are much more densely packed.

Thing is, it won't happen (and I'm not even counting pee breaks/drinks/food breaks etc in my own 1000Ly/hr guestimate, that is pretty much what I get in a 32Ly jump range Asp actually trying to make distance, with minimal scanning (main stars, and only worthwhile bodies - Earthlike, water worlds etc)- unless you are not even scanning the stars of the systems you jump into, but then, what are you even doing? You'd actually need to be a machine to even come close.

I need to check the Buckyball stats, but you may not even be taking into account the fact that you will never fly in a straight line. I wish I had found the ED logging software befor eI set out to Sag A*, I'd honestly love to know how far I actually flew to get to Sag A*. It wasn't 25k Ly, that's for sure. 27k-28k, perhaps...

Effectively, what you are saying is I can drive the 1000km (as the crow flies) from City A to City B in exactly 10 hours because I will be driving at 100km/h all the way. Without taking into account bends in the road, hills, valleys etc that all add to the distance.

The reason a 35Ly jump range ship is MUCH faster compared to a 32Ly ship, is that a lot of the time, there is no star exactly 32Ly away (except in the core...) in a straight line with where you are going. I was jump between spiral 2 outermost spiral arms ont he far sid eyesterday, and most of my jumps were 20-25 Ly. If my ship had a 35Ly jump range, I would have gotten across WAY faster, because there was stars within reach of a 35Ly ship that would have given me a much more direct route. 0.1Ly can be the difference between a 32Ly jump, and a 115Ly long way round trip to the same spot.

Basically, the longer your jump range, the straighter your route to your destination, the less distance you "fly", and the less time you spend.

Honestly, though, I'd love to see someone even come close to that. For my own sake, if I could make it back from the far side of the galaxy in 15hrs, I'd happily mark my last point of interest and return next weekend, so I could spend my weeknights blowing stuff up...

Z...

 

[puca]

I think the fact that the DB and the FDL are in the same ballpark for fast travel is a little sad, though.

 

[Zeeman]

I think the fact that the DB and the FDL are in the same ballpark for fast travel is a little sad, though.

notsureifserious.jpg

7Ly is HUGE. Read my post just before yours. The calculations in the OP are with strategically placed stars at the exact right points, set it up in a test tube under lab conditions...

Z...

 

[puca]

Ok, do you volunteer to do the buckyball run in the DB? I am sure people did it already in an FDL.