FDL worth persevering with?

[eza]

Last night I organised my fleet: sold my Clipper and Asp because I'm not trading or exploring, and after ummm-ing and ahh-ing for a long time, reading many peoples' opinions on the subject; I ended up buying a Fer-de-lance instead of a Python.
Mainly because I could A-grade fit it right away, but the Python would have been a long-term project I would have to work on to fit out well.

Most opinions seemed to be that, after 1.5/2.0, the FDL buff made it one of the best combat ships.
However, I already have the two other best (imho) combat ships: the FAS and the Eagle!

The FDL feels like a big drifty Viper. It's very fast when boosting, almost as fast as a Cobra, and feels better to fly FA-off than the FAS (which when flying FA-off just feels dangerous and out of control!) but having flown it a little bit, I'm not sure whether I made the wrong choice and should have gone for the Python instead.

Here's my FDL fit: http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=70O,7RK4yG4yG7u57u50_g0_g0_g0_g0_g3wU,2-9Y7_6Q6Q9Y6Q5A,7T47gy15O12G9ok
(I'm currently using it for NPC bounty hunting to make credits for the C4 plasma accelerator and military grade armour)
It seems fine, and only needs the KW scanner switched out for a chaff launcher if I want to use it for PvP.

Any FDL flying tips?
I'll eventually want to use it in PvP against similar ships: other FDLs and FASes.
It's obviously a completely different beast to the FAS. Heavy shield tank (FDL) versus heavy armour tank (FAS). Very fast roll, good pitch, and poor yaw (FDL); versus decent turning in all axes (FAS).

How do the two fare in a 1-on-1? (My FAS fit right now: http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=70Q,7fY7fY4yG4yG3wK01Q3Qw0Wg,319i9Y88889Y6a6k,7T416y15O13q12G9qS )


TLDR: Should I have bought a Python instead of a Fer-de-lance as a ship to do both PvE and solo PvP combat?

 

[DefiledDragon]

The only complaint I have about the FDL is the hardpoints. I would rather have 2 C3 and 2 C2 than 4 C2 and 1 C4. The C4 is in about the worst place it could be for my flying style, which is essentially dogfighting. There are no decent C4 weapons, it's basically a PA or a Cannon and I don't particularly like either. If there was a C4 torp launcher that let you carry 20 torps then I would have a use for the C4 hardpoint, but there isn't.

Of course, this is all very subjective and ultimately, regardless of what anybody else says, you'll either like the ship or not.

 

[GeoFalke]

check out the Fer-de-Lance Owner's Club in the Ships of Elite subforum.

lots of experienced FdL pilots there who can help you out.

 

[captain slow]

After SCB nerf, the python lost it's trump card. Now, the majority of combat pilots would say that the FDL is better as it is far more agile and faster. Hardpoints need an overhaul across the game - but that's another thread

 

[Caspar]

I love the speed but I just can't get the fire power I was hoping for with my FDL (or I can get equivalent fire power for much less). That huge hard point feels like a complete waste.

 

[Marshall...]

They both have their advantages. FdL for pure combat and the Python for everything else. Having said that, i actually prefer my combat Python to my FdL........

 

[GJ51]

LOL

Getting the right outfitting combination is the key to building a lethal FDL

It's not obvious, but it's there.

Many just get frustrated and move on, but I'd suggest experimenting with many different load outs at a Compromised Nav beacon until you get a configuration you like.

HINT: Yes, the FDL has more than enough power now that you can load an A6 PP, but you don't have to use all of it for a lethal build.

 

[robbyp]

FDL before 2.0/1.5 was power limited, but still a potent fighter. I was unconvinced after loving my Vulture but I configured it up to kill very nicely.

Now its a beast.

 

[eza]

Thank you all for your replies!

I'm going to stick with it and use it to make credits for a Python at some point in the future. I want to try out an all-cannon FGS before the Python, though.

check out the Fer-de-Lance Owner's Club in the Ships of Elite subforum.

lots of experienced FdL pilots there who can help you out.

Good tip! I really like the look of the C3 beam + 4x frag cannon loadout in your video in that thread - frag cannons are great now they carry more ammo!

Any reason you use gimballed? It doesn't seem like you have any trouble keeping your nose pointed at your target, and wondering whether a fixed version of your loadout would be more effective...

 

[the100thmonkey]

Why not share what you think is the best loadout instead of being 'mysterious'? (edit: this is aimed at a post above, not the OP)

With regard to the FdL loadout, I'd strongly suggest you put an A5 shield on it - it's a shield tanking ship, so play to its strengths. The biweave might come up again quickly, but do you really need to be taking hull damage when you don't have that many hitpoints available? In a FAS, sure, load it up with HRPs and forget about the shield - never get more than 383Mj shield strength out of it before SCBs on a vanilla 5A shield. The FdL is a totally different proposition - the base shield strength is very high, while its armour is low. An FdL with five A0 boosters will give you 936Mj of shield - more than twice the max shield strength of the FAS.

The FdL is also very sensitive to power distribution - you need to be very busy switching between the ENG and WEP capacitor primarily, but you also need to make sure you are looking after that shield; if the shield goes down, it's a very vulnerable ship - its base hull strength is low, and while it's fast and manoeuverable, it's not as fast as a Cobra - the FAS, for example, is still able to make your life very difficult when you are running away, and the FdL is still very sensitive to weight after the buff - loading up on HRPs might not necessarily be the best course of action.

 

[sewerratuk]

I seriously considered buying one but I have a FAS and a Vulture and couldn't think of a good reason to buy another combat ship so went for a Python because it can adapt to many professions.

However, I like Fed ships a lot so I'm itching to buy an FGS but the reviews are sooooo bad it puts me off

 

[eza]

Why not share what you think is the best loadout instead of being 'mysterious'?

With regard to the FdL loadout, I'd strongly suggest you put an A5 shield on it - it's a shield tanking ship, so play to its strengths. The biweave might come up again quickly, but do you really need to be taking hull damage when you don't have that many hitpoints available? In a FAS, sure, load it up with HRPs and forget about the shield - never get more than 383Mj shield strength out of it before SCBs on a vanilla 5A shield. The FdL is a totally different proposition - the base shield strength is very high, while its armour is low. An FdL with five A0 boosters will give you 936Mj of shield - more than twice the shield strength of the FAS.

The FdL is also very sensitive to power distribution - you need to be very busy switching betweenthe ENG and WEP capacitor primarily, but you also need to make sure you are looking after that shield - if the shield goes down, it's a very vulnerable ship - its base hull strength is low, and it's fast and manoeuvewrable, but it's not as fast as a Cobra - the FAS, for example, is still able to make your life very difficult when you are running away, and the FdL is still very sensitive to weight - loading up on HRPs might not necessarily be the best course of action.

Thanks for this.
Since the release of bi-weaves I've really come to rely upon them combined with HRPs to keep me in the fight when my shield goes down, knowing it'll be back up very soon.
You're correct that it's a pure shield tanker, and SCB's increased heat hardly touches it, however with two SCBs it's only able to restore 1400MJ of that large shield (around 150%-ish?), at which point it's time to leave.
I know that mixed tanking is generally bad, but it feels nice to have that back hull HP at the moment, at least until I can afford military bulkheads.
The slight decrease in manoeuvrability is offset by able to tank more while FSD is charging.
I know I'm probably incorrect in my thinking though. Maybe I should just leave fights sooner?

Also, do you know if it's worth doing powerplay to get the prismatic shields? From what I can tell from messing around in ED Shipyard, the power demands of prismatic mean you have to compromise on weapons too much for them to be worth using.

 

[GeoFalke]

Why not share what you think is the best loadout instead of being 'mysterious'? (edit: this is aimed at a post above, not the OP)

I referred him there because as I said, there's a lot more experienced FdL pilots there who would likely be able to guide him better than I could, and it's a great resource to have, and while there's a lot of "bad" set ups for the FdL, there really isn't an arguably "best" one I've found. what works well for me might be completely useless for another. This way he gets to shop around for different opinions without my unnecessary input on his decision making process.

Thank you all for your replies!

I'm going to stick with it and use it to make credits for a Python at some point in the future. I want to try out an all-cannon FGS before the Python, though.



Good tip! I really like the look of the C3 beam + 4x frag cannon loadout in your video in that thread - frag cannons are great now they carry more ammo!

Any reason you use gimballed? It doesn't seem like you have any trouble keeping your nose pointed at your target, and wondering whether a fixed version of your loadout would be more effective...

I stated the reasoning behind using gimbaled frags in my write up for the video, but I'll reiterate it here. the damage loss on the beam is negligible compared to the fixed and it allows me to keep it firing on target longer which translates to a faster shield burn time, plus it eases fighting smaller ships like eagles.

the frags however do lose a rather significant chunk of damage when gimbaled vs fixed, but they also gain a higher rate of fire (plus they're full auto instead of semi auto), and the shot convergence is so intense it increases the effective range vs hull and at close-point blank range it absolutely decimates whatever subsystem you have targeted.

I also tested fixed frags and yes, they tear through hulls like wet tissue paper, so if you don't module snipe the fixed frags may work better for you.

 

[eza]

I referred him there because as I said, there's a lot more experienced FdL pilots there who would likely be able to guide him better than I could, and it's a great resource to have, and while there's a lot of "bad" set ups for the FdL, there really isn't an arguably "best" one I've found. what works well for me might be completely useless for another. This way he gets to shop around for different opinions without my unnecessary input on his decision making process.

I think Monkey was responding to GJ51's post, not yours.

I stated the reasoning behind using gimbaled frags in my write up for the video, but I'll reiterate it here. the damage loss on the beam is negligible compared to the fixed and it allows me to keep it firing on target longer which translates to a faster shield burn time, plus it eases fighting smaller ships like eagles.

the frags however do lose a rather significant chunk of damage when gimbaled vs fixed, but they also gain a higher rate of fire (plus they're full auto instead of semi auto), and the shot convergence is so intense it increases the effective range vs hull and at close-point blank range it absolutely decimates whatever subsystem you have targeted.

I also tested fixed frags and yes, they tear through hulls like wet tissue paper, so if you don't module snipe the fixed frags may work better for you.

Good points. Great info. It won't let me rep you again. I'm off to try gimballed beam and fixed frags! :-D

 

[Lanceor]

The FdL is the only combat ship that I haven't died in. I see it as a defensive ship - it has strong shields, enough agility to maintain a dominant position and great speed to get away when the shields go down. It runs cool enough that you can use shield cell banks without a heat sink. You have six slots for shield boosters and chaffs, and plenty of available power.

I spend a lot of time in combat zones with other cmdrs sporting Federal Corvettes, Anacondas, Pythons, Vultures and other ships. The FdL appears to have a higher survivability than other ships that I've winged up with. It is very capable of looking after itself AND rescuing others. Whenever a wingmate is in trouble, the FdL has the speed to catch up to them and shoo away the attackers, allowing the wingmate to jump out safely. On the other hand, when mobbed, the FdL can easily boost its way out of trouble.

While it doesn't have the raw firepower of some other ships, the FdL is agile enough and tanky enough to get up close and destroy powerplants. Against Imperial Cutters and other big targets, my wingmates in Federal Corvettes/Anacondas did most of the work tearing down shields, but it was the FdLs (and Vultures) who maneuvered into point blank range to take out the powerplant.

The FdL is not easy to pilot like a Vulture or FAS - you can't just point and shoot. It requires putting max pips into either engines or shields for several seconds as needed, and then switching back to max weapons. Boost turns are frequently needed. Flown well, it can keep up with Vultures and Eagles in turning battles.

The FdL's weaknesses are its inertia and armour. As you can tell, it turns reasonably quickly, but likes to keep sliding in the same direction, so you have to be careful not to back into your wingmates or asteroids. Once the FdL loses its shields, you have to go on the defensive. That doesn't necessarily mean running away, but you have to make sure you're not getting hit as the hull can't take much punishment.

The Fer de Lance is a lot of work to fly, and it has a steep learning curve. But once you get the hang of it, it is truly a very capable vessel. Do you have the patience to master it?

P.S. For more info, check out Vindicator Jones's Youtube channel. He is an FdL fanatic and produced a lot of tutorials for mastering this ship.

 

[GunnerBill]

The only complaint I have about the FDL is the hardpoints. I would rather have 2 C3 and 2 C2 than 4 C2 and 1 C4. The C4 is in about the worst place it could be for my flying style, which is essentially dogfighting. There are no decent C4 weapons, it's basically a PA or a Cannon and I don't particularly like either. If there was a C4 torp launcher that let you carry 20 torps then I would have a use for the C4 hardpoint, but there isn't.

Of course, this is all very subjective and ultimately, regardless of what anybody else says, you'll either like the ship or not.

^^^^^
This. I tried the FDL and just couldn't get the Huge hard point to work for me.
-
Sold FDL, skulked back to Vulture. Happy again.

 

[nosleepdemon]

I would maybe avoid hrps on the fdl with lightweight alloys, since its base armour is so bad that should you reach the point where hull tanking is necessary, you are going to die fast anyway. I run prismatic class 4 shields with a class 4 and 5A cell bank. That gives you loads of tankyness and you can still fit some big guns on.

 

[Shadowhaunt]

I'd definitely reccomend buying the FDL over the python, it's just more cost efficient. Worst case scenario you a-spec the FDL, work up another 100 mil or so, then trade in the FDL for a python and go ham on upgrading the python

 

[eza]

the frags however do lose a rather significant chunk of damage when gimbaled vs fixed, but they also gain a higher rate of fire (plus they're full auto instead of semi auto), and the shot convergence is so intense it increases the effective range vs hull and at close-point blank range it absolutely decimates whatever subsystem you have targeted.

I also tested fixed frags and yes, they tear through hulls like wet tissue paper, so if you don't module snipe the fixed frags may work better for you.

After testing this last night I see that you're absolutely right: I've now fit gimballed and the combination of better convergence and full auto fire makes them useful in more situations than the fixed.

The FdL is not easy to pilot like a Vulture or FAS - you can't just point and shoot. It requires putting max pips into either engines or shields for several seconds as needed, and then switching back to max weapons. Boost turns are frequently needed. Flown well, it can keep up with Vultures and Eagles in turning battles.

The FdL's weaknesses are its inertia and armour. As you can tell, turns reasonably quickly, but likes to keep sliding in the same direction, so you have to be careful not to back into your wingmates or asteroids. Once the FdL loses its shields, you have to go on the defensive. That doesn't necessarily mean running away, but you have to make sure you're not getting hit as the hull can't take much punishment.

The Fer de Lance is a lot of work to fly, and it has a steep learning curve. But once you get the hang of it, it is truly a very capable vessel. Do you have the patience to master it?

P.S. For more info, check out Vindicator Jones's Youtube channel. He is an FdL fanatic and produced a lot of tutorials for mastering this ship.

I'm starting to discover that it's not an easy ship to fly. If anything, it feels easier to fly it FA-off and boost to change direction, than it does flying FA-on. With FA-on it feels like the flight assist is constantly fighting the ship to keep it under control, but if you just let it go where it wants with FA-off then it feels more comfortable.

Though after reading what you said about the power management I've noticed a massive difference in turn rate when you have four pips in ENG.
I'm very lazy with power management with my hull-heavy FAS and Eagle, and I can't be with the FDL, which will be good for improving my combat skills...

After spending more time flying it it's starting to grow on me. It feels like it would be best suited for flying in a wing, and my FAS best for solo flying. But as I get better handling it I may end up preferring it to the FAS for solo...

I would maybe avoid hrps on the fdl with lightweight alloys, since its base armour is so bad that should you reach the point where hull tanking is necessary, you are going to die fast anyway. I run prismatic class 4 shields with a class 4 and 5A cell bank. That gives you loads of tankyness and you can still fit some big guns on.

I'm running the HRPs because I only have lightweight bulkheads: I get an extra 520 armour HP for 20 tons. Military bulkheads give me less of an armour increase for more weight.
Once I can afford military bulkheads I'll drop the size 4 HRP for another SCB.
I like your idea of using a smaller prismatic shield and larger SCB though: the shield's still stronger than the bi-weave, and you can recover 100MJ more with SCBs than with two class 4s.

^^^^^
This. I tried the FDL and just couldn't get the Huge hard point to work for me.
-
Sold FDL, skulked back to Vulture. Happy again.

Yeah, given the small selection of class 4 weapons it seems like most people use class 3s in that hardpoint.
The gimballed beam works well though, and fires constantly as long as you're leading your target.

I'd definitely reccomend buying the FDL over the python, it's just more cost efficient. Worst case scenario you a-spec the FDL, work up another 100 mil or so, then trade in the FDL for a python and go ham on upgrading the python

Heh yeah that's exactly the reasoning that made me go for the FDL over the Python in the end

 

[OgreWookie]

Interesting read, had an FDL back in the low cash availability days and could only afford an average of C spec loadout. In my first fight I got creamed by an AI Dropship at a Nav Beacon, finally killing it with 19% of my FDL remaining. I sold the ship at the next station and, as GunnerBill said, skulked back to my Vulture.
Being slightly more solvent these days it could be interesting to properly equip one and see what it can do.
When it comes down to it, the FDL is definitely one of the sexiest looking ships in the galaxy. A nice turbo intake half way along the nose would complete the look perfectly.