FDs other projects - Atmospheric Landings/Space Legs?

[NeilF]

I'm confused why some people seem to see FD working on other titles (eg: JWE) as a bad sign for ED. For me it's surely a positive thing for two main reason?

1. Financial Security - If FD want to do a big ED update and then sell it (as a new version), this would take man years of development effort and be a significant cost. Having money coming in from other channels (titles) while this is ongoing means the company is in a far better/safer place.
2. Cross title benefit - I suspect some of the development work done to the Cobra engine for Planet Coaster and JWE finds its way into ED. eg: The new lighting model? Done specifically for ED, or did that come about from work done on JWE? If we get atmospheric landings in the Q4 DLC or ED 4.0, will some of that work have come from development done for Planet Coaster or JWE? Or indeed maybe some of it is vice versa? ie: There's been some atmospheric work done over the years for ED, and some of that was applied to JWE?

And Space Legs
What if one/both of these mystery future projects FD has announced is first person, using the Cobra Engine?

Now I'm dead set against WASD in ED at the moment as I feel the core game isn't even progressing into deep enough water, let alone then adding on another game facet of first person, risking development time being taken away from the core game possibly just to bolt on more shallow point & click gameplay now for first person. BUT, if another game FD is working on has first person, NPCs, AI, combat, missions etc. ie: Enough commonality with what ED would need, such that a significant quantity of it could be "lifted" thus breaking the back of some of it?

TBH, I've only mentioned Space Legs because I just felt left out because everyone else here has posted a space legs thread this month and I haven't! I feel complete now! Plus putting "Space Legs" in the title means I'll get 20x more posts... You watch!

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I'm confused why some people seem to see FD working on other titles (eg: JWE) as a bad sign for ED. For me it's surely a positive thing for two main reason?

1. Financial Security - If FD want to do a big ED update and then sell it (as a new version), this would take man years of development effort and be a significant cost. Having money coming in from other channels (titles) while this is ongoing meansthe company is in a far better/safer place.
2. Cross title benefit - I suspect some of the development work done to the Cobra engine for Planet Coaster and JWE finds its way into ED. eg: The new lighting model? Done specifically for ED, or did that come about from work done on JWE? If we get atmospheric landings in the Q4 DLC or ED 4.0, will some of that work have come from development done for Planet Coaster or JWE? Or indeed maybe some of it is vice versa? ie: There's been some atmospheric work done over the years for ED, and some of that was applied to JWE?

And Space Legs
What if one/both of these mystery future projects FD has announced is first person, using the Cobra Engine?

Now I'm dead set against WASD in ED at the moment as I feel the core game isn't even progressing into deep enough water, let alone then adding on another game facet of first person, risking development time being taken away from the core game possibly just to bolt on more shallow point & click gameplay now for first person. BUT, if another game FD is working on has first person, NPCs, AI, combat, missions etc. ie: Enough commonality with what ED would need, such that a significant quantity of it could be "lifted" thus breaking the back of some of it?

TBH, I've only mentioned Space Legs because I just felt left out because everyone else here has posted a space legs thread this month and I haven't! I feel complete now! Plus putting "Space Legs" in the title means I'll get 20x more posts... You watch!

Glad you are feeling more complete. You maybe right. As someone that does want FPP gameplay added to ED, I certainly do not want it instead of the core gameplay updates that are coming and likely to continue to come over the next few years. And I certainly do not want it rushed out and just a boring point and click game or just wander around stations and ships for no apparant reason.

I suspect that we will find out more when they do another expo. I think they will only be doing these when they are close to revealing a new game. Also one or both of the new games could be publishing jobs and not full developments in-house.

 

[kpmop]

FPP?! You won't even get to see your legs or the funky flight suits or your avatar! Needs to be third person or at least switchable a la Skyrim...

 

[Vorxian]

Just doing a direct copy and paste from another thread, but i think it is relevant here as well:

The only problem I see is the speed and quality of content to help ED surf the surface of market. ED is quickly becoming surrounded by teams creating similar genre projects, and unfortunately for ED, they closely watch what is right, and what is not so in their market. I bet they see all the cries for atmosphere planets, see the cries for space legs, see the cries for multi crew stations and multi crew game mechanics, and build it in from the start.. IMO other projects have a LONG long way to go to catch up with ED. FDEV have the advantage of having a head start and if I'm honest some pretty nifty tech running the show.

My disappointment is anchored on the concept that FDEV are letting that lead and head start slip, giving opposition a chance to catch up. Instead of running at full speed, getting bogged down in other projects (which is great for FDEV as a company) but not so much with pace of pioneering content like we saw with Horizons. Nothing wrong with improvements to game play, but, it's additions like Horizons / planet landings that keep ED leapfrogging the competition.

I want ED to be the go to game.. but even now, when I lust for walking around planets, and searching for cute life forms to find and interact with, I'm starting to fire up No Mans Sky more and more... I can't help feel that I should be doing that in ED by now. I just simply do not want other games fulfilling desires that I could possibly be doing in ED about now had the ship been on full sail since the get go.

Time will tell. Who knows. I'm rooting for ED, and a part of my soul is always devoted to it.

o7

 

[NeilF]

Just doing a direct copy and paste from another thread, but i think it is relevant here as well:

It's interesting you highlight planetary landings as a landmark development... I recall when that was announced and it came out, and how it gave the impression ED really was going to go into impressive directions (as its Kickstarter implied). But since then I really can't think of much that has merited that view... It's like its just floundered for years and years now with so much development time being spent on such bizarre, shallow and dead end outcomes

I'm hoping Q4's mining and exploration are at long last impressive improvements. And the Q4 DLC and ED 4.0 are atmospheric landings with a wealth of visual treats/depth. As per the OP, hopefully some of this will have come from JWE development cross over...

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Rare case when I agree fully with NeilF.

Having company financially secure and have talent to pull off new gameplay we all dream about at level FD management wants is as important as producing DLCs themselves. That's good for future of ED.

Also people seem to assume that FD will drop ED in first instance, while management and CM keep telling us that numbers are great and game has never been happier.

 

[Barking_Mad]

Just doing a direct copy and paste from another thread, but i think it is relevant here as well....

The only problem I see is the speed and quality of content to help ED surf the surface of market. ED is quickly becoming surrounded by teams creating similar genre projects, and unfortunately for ED, they closely watch what is right, and what is not so in their market. I bet they see all the cries for atmosphere planets, see the cries for space legs, see the cries for multi crew stations and multi crew game mechanics, and build it in from the start.. IMO other projects have a LONG long way to go to catch up with ED. FDEV have the advantage of having a head start and if I'm honest some pretty nifty tech running the show.


My disappointment is anchored on the concept that FDEV are letting that lead and head start slip, giving opposition a chance to catch up. Instead of running at full speed, getting bogged down in other projects (which is great for FDEV as a company) but not so much with pace of pioneering content like we saw with Horizons. Nothing wrong with improvements to game play, but, it's additions like Horizons / planet landings that keep ED leapfrogging the competition.


I want ED to be the go to game.. but even now, when I lust for walking around planets, and searching for cute life forms to find and interact with, I'm starting to fire up No Mans Sky more and more... I can't help feel that I should be doing that in ED by now. I just simply do not want other games fulfilling desires that I could possibly be doing in ED about now had the ship been on full sail since the get go.


Time will tell. Who knows. I'm rooting for ED, and a part of my soul is always devoted to it.

Any team trying to do a very similar game to Elite has a very long road to travel down. Some might well do parts of Elite much better because their narrower focus will allow them to. But imo when the dust settles there will be only one game that gives you the wide range of things to do that Elite does and that will be Elite.

As for the use of JP and PC in the OP - Im sure there's lots of possible cross pollination of ideas and tech that might be of use to ED. The obvious one is the use of large number of sims that PC uses for stations etc.. But only FDev really knows about how much of that is of any use.

 

[eqinox]

1. Financial Security - If FD want to do a big ED update and then sell it (as a new version), this would take man years of development effort and be a significant cost. Having money coming in from other channels (titles) while this is ongoing means the company is in a far better/safer place.
2. Cross title benefit - I suspect some of the development work done to the Cobra engine for Planet Coaster and JWE finds its way into ED. eg: The new lighting model? Done specifically for ED, or did that come about from work done on JWE? If we get atmospheric landings in the Q4 DLC or ED 4.0, will some of that work have come from development done for Planet Coaster or JWE? Or indeed maybe some of it is vice versa? ie: There's been some atmospheric work done over the years for ED, and some of that was applied to JWE?

I doubt it's really a question of whether FD has enough money to development ED DLC. Rather, it's a question of whether FD thinks they will make enough money selling DLC to make the investment worthwhile. Also, selling ED DLC must have potential to generate as much revenue as new games to justify focusing development effort on it. Though on the other hand, ED DLC might have relatively little risk compared to completely new IP. I wonder how many ED owners would purchase a full priced(?) ED DLC with either atmospheric planets or space legs, or perhaps both?

There's probably plenty of tech in PC and JWE than can be introduced in ED aswell, atmospheric effects, volumetric clouds, base building tools, forest rendering, water effects, crowd behaviour, human and animal animation etc etc. But ED probably runs on an older version of the Cobra engine than e.g. JWE, so it might take effort to upgrade it or port the tech to ED anyway. Everything doable of course, if the investment is sound.

All conjecture of course, who knows. If I could somehow vote with my wallet to get atmospheric planets implemented, I would. But I doubt e.g. buying JWE would achieve that.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I doubt it's really a question of whether FD has enough money to development ED DLC. Rather, it's a question of whether FD thinks they will make enough money selling DLC to make the investment worthwhile. Also, selling ED DLC must have potential to generate as much revenue as new games to justify focusing development effort on it. Though on the other hand, ED DLC might have relatively little risk compared to completely new IP. I wonder how many ED owners would purchase a full priced(?) ED DLC with either atmospheric planets or space legs, or perhaps both?

There's probably plenty of tech in PC and JWE than can be introduced in ED aswell, atmospheric effects, volumetric clouds, base building tools, forest rendering, water effects, crowd behaviour, human and animal animation etc etc. But ED probably runs on an older version of the Cobra engine than e.g. JWE, so it might take effort to upgrade it or port the tech to ED anyway. Everything doable of course, if the investment is sound.

All conjecture of course, who knows. If I could somehow vote with my wallet to get atmospheric planets implemented, I would. But I doubt e.g. buying JWE would achieve that.

If they have enough money to provide a whole series of updates for free (beyond), I would think they have enough for some DLC's.

One DLC does not need to generate as much as a full game. Do you expect a Total war DLC that costs £5 to generate as much money as the main game? It all depends on how big it is and how much development has been put into it.

 

[Valorin]

Plus putting "Space Legs" in the title means I'll get 20x more posts... You watch!

No way!

 

[Stewart_]

I don't understand the mindset at all. More products will help to ensure Frontier's long term survival, especially when it comes to its business model. The profits made can be plowed back into its existing games, and future games.

Frontier, I very much doubt could solely survive on just Elite or Planet Coaster alone, since they are not subscription based, and I'd be surprised if the cosmetics pull in a significant amount of money.

I'm happy for Frontier to be making new games, as long as the Elite project team isn't suffering - and there isn't really much evidence of that happening: Seemingly slow development time isn't proof alone - we know they are working on the next few releases already, and probably some kind of paid for expansion too.

 

[NeilF]

I don't understand the mindset at all. More products will help to ensure Frontier's long term survival, especially when it comes to its business model. The profits made can be plowed back into its existing games, and future games.

Frontier, I very much doubt could solely survive on just Elite or Planet Coaster alone, since they are not subscription based, and I'd be surprised if the cosmetics pull in a significant amount of money.

I'm happy for Frontier to be making new games, as long as the Elite project team isn't suffering - and there isn't really much evidence of that happening: Seemingly slow development time isn't proof alone - we know they are working on the next few releases already, and probably some kind of paid for expansion too.

The argument contrary would be, if they have 300 bums on seats, if they realise those bums generate a greater income while working on stuff like JWE than on ED...

 

[Stewart_]

The argument contrary would be, if they have 300 bums on seats, if they realise those bums generate a greater income while working on stuff like JWE than on ED...

Counter argument: Putting more people on a project doesn't necessarily mean more productivity!

 

[NeilF]

Counter argument: Putting more people on a project doesn't necessarily mean more productivity!

No... But if you have a number of graphics artists, or terrain software experts, and there's a DLC in development for JWE and for ED, and you know the JWE one will bring in 4x the revenue... Well, where are those bums going to wiggle to (first)?

 

[Ian Skippy]

No... But if you have a number of graphics artists, or terrain software experts, and there's a DLC in development for JWE and for ED, and you know the JWE one will bring in 4x the revenue... Well, where are those bums going to wiggle to (first)?

Frontier is a company. They are going to dedicate the number of people to each product that is likely to generate the largest profits. If that means 300 on each, they hire 600 people. If that means 1 on ED and a billion on JWE, they hire a billion + one person. It is nonsense to think these project 'eat' the team of the other. If it makes financial sense to have a dude working on ED, that dude will be working there, regardless of any other project they make be working on.

 

[NeilF]

Frontier is a company. They are going to dedicate the number of people to each product that is likely to generate the largest profits. If that means 300 on each, they hire 600 people. If that means 1 on ED and a billion on JWE, they hire a billion + one person. It is nonsense to think these project 'eat' the team of the other. If it makes financial sense to have a dude working on ED, that dude will be working there, regardless of any other project they make be working on.

In black and white terms yes... But if you have a handful of developers with 5 years experience of the Cobra engine, that's not easy to replicate/hire is it... Now where do those bums earn the most bang per cheek?

I get what you're saying, but it's not as simple as just hiring staff/booting staff out as projects come and go I suspect.

 

[Cheapchips]

It would be interesting to have more details of Cobra works. They've described it in past as a looser set of tools than something like Unity. Also, that they have people writing the core graphics tech and then graphics programmers writing game specific stuff on top. Presumably stuff like planet v1 texturing system or coaster strut generation.

 

[Necronaught]

Somewhere in the world there is a game being pitched that will have the features of ED, SC, GTA and Arma all rolled into one. Plus the potential player count of Planetside.

 

[lysan]

I'm confused why some people seem to see FD working on other titles (eg: JWE) as a bad sign for ED. For me it's surely a positive thing for two main reason?

1. Financial Security - If FD want to do a big ED update and then sell it (as a new version), this would take man years of development effort and be a significant cost. Having money coming in from other channels (titles) while this is ongoing means the company is in a far better/safer place.
2. Cross title benefit - I suspect some of the development work done to the Cobra engine for Planet Coaster and JWE finds its way into ED. eg: The new lighting model? Done specifically for ED, or did that come about from work done on JWE? If we get atmospheric landings in the Q4 DLC or ED 4.0, will some of that work have come from development done for Planet Coaster or JWE? Or indeed maybe some of it is vice versa? ie: There's been some atmospheric work done over the years for ED, and some of that was applied to JWE?

And Space Legs
What if one/both of these mystery future projects FD has announced is first person, using the Cobra Engine?

Now I'm dead set against WASD in ED at the moment as I feel the core game isn't even progressing into deep enough water, let alone then adding on another game facet of first person, risking development time being taken away from the core game possibly just to bolt on more shallow point & click gameplay now for first person. BUT, if another game FD is working on has first person, NPCs, AI, combat, missions etc. ie: Enough commonality with what ED would need, such that a significant quantity of it could be "lifted" thus breaking the back of some of it?

TBH, I've only mentioned Space Legs because I just felt left out because everyone else here has posted a space legs thread this month and I haven't! I feel complete now! Plus putting "Space Legs" in the title means I'll get 20x more posts... You watch!

This is pure speculation, however implementing spacleg in ED seems more and more distant in the future, however a new game using the ED backdrop as the frame work could be an option. Elite Deadly could be a FPS WASD driven game, SP in the ED Universe, they could used all the art work, the ships and most of the assets created for ED. They would need to make a story and ofc all the work with voice acting.

If the story is good, and the mechanics for the FPS works I would buy such a game for sure.

 

[lysan]

Counter argument: Putting more people on a project doesn't necessarily mean more productivity!

My favorite argument, women and babies