Ships Federal Assault Ship - How to Counter?

Axilleas

A
I've been spending a good amount of time at the Dawn's Empire CG in the Chin'li system lately as a gun for hire against the Dawn's Empire.


The last few days I have had several encounters with other CMDRs flying hull-tanking FAS ships and they are difficult to combat. I don't have the rank to purchase one myself, so I don't have any experience flying one to know it's nuances.


For those of you experienced pvp pilots out there, what tactics can I use to better combat these ships?


At my disposal I have a VMK IV and a FDL.


The FDL is obviously the better choice to counter the FAS, however I only have paper bulkheads and I only have enough funds for 1 rebuy if I get bested, and that would equal several hours of CZ grinding to make up. I haven't lost my FDL yet since purchase, and I'm usually pretty good about high-waking out before shields are down. I've already had moderate success against these hull-tanking FAS with a 1H PA, 2 med PA and 2 med Multi setup, but if I lose concentration and get rammed by the FAS, that could be the end.

The MK IV is less potent, but much more tanky and I'm less concerned if I go Boom!


I have a few ideas, but I'd appreciate any input others might have.


Fly safe Commanders.
 
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Kayin

Kayin
FAS are a pain to fight in an FdL, even NPCs can give you trouble (i.e actually land some shots). I find 1 Beam + 4 multi's to work betterl against them. They're heavily armored so kinetic weapons are good. Unfortunately that build negatively impacts your ability to sit in a CZ.

You can likely win Jousts with an FAS if you used fixed hard hitting weapons. Railguns, PA, multicanons. Burst more damage on them and outrun them.

I'm interested in suggestions in this thread because I also have trouble with them.
 
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TomP

TomP
As mentioned above, it is the hull that presents the challenge; PA's, Rails, Cannon, Multis: these are the way to take them down.

Despite being a dedicated Imperial player, (albeit now based in Shinrarta Dezhra,) I did rank up to get an FAS. The best ship to take down an FAS is, well, you know...

The tactical advice above, on using an FdL to do the job, chimes lots of bells with me. Speed and kinetic weapons! :)
 

Scal

Scal
No one mentioned this yet, but if you are fighting hull tankers, aim for the subsystems. It's tricky when they are as agile as the FAS, but with a good aim, it's possible to completely bypass one of their main forms of defence.
 

Nerwan

Nerwan
Kayin said:
FAS are a pain to fight in an FdL, even NPCs can give you trouble (i.e actually land some shots). I find 1 Beam + 4 multi's to work betterl against them. They're heavily armored so kinetic weapons are good. Unfortunately that build negatively impacts your ability to sit in a CZ.

You can likely win Jousts with an FAS if you used fixed hard hitting weapons. Railguns, PA, multicanons. Burst more damage on them and outrun them.

I'm interested in suggestions in this thread because I also have trouble with them.
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The key to defeating an FAS with an FDL is to think about how easy it is to hit it's modules from the front when it's attempting to joust you. Think about the recent tournament. It was won by a team using all FDLs versus mostly FAS opponents.
 

Chongo

C
Scal said:
No one mentioned this yet, but if you are fighting hull tankers, aim for the subsystems. It's tricky when they are as agile as the FAS, but with a good aim, it's possible to completely bypass one of their main forms of defence.
Click to expand...


That's rarely going to work on a stealth hull tank. I fly one, I've flown against a lot of them. They're moving fast and you don't have a target lock most of the time. Eyeballing it really only works if they're running in a straight line for some reason. If you do get a subsystem lock it's going to be brief. *Edit: Just watched the pvp championship that nerwan mentioned - looks like there is an angle on FAS pp's that's consistent without a lock. Thanks!*

Honest answer, bring a wing and sync up on a single target within the other wing. 1v1 assuming the cmdr knows what he's doing, he's just going to highwake out when the hull gets low.

If you're 1v1, one good bet against many cmdrs is to fit A grade sensors and stack 6-8 torpedoes for a finishing strike when they're below 70% hull, just make sure you're relatively close so they can't outrun and wake out. It's a vengeful and expensive way to handle it, but it works, barring you're not fighting the single cmdr in the galaxy that uses point defence. If you're in your fdl I'd recommend something like this if you don't have a wing and are hellbent on finishing off a single FAS, and this if you do. All sorts of variations on the latter, really depends on what you're expecting. If you have something bigger like a vette at your disposal, A grade sensors, half turrets, half fixed, and throw some torps in your smalls for kicks.

Start winging up and practice. It's not easy and you're always going to find someone better, or with a loadout/tactic you didn't expect. Very fun in this regard. Advice will change from week to week depending on what folks are using. Wing and sync on target.
 
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BIZZNAWICH

BIZZNAWICH
Axilleas...I pilot a fully "tanked" and kitted FAS. That is, MGC armor and 2 bulkhead reinforcing packages. C5 Bi-waive shields supplemented by 2 A0 shield boosters. 3 turreted beam weapons (not gimbals) and a target tracking missile launcher-24 units.

Every dedicated internal piece of equipment is maxed except for thrusters which are A5 in preference to A6 or rather 5mil+ for A5's in preference to 10mil+ more for A6's. A5 thrusters are in fact quite sufficient for an FAS in a combat situation.

I don't have "too much" trouble (despite opinions to the contrary) with overheating; that is, nothing that can't be easily dealt with while in the midst of combat. Maneuverability and speed of the FAS (even kitted and tanked) are, IMHO.....great.


Short story time...

..... I managed to stand toe to toe with an NPC driven Anaconda (my first after kitting and tanking-up my FAS) which was likely fully kitted and "tanked" to some degree itself for about 12 minutes before needing to retire due to exhausted chaff and missiles; I only have single chaff/point defense mounted). My shields were still undamaged though very well used and my hull was (only?) down to 57% with internals sustaining approx. 6% damage avg. (down to 94%)...the Anacondas hull was at 67%. I once (and only once) fought a wing of (3) Vultures, again NPC driven, and survived....barely which, may simply have come down to individual dog fighting prowess though it's more likely due to plain dumb luck...I know not which. My FAS looked like it does after a scrap with an Anaconda. In any event, Anacondas are the only ships I've fought thus far which I haven't been able to destroy one on one, particularly when they're done right. I've downed Clippers, FDL's and even a Python or two (one on one) although, a duel with a decked out Python always seems to make my FAS appear as though a pretty decent portion of it's ass had been bitten off and was being chewed on by the Python as it went down in flames.... just like it does after an encounter with an Anaconda. NOTE: as long as my FAS can survive a duel with one of them (within certain time constraints) I'm going to keep plugging away at Anaconda's with my nasty FAS. Who knows, I just might come across the perfect set up that would allow a lone FAS to take one out. :eek:

MY POINT TO ALL THIS HAPPY CRAP:
DO NOT EXPECT to flame any ship larger or with greater "kitting" potential than what you are presently driving...because if you haven't already had it pounded into you, you will end up using your "buy back" creds.

ADVICE: (...if you decide to accept it) Be patient...get kitted and quit the "hired gun" crapola until you are.... it's really the only way to counter a "nasty" FAS without getting into the driver's seat of an Anaconda.

Bizz

PS: I could load my FAS with more bulkhead reinforcing packs, a few SBC's and more powerful weaponry sufficient to kill an Anaconda and survive the encounter but I enjoy the multi-roll functions my ship is capable at the moment; those being fighting and exploring planets....so for the present I'll just have to avoid "picking on" Anacondas too much. [big grin]

Bizz...again
 
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CMDR Corlas

CMDR Corlas
BIZZNAWICH said:
DO NOT EXPECT to flame any ship larger or with greater "kitting" potential than what you are presently driving...because if you haven't already had it pounded into you, you will end up using your "buy back" creds.
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I'm glad your FAS setup works for you, but on the off chance that any newer players might be reading this thread, I want to say that I feel this is deeply flawed advice. Your problems vs Anacondas are due to your weapon selection and underrated engine.

More on topic, and probably useless given the age of the post, but when you're only able to afford one rebuy, that's not the ship I would want to take to PvP, even though the Viper IV is at a severe disadvantage to a FAS.

Edited to clarify - I think I can maybe see where you were going with the A5 engine, you ship is probably under its listed "optimal mass", so it does make sense as a clever way to cut costs. But optimal performance is actually achieved at 50% of the "optimal mass" rating, which you are well over.
 
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Caramel Clown

Caramel Clown
DO NOT EXPECT to flame any ship larger or with greater "kitting" potential than what you are presently driving...because if you haven't already had it pounded into you, you will end up using your "buy back" creds.

ADVICE: (...if you decide to accept it) Be patient...get kitted and quit the "hired gun" crapola until you are.... it's really the only way to counter a "nasty" FAS without getting into the driver's seat of an Anaconda.
Click to expand...

Few advices I wouldn't agree with, and considering your...interesting...choice of weapons and the fact that you believe that undersized thrusters are 'ok for combat situations' - I'd say you don't really understand FAS as a combat vessel. No offence.
Also, flying Anaconda is a very quick way of getting killed by a commander in FAS. Which is completely the opposite of what people are trying to achieve in this thread.
 

blmcquig

blmcquig
Agreed. I don't mean to flame/be rude, but I think that you might want to rethink your FAS strategy. If you are loosing ANY hull against an NPC anaconda, you are doing something wrong. I usually get 5 anaconda kills every hour at my HAZRES of choice, without loosing any hull in my vulture. I've finally upgraded to a FAS over the weekend, and during the first outing I lost 20% hull. This tells me I need to re-do my outfitting and/or attack profile. The FAS is similar to the vulture, but as it can carry significantly more weaponry with less power management problems, I should be able to rake in the NPC kills.
Again, we aren't trying to bash you, but you may want to explore other outfitting options!
Cheers and fly safe!
 

Othniel

O
I fly a A rated FAS and I can beat Anacondas without ever having to use a SCB... my loadout is deadly: 2 class 3 PAs and 2 Gimballed pulse. NEVER joust.. flank them or attack them from the rear. Target the Power plant and the PAs will do all the work. since they fly slow, it is easy to shoot at their top or bottom. Eventually their belly gets exposed.. that is the sweet spot. Yesterday at a Hazres- in less than a minute- I turned a Conda into debris with 62% hull remaining by targeting the Power plant and getting well placed shots on it. 280,000credits easy- and I had a only a reddish tinge to the outermost shield ring.

The FAS is the best combat ship in the game (save the corvette). I used to fly a brittle beauty (FDL) and loved it- until I ran out of fuel once and was rammed into oblivion twice. Once your shields are down- you better run like there is no tomorrow. In the FAS, you can go toe-to toe with anything short of the capital ships and win... I can blow up NPC imperial eagles by simply running into them twice and it barely affecting my shields. This is a good way to reduce a wing of 3 without them becoming hostile before you engage. :)
 
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CMDR Corlas

CMDR Corlas
Othniel said:
I fly a A rated FAS and I can beat Anacondas without ever having to use a SCB... my loadout is deadly: 2 class 3 PAs and 2 Gimballed pulse. NEVER joust.. flank them or attack them from the rear. Target the Power plant and the PAs will do all the work. since they fly slow, it is easy to shoot at their top or bottom. Eventually their belly gets exposed.. that is the sweet spot. Yesterday at a Hazres- in less than a minute- I turned a Conda into debris with 62% hull remaining by targeting the Power plant and getting well placed shots on it. 280,000credits easy- and I had a only a reddish tinge to the outermost shield ring.

The FAS is the best combat ship in the game (save the corvette). I used to fly a brittle beauty (FDL) and loved it- until I ran out of fuel once and was rammed into oblivion twice. Once your shields are down- you better run like there is no tomorrow. In the FAS, you can go toe-to toe with anything short of the capital ships and win... I can blow up NPC imperial eagles by simply running into them twice and it barely affecting my shields. This is a good way to reduce a wing of 3 without them becoming hostile before you engage. :)
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Nice. Not saying it's better, but it's worth the experience of swapping those PA's for gimballed Frags (gimballed so they converge better), even if it's just for a single outing. You can drop a Anaconda's powerplant in literally seconds, it's glorious.
 

Othniel

O
CMDR Corlas said:
Nice. Not saying it's better, but it's worth the experience of swapping those PA's for gimballed Frags (gimballed so they converge better), even if it's just for a single outing. You can drop a Anaconda's powerplant in literally seconds, it's glorious.
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I had some installed at one time.. they are good, but first the shields. I had two medium beams to supplement them, and was pretty effective- but as you can imagine in the FAS, I had a bad habit of overheating. PAs are good for both. The two pulse lasers are useful only as finishing weapons once the powerplant is down, and for smaller ships. The PAs rock both the shields and hull- that's why I choose them over the shotty. The shotguns are good, but three bursts, reload, three bursts.. ammo is used fairly quickly fast.
There are 105 shots each PA, and since they do very good damage, its ok to miss once in a while.
 

Axilleas

A
Glad this topic has gotten more interest lately. I appreciate all the posts.

Buybacks aren't as concerning anymore. I now have added a smuggling Asp & mining Python to my fleet.

Lots of people have commented on their FAS builds, but only a few have provided tips on effectively countering a hrp stealth build (I will have to look into that exposed pp angle of attack that was previously mentioned).

All posts are welcomed though, enjoying the discussion this topic has created.
 

K-Rose

K-Rose
Annoying thing about this ship discussion & the outfitting forum is that it's all going to be irrelevant in about 5 weeks time...
With the coming Engineer changes there will be some new "meta", everything will get moved around.

We'll hopefully be able to use missiles & torpedoes for example, and then mod them further to do different things. There could be many new counters to FAS, or the FAS could continue to be king.

Personally I'm hoping my FGS can equip a couple seeker missile launchers or torpedoes and have them as the "oh cr*p!" weapons for any FAS/FDL
 

PBSF Ninja

PBSF Ninja
if you're able to get their sheilds down a couple of well timed torpedoes normally do the trick, get in nice and close ;)
turretting weapons to cover larger angles can work well on larger ships , though with the disadvantage of being outplayed by chaff and stealthing.

if its a stealth problem then pack the frag cannons like stated above ... chews stealth ships.

also if you think you can compete face to face with the fas on firepower and it has weaker shields , flip your ship with flight assist off and get reverse momentum going, make the fas have to chase you while you're facing him, get distance between you and the fas, turning flight assist off is a great tool to master in combat.
 
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