Federal Corvette - please buff jump range.

[Nitek [pl]]

Forgive me for posting it there but maybe Michael will read this.
Medium combat load for Corvette - jump range 11Ly [really bad]
Considering the density of stars in the bubble getting from Shinrarta Dezhra to sol [about 60ly] takes 10 jumps.

It makes the dream ship a local defense force. Getting to a community goal about 200ly away will take about 50+ jumps making the ship unusable at most.
Please Reconsider giving it a A7 FSD if the tonnage remains. So the large ships can be a bit better balanced.
Now - Conda has more armor, Cutter - more armor and shields leaving the Corvette a space brick.
I am sure giving it a better jump range won't unbalance things and will make the ship just a bit more useful. Boring numerous jumps are not fun, they are not affecting the gameplay for other players. It just takes time and makes you "not go" anywhere.

Considering the rank grind - this ship for many of us is an end game ship. With no jump range :]

 

[faluc]

This +1.

Or let us have a ship transfer service at least.

I really want to use the Corvette but I am allergic to small jump range after spending so much time in the Conda

 

[bazsii]

Need A7 fsd 50Ly 8 yump :S

Corvette 1880T yump range 11

Cutter 2250T (792T cargo) 16ly and boost 360

need balance

+1

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

What are you guys giving up for this?

If they added jump, what exactly would be in the negative side of the balance equation? Just slow combat speed. Everything else is a positive. Best guns, better turning than a python, good armor, good shields...

 

[DragoonKnight]

What are you guys giving up for this?

If they added jump, what exactly would be in the negative side of the balance equation? Just slow combat speed. Everything else is a positive. Best guns, better turning than a python, good armor, good shields...

Better turning than a Python? LOL. The Python has a horrible pitch rate. Even a Federal Dropship does better than a Python.
They are not asking for the jump range to rival an exploration vessel, just so its not painful to use. This is a warship that cant get to the war.
How does it serve anyone's interest to have this ship with such a bad jump range? How does it affect your game if he spends 10 minutes or an hour traveling to the system where he wants to fight?

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

Better turning than a Python? LOL. The Python has a horrible pitch rate. Even a Federal Dropship does better than a Python.
They are not asking for the jump range to rival an exploration vessel, just so its not painful to use. This is a warship that cant get to the war.
How does it serve anyone's interest to have this ship with such a bad jump range? How does it affect your game if he spends 10 minutes or an hour traveling to the system where he wants to fight?

Then why have jumps at all? why not just jump gates from anywhere to anywhere?

Oh right, gameplay balance. So that not everyone uses the same ship because there are tradeoffs.

 

[DragoonKnight]

Then why have jumps at all? why not just jump gates from anywhere to anywhere?

Oh right, gameplay balance. So that not everyone uses the same ship because there are tradeoffs.

You are just being ridiculous with your jumpgates argument and you know it.
Saying "gameplay balance" without any details is not answering the question, you are just avoiding it. A 14 or 15 LY jump range for a combat loaded ship is not unreasonable. And I dont think you have to worry about everyone using the Corvette. It will be only for the wealthy players for a long time. Why dont you tell us how it makes the game less fun or worse by not having someone do an inane amount of jumps just to get to a system?

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

If less jumps are more fun, then why do we ever need more than one jump?

IF you can't see the need for more than one jump to get anywhere, then you don't see why the corvette has a shorter jump range.

 

[Sooden]

Low jump ranges on High end, on hard to obtain ships is silly (Put mass aside for now)! You have worked though all that, struggles with the T9s short range to get cash (maybe) and spent ages in RES. Now your all set for the Fun, but have to waste time on very low jump ranges. This is a Quality of life issue...

The reason there are problems with all higher end ships (Jump range, Weapon power, ect) is... Too many people will complain that people have epic ships! Well isn't that the point? You work your way up, into a new class of ship (referring to class in the manner that is out classes all other ships below it). It would not be a case of everyone using the same ship, but people that have access to higher end ships can easy smash other ships (just have a few more ships in this higher class for choice).

FD is being too 'care bear' with the stats of 'war' ships. So that player with smaller ships can still take them on. Sadly, I think that's a good idea by FD as to many people would not be able to hack it.

Now the jump range... These bigger ships should have way bigger jump drives, and not even concerned with balancing it out with other options on the ship*1. The Jump range at this level of ship should be it own category of balancing, where the range is relative to how hard the ship is to get and not a way to balance out the weapons and armour differences of the bigger ships.

*1: This means, to balance different ships, you only look at the weapons, armour, shield, Modules, maneuverability, and the FSD is not used in this balance. After the ships are balanced, then you give FSD to the ships relative to who much they cost and how hard they are to obtain.

also, i do feel like 'Rgconner' is trolling and not really looking at the issues here.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

This is another rather pointless I WANT WIN thread, in my opinion.
.

This is a Quality of life issue...

HAH!
.
I love the buzzterm QoL. People who have little idea of what they're talking about throw it at every inconvenient issue they come across.
.
Well guess what. Games aren't all about what's convenient for the player. Convenience kills games. Inconvenience creates meaningful experiences. But this is another topic.
.
Rgconner has nailed it spot on by leveraging the 'why need more than one jump' concept into an argument. If the game was supposed to produce maximum quality of life, and low jump range is a limitation that negatively affects quality of life, then all ships should have high jump range, no? You know what other limitations negatively affect quality of life? Ammo. Guess what, rails no longer consume ammo folks. Oh, and fuel is removed because needing to manage it was too much of a hassle. Also, repairing is free, and insurance was scrapped.
.
Guess what: this isn't how it works. A game boils down to a goal behind a series of obstacles and constrained within a set of rules. Limitations are present everywhere within this and they shape the game we play. People who can't cope with power limitations of the VIII have to use the less optimal CIII for combat. People who want the extra capacity of the T9 are limited by its less than spectacular fragility. People who want to play in the behemoth of a corvette have to deal with its jump range.
.
Now, regarding balance: let's all take a moment to remember that the corvette has two huge hard points, and these will only grow more powerful as more content is released such as capital ship battles, or multi-crew, which may very likely make greater use of these things.
.
I laughed out loud when you called him a troll. Nobody is stopping anyone in this thread from using a ship that has more accommodating jump range. What's next? The T6 gets two large hard points because it's too incapable of being a dogfighter?

 

[Sooden]

then all ships should have high jump range, no?

now that would be silly , wouldn't it?

I don't know if I explained my point poorly or you just didn't read/get it. My opinion was that FSDs on high end ships (note, 'high end' ships, really the two new faction ships, the high end ship ,hope that's clear) which need ranks to obtain, should not suffer poor range (not infinite range, not one jump to anywhere, not removal of fuel, and not any of the other things you said), i hope that helps you understand my view point.

also I don't get why your post turns into an attack on my ideas, with comment on things I didn't not state. (and don't be lame and say that me thinking 'Rgconner' is trolling is and attack on their ideas. just read most of what they said. its nonsense, gear to causing unproductive arguments. E.g. Trolling)

..And using my 'This is a Quality of life issue...' as a way to justify your silly stabs at my views, show how strong your argument is.

I'm happy to converse with anyone as long as they are productive to the thread. Discuss the issues and ideas, not just shoot them down and ridicule. I wont get into a Posting war with you

 

[Psycho Romeo]

Right! I quoted your specific material, called you wrong, gave you examples why, and explained how it should work instead. Therefore I'm not productive and you're gonna refuse to reply to me. I totally understand.

Seriously? You're still on about him trolling? You're failing to see his rather straightfoward points (1.You can't get something for nothing and 2.Shortcomings have value), and calling him a nonsense spouting troll? "Rgconner is a troll and not looking into the issue" Am I seriously reading this? Exactly one post before complaining about attacking others' ideas. In what reality is it possible to have any kind of meaningful argument without a large amount of idea destroying? What are we even doing here if not to discuss the validity and merit present in each other's ideas? I'm sorry you feel shot down, but if it was a more cohesive argument maybe it wouldn't have been blown out of the sky so quickly? Oh wait, maybe I'm just really good. Yeah, let's go with that. I'm amazing.

The above is an illustration of the ridiculousness of your post regarding what you consider to be productive or trolling or silly.

I don't know if I explained my point poorly or you just didn't read/get it.

I understood your post perfectly. You feel the FSD shouldn't be a factor of the ship's capabilities. Well, that's just not how it's intended to work. Bigger != better. Why FD chose this methodology is beyond me. I don't agree with it, but that's the way it is intended, and is consistently present throughout the entire spectrum and breadth of ship balance. Such is life, and if this isn't gonna work for you, try X3. It's fantastic in this regards.

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

Glad you can be bothered to put that much effort into responding Psycho.

Me? Such a half though out idea it was not worth it,

Devs will never consder it, I hope, as you point out it is not in the design philosophy. Every ship has its strengths and weakness, and no ship is "perfect"

This mimics the real world, where different cars have different price points. If the Corvette had no weakness at all, which is what would happen if it had a long jump range, then it is incredibly underpriced.

Should be 10B CR for just the ship.

 

[Sooden]

I apologize to 'Rgconner' for my comment, it was childish of me.

your point about;

... If the Corvette had no weakness at all, which is what would happen if it had a long jump range, then ...

is why high end ships, the FSD should not be part of the balan
cing (if it was not, The Corvette may have a few more weaknesses). Take the FDS aside, and balance that class of ship on the other factors. This would mean balancing is done on the factors that mainly effect player interactions. Jumping from one system to another is not something that really effects player interaction and balance (apart from wake chasing, but its such a small factor), all it does is make game play longer in an artificial way.

just seems wrong for 'war' ships, the high end ships of military class, have such low jump range (not saying give them epic range).I Wonder if the trend is followed up to capital ships And yes, I guess ships should cost a lot more if they have longer range (maybe via module cost). but give the option for it, something to work toward, else the ship is just a Local System ship. I can see people only using the bigger ships for RES hunting, and it never leaving a system, a disappointing end for a cool ship.

This process would mean rebalancing the ship again (not using the FSD as a easy balance tool), and would be lots of effort and time, but it just and suggestion.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

Jumping from one system to another is not something that really effects player interaction and balance

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat is this lunacy!?!

I'm a VIII pilot. I fly a VIII because it's a cheap fighter that is extremely effective and waaaaaaaaaaaaay better than my friend's CIII. A bounty hunting CG opens up and it's 300ly away. Well, my friend scores much better than me in the CG because it took me two days to jump all the way over.

Extend the analogy to the corvette and the anaconda and it holds true. Without the inconvenience of short range, these kind of meaningful interactions would not occur.

I see nothing wrong with the larger war ships being slower to jump around the bubble. You send anaconda to do a long range mission run or you send a corvette to suppress a CZ. This is fine.

 

[DragoonKnight]

Glad you can be bothered to put that much effort into responding Psycho.

Me? Such a half though out idea it was not worth it,

Devs will never consder it, I hope, as you point out it is not in the design philosophy. Every ship has its strengths and weakness, and no ship is "perfect"

This mimics the real world, where different cars have different price points. If the Corvette had no weakness at all, which is what would happen if it had a long jump range, then it is incredibly underpriced.

Should be 10B CR for just the ship.

You are arguing in between extremes. All sorts of non-sense regarding jump gates and one jump go anywhere concepts. So far you have not brought forth one reasonable example of why giving a corvette an extra 2-4 LY of jump range would be such a game breaking thing. Maybe its because you think you can "win" the argument this way..........

What people are asking for is a reasonable compromise with the corvette. Nobody here is advocating for 20 or 30 LY jump range. But an 11 LY jump range is equally unreasonable. A "lightweight" corvette build that can jump 15-16 LY and a heavy armored Corvette build that can jump at 14 LY is far from OP and unreasonable. Still nowhere near as good as the conda, cutter, or python and people still have many reasons to play those ships.

and if we did have a ship moving service, then I wouldnt even be arguing in this topic. However, we do not and thus moving the corvette around is many things but fun.

 

[Psycho Romeo]

So far you have not brought forth one reasonable example of why giving a corvette an extra 2-4 LY of jump range would be such a game breaking thing.

What's 2~4ly, right? It's just 2~4ly, it's not overpowered, it will just make it more reasonable.

This wasn't accidental. It's supposed to be prohibitive. That's the point.

 

[CMDR Byr Goefin]

You are arguing in between extremes. All sorts of non-sense regarding jump gates and one jump go anywhere concepts. So far you have not brought forth one reasonable example of why giving a corvette an extra 2-4 LY of jump range would be such a game breaking thing. Maybe its because you think you can "win" the argument this way..........

What people are asking for is a reasonable compromise with the corvette. Nobody here is advocating for 20 or 30 LY jump range.

If a little more jump range makes it more fun, then shouldn't maximum jump range make it maximum fun?

No? Total removal of the jump range would not be maximum fun?

Ok then, we agree you must have a limit to have fun, because no limit is also no fun.
I find it very amusing that you try to call me out on a perfectly acceptable debate technique, that is to show the extreme to understand why the limitation is there in the first place? and then proceed to use that same technique, "20 to 30 LY Jump Range" (which no one has asked for), to justify an only 2 to 3 LY increase.



If my usage of that technique is unacceptable, then so is yours. =)

If my usage is fair game, then yours is too, and you have made my point for me:

Limitations exist because it is a point of balance in the game design. Without balance, the game is no fun, as we already determined by agreeing infinite jump range is not a fun solution either.

So why any limit at all?
There is a saying in the IT business: Fast, cheap, or reliable. Pick 2.

The same theory applies here: Firepower, jump range, or maneuverability, pick two. (Actually there seems to be 5 or more categories, like cargo space and shield strength, but I am building a analogy here and they break if you take them to far)

So if you want LY range, you need to give something else up to get it. What do you want that to be?

 

[Kyokushin]

I agree about Vette jump range buff.
Ship have huge time sink effect. In this ship you jumping over and over instead of playing. As in FDL case, also vette need a few ly jump range extension, arguments are the same.

So if you want LY range, you need to give something else up to get it. What do you want that to be?

No, he do not need to give something or choose between something. This is a suggestion of correction a ship design.
In both cases an additional few ly of jump will not change a balance.
Will it make vette explorer? no
will it make vette trader? no
will it change combat capabilities? no
will it improve gameplay experience? yes.

nothing wrong here.

 

[Sooden]

the first 5 mins of this video point out some of the silly short comings of a high end war ship.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt5M47Yl6J0
Just thought it was worth posting the link as it seems relative to this thread (this is not my video).