Feedback Cascade Rails - not effective???

[GunnerBill]

I did some testing Class 2 Feedback Rail gun against a 7A shield being SCB'd with Dual 7A SCB's.

No noticeable effect on regeneration or damage on SCB.

Several tests.

Did Feedback Cascade special effect on rails get nerfed? :S

 

[NascentChemist]

I use them against NPC's all the time, and they were used against me just a couple days ago.

What kind of situation was this?

 

[GunnerBill]

I use them against NPC's all the time, and they were used against be just a couple days ago.

What kind of situation was this?

My wingmans Corvette was just sitting there and after bumping his shield down a ring he activated his SCB and I shot him with the rail as soon as I saw the SCB activating in the shield pattern.

And then for good measure kept pounding away as fast as they can fire.

I've since read there is a small window but I was pretty sure I hit as soon as I saw the pulsing on the shield.

For ref: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/247170-Feedback-Cascade-Railguns-The-Facts

 

[NascentChemist]

Hmm. Did you see the icon indicating that the feedback cascade was happening? That (-) symbol?

 

[GG7]

G5 Engineered Advanced Plasmas are a better option, if you have taken the time to get them via PowerPlay. Mine are class 3s but I am pretty sure they came in 2s as well. (Denton Patreus).

But if you are regularly up against 7A shields and Class 7A SCBs, you would be wise to run a Corvette with Dual 4A Beam Lasers running the efficient weapon mod. You can fire those forever without draining you PD.

Even all that shield power will not be able to stand up against two of those after 1-2 minutes of continuous fire.

 

[sb413197]

My wingmans Corvette was just sitting there and after bumping his shield down a ring he activated his SCB and I shot him with the rail as soon as I saw the SCB activating in the shield pattern.

And then for good measure kept pounding away as fast as they can fire.

I've since read there is a small window but I was pretty sure I hit as soon as I saw the pulsing on the shield.

For ref: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/247170-Feedback-Cascade-Railguns-The-Facts

I *think* you may need to hit them BEFORE you see the SCB graphic (I've never beeen successful if I wait until I see the graphic), but I could be wrong, hopefully some have tested this. It takes two hits from a size2 cascade rail to 90 percent nerf the SCB if I am remembering right as well, although they stack so you can keep SCBs from working if you keep hitting them with a single size2 rail (or two size1s for the anaconda and vette owners...)

 

[GunnerBill]

Hmm. Did you see the icon indicating that the feedback cascade was happening? That (-) symbol?

Icon???? I guess not then

G5 Engineered Advanced Plasmas are a better option, if you have taken the time to get them via PowerPlay. Mine are class 3s but I am pretty sure they came in 2s as well. (Denton Patreus).

But if you are regularly up against 7A shields and Class 7A SCBs, you would be wise to run a Corvette with Dual 4A Beam Lasers running the efficient weapon mod. You can fire those forever without draining you PD.

Even all that shield power will not be able to stand up against two of those after 1-2 minutes of continuous fire.

I've got one of those, running fixed Eff. lasers all round, that and a reasonable PD roll it's great.

In this instance I'm testing out various load outs on my recently purchased Cutter. All Eff. Beam lasers apart from the two class 2's on the chin where I am testing out Rails. Pretty easy to hit with the rails so I'd like to see if I can master this Cascade effect.

I *think* you may need to hit them BEFORE you see the SCB graphic (I've never beeen successful if I wait until I see the graphic), but I could be wrong, hopefully some have tested this. It takes two hits from a size2 cascade rail to 90 percent nerf the SCB if I am remembering right as well, although they stack so you can keep SCBs from working if you keep hitting them with a single size2 rail (or two size1s for the anaconda and vette owners...)

BEFORE you see the graphic?!!! So a wild guess then or am I missing something else?


Thanks for all the input guys* lashings of +1's and Ginger Beer


* note, in deference to other threads I am using the term "guys" in a strictly generic, multi-purpose manner

 

[Starwolfe]

Cascade is based upon the damage to the shield from the rails. Long Range I gather is then more useful to keep the damage at range so you don't need to be point-blank.

A rule of thumb I learned was about 6x hits with smalls, or about 4x with mediums to negate *most* of the SCB.

Needs to be hit at some point after spin-up to stack the effect in time, but I get the impression its a timed debuff - if it wears off before the healing it is of no use.

So you need to hit it multiple times to get the effective rate, and quick enough to make it count.

 

[Morbad]

Feedback cascade worked fine the last time I used it, which was a few days ago.

You have to land the hits in the 5 second (or less with some mods) SCB spool up and the magnitude of the effect is roughly proportional to the damage done by the rails. Two C2 rail hits should be most of the way to maximum effect on an A7 SCB.

 

[Bryan K]

Never tried class-2 feedback rails before, but the dual class-1s on my Vette seem to be working fine. I use them on SCB-spamming NPC Pythons all the time.

 

[NascentChemist]

If you hit at the right time, you should see the reverb cascade icon under your target's representation on your HUD.

 

[sb413197]

Icon???? I guess not then



I've got one of those, running fixed Eff. lasers all round, that and a reasonable PD roll it's great.

In this instance I'm testing out various load outs on my recently purchased Cutter. All Eff. Beam lasers apart from the two class 2's on the chin where I am testing out Rails. Pretty easy to hit with the rails so I'd like to see if I can master this Cascade effect.



BEFORE you see the graphic?!!! So a wild guess then or am I missing something else?


Thanks for all the input guys* lashings of +1's and Ginger Beer


* note, in deference to other threads I am using the term "guys" in a strictly generic, multi-purpose manner

That's how I use them, yes....prevention. When the shields weaken below the second ring I find both players and NPCs tend to fire off their SCBs so I start hitting them around that point to prevent the SCB effect.

 

[GunnerBill]

Once again thanks for the 'feedback' .

I'll have another go tonight and change my tactics 'til I see the desired effect.

Once question though - if you a ship multiple times with a C2 Rail you'd expect to see shield degeneration anyway or rather if they were using SCB the shields would not come back as far just because of the damage?

Should the feedback effect on shield regen be more than the damage alone? Of course you should also see SCB module damage too.

 

[Cliffson]

I've started using these recently and it seems like to me damage is irrelevant compared to number of hits as i notice no appreciable difference between 2 smalls (sturdy) and 2 medium (long range).

Providing both hit in the spin up time (initial slow pulsing shield animation) nearly all regen stops.

If i only score one hit in this time then the effect is much reduced.

 

[Rubbernuke]

The bigger the SCB the more hits you need to nullify it. Its not a 1 hit = SCB dead thing.

 

[Aashenfox]

I have several vids on my youtube channel showing the effectiveness of these. Definitely still working.

GG7, I have to point out mate, that there is no weapon of any size that can match the DPS of even a small railgun with feedback when used on a shield cell deploying enemy. The effective DPS puts even double shot flak launchers to shame, due to the potential to reduce the shield cell effectiveness to zero.

I have noticed that the first hit doesn't always apply the effect, I assume there is a small random chance, and if I had to guess what that chance was, I'd say 55%, as it defeinitely seems to work first time most of the time, but not all the time. 2 hits seems to almost guarantee effectiveness, but sometimes three seem to be needed.

Here are a couple of vids which show feedback working... Particularly in the courier vid (first one), you can see what's happening several times cos the fight lasted so long, you can see approximately 4 or 5 times, my feedback perfectly negated the shield cell (enemy gained 0 shield regen from them), while in others one hit or even two wasn't enough to stop him getting 'some' value back. One of the reasons this fight went on so long is because I failed to catch ONE of the shield cells that he used and that set me back about 4 minutes. Note also that I 'believe' that the effectiveness is affected by range. So if you don't have long range and you are shooting from more than 1.6km I think the drop off is, then that will affect either its effectiveness or it's 'effect chance'. I can't prove any of this, just a gut feeling, I could be wrong. The engineering in these vids is lightweight G5 on the courier railgun and long range G1 on the Python.

Without the feedback effect, and due to the lightweight weapons' lack of DPS, I would not be able to carry enough ammo to kill a dangerous NPC corvette in this ship without the feedback, as it was, he only got one free cell off and it was close on the ammo, very close.

[video=youtube;RWqi5FRcaR8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RWqi5FRcaR8[/video]

[video=youtube;Yf_zmehepJ4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yf_zmehepJ4[/video]

 

[Pendergast]

My wingmans Corvette was just sitting there and after bumping his shield down a ring he activated his SCB and I shot him with the rail as soon as I saw the SCB activating in the shield pattern.

And then for good measure kept pounding away as fast as they can fire.

I've since read there is a small window but I was pretty sure I hit as soon as I saw the pulsing on the shield.

For ref: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/247170-Feedback-Cascade-Railguns-The-Facts

Don't think you can damage a wingman??

 

[Cmdr Ultra]

The more hits you can land in the time window and the size and amount of Railguns used with Feedback Cascade definitely effects the recharge rates.

 

[Truesilver]

The following vid which I put in its own thread in the PvP forum last month shows feedback cascade working as normal in the final phase of Beta 3.0:

[video=youtube_share;grLcfVvacCU]https://youtu.be/grLcfVvacCU[/video]

Don't think you can damage a wingman??

Winging has no effect at all upon damage.

 

[Cmdr Eran Mintor]

G5 Engineered Advanced Plasmas are a better option, if you have taken the time to get them via PowerPlay. Mine are class 3s but I am pretty sure they came in 2s as well. (Denton Patreus).

But if you are regularly up against 7A shields and Class 7A SCBs, you would be wise to run a Corvette with Dual 4A Beam Lasers running the efficient weapon mod. You can fire those forever without draining you PD.

Even all that shield power will not be able to stand up against two of those after 1-2 minutes of continuous fire.

They don't. Class 3 only.

Also are we sure it's proportional to damage? I don't have hard data but feel feedback hammers are pretty effective, and that's less damage usually.