[Feedback] Exploration is not for explorers.

[CitizenKai]

Hi, pilots. Would you mind if I spilled a couple of drops of my tears on exploration and explorers.

Many of us came into the ED because we were waiting for some of the mysteries in this universe. Now how many explorers? Thousands? Yes, I was with Formidine Rifters, I tried to look for something strange, interesting and unusual in the galaxy. I flew with CoR and doing all this. But, over time I, like many explorers, I realized that in this galaxy, there are practically no secrets that you can find. Billions of empty systems and planets. We continue to seek-to seek-to seek and nothing to find except a couple of beautiful kinds and already boring monotonous nebulae.

Secrets? Yes, they seem to be there. We found the unknown ships, found the Zurara, found the abandoned stations, and the ruins. But this is the main problem all these "secrets" - it were added to the universe with any of the updates. These "secrets" are created specifically for a certain group of players, for example, Canonn or CoR. They appear only when FDev want it, and not when it find explorers. You are talking about Raxxla and another mysteries. But it really exists? Now I'm sure not. You are talking about mysteries, which also does not exist until FDev do not want to.

Explorers who spent months or even years to search for something unusual still deprived of the opportunity to find it. So why is this happening? It should look like? ED is a game only for privileged groups? It should not be so. We are explorers and we should also have content.

 

[goemon]

Canonn or CoR. They appear only when FDev want it, and not when it find explorers.

that's not the case. the first UA-freefloaters, jaques, alien ships, the brain trees, many barnacles, many ruins etc. pp. have been found first by explorers by pure chance, not by those groups actvely searching for it. the chance is just very, very small for each individual explorer as for the "map" being mindblowing large. generation ships are found by people exploring the bubble, the last rare was found almost two years into the game by chance, despite of an active group looking for it ...

that said, while i'm spendig large parts of my game as an explorer, i have never thought of it as finding secrets, i'm more into exploring and charting astronomical wonders - but each his own.

 

[CitizenKai]

that's not the case. the first UA-freefloaters, jaques, alien ships, the brain trees, many barnacles, many ruins etc. pp. have been found first by explorers by pure chance, not by those groups actvely searching for it. the chance is just very, very small for each individual explorer as for the "map" being mindblowing large. generation ships are found by people exploring the bubble, the last rare was found almost two years into the game by chance, despite of an active group looking for it ...

that said, while i'm spendig large parts of my game as an explorer, i have never thought of it as finding secrets, i'm more into exploring and charting astronomical wonders - but each his own.

I meant a slightly different thing. Things find when FDev want it and exactly where they want it. Thus, this creates an advantage for certain groups. This should not happen.

 

[Cdr Voorheez]

I'm with you on this one G. I explore for 5 main reasons and have been exploring for these 5 main reasons since 2015:

1. It's a flipping big Galaxy with lots to see
2. It's nice to put your name on some far flung thing of beauty knowing noone else will actually ever see it
3. It gets you out of the Politics both in game and on certain forums here
4. It's got a great community (See Distant World's 3302 and other exploration events planned after that)
5. It's my choice over pew-poo and trading.

I also think that by it's egalitarian nature and it's open armed friendly community that no particular player group have ever benefited from exploration, ever. I'm a member of Canonn and their sole modus operandi has always been to explore the galaxy and the strangeness therein and share that knowledge with the community. They are the opposite of exclusive. If you site Gnosis as an exclusive example then its an incorrect example, that ship is open to Canonn members and all of its allies, who can be anyone. Plus 10k members contributing to a CG over 48hrs is testament to their community support. They made it happen.

As for explorers being deprived of finding anything I'm inclined to disagree after over 18000 systems visited, scanned and explored.

 

[goemon]

Things find when FDev want it and exactly where they want it.

i doubt, that "where" is even that fixed in a procedurally generated galaxy. i'm pretty sure that barnacles, brain trees etc. are spawned, not hand-placed.

as for "when" - this is simply wrong. hit up the story of finding jaques. Michael Brookes on record that it was found much faster than expected, and it was found by an explorer, not by some group looking for it. same goes for Unknown Artifacts free-floaters - found later than expected by FDEV, and found by an explorer by pure chance. etc. pp.

the groups you are naming - canonn especially - have been always clear about that. they investigate reportings of explorers and try to work out rules for spawns/"do science". they also try to brute force by surveying regions, and they analyse videos etc. they are sometimes successfull with that, sometimes they aren't.

currently there is something in the game (commodity mark description) called "Unknown Link". it might be that groups are succesfull with finding it by brute force. but probably somebody will report a random finding of it, wherever, and the hunt for working out what it is and how you can get more of it etc. will start.

 

[Cdr Voorheez]

I'm also thinking that by the very title of this thread that a very large dose of click baiting has been applied by the OP. I may be wrong but I've been here long enough to see CB when it's sat in front of me.
My opinion of course.

 

[CitizenKai]

i doubt, that "where" is even that fixed in a procedurally generated galaxy. i'm pretty sure that barnacles, brain trees etc. are spawned, not hand-placed.

as for "when" - this is simply wrong. hit up the story of finding jaques. Michael Brookes on record that it was found much faster than expected, and it was found by an explorer, not by some group looking for it. same goes for Unknown Artifacts free-floaters - found later than expected by FDEV, and found by an explorer by pure chance. etc. pp.

I completely disagree with this. Yes, once, maybe a year or more ago, we saw random things. But with everything going on lately, it happens not random and not for random explorers.
Remember The Rift. There could be someone to find something by chance? No, it was added in the latest updates, in a certain place for a certain group.
At the moment, random explorers ignored for a long time.

Not that I was expecting from the game.

 

[goemon]

I completely disagree with this. Yes, once, maybe a year or more ago, we saw random things.

again, please check yor facts. brain trees have been found first 4 months ago - by an explorer. the first alien hyperdiction wasn't by somebody of a group. i'm not really sure what you are talking about. if you are talking especially about the formidine rift, this does not extend to everything exploration.

if it isn't about "something like the brain trees isn't found once a month by me."

 

[CitizenKai]

again, please check yor facts. brain trees have been found first 4 months ago - by an explorer. the first alien hyperdiction wasn't by somebody of a group. i'm not really sure what you are talking about. if you are talking especially about the formidine rift, this does not extend to everything exploration.

if it isn't about "something like the brain trees isn't found once a month by me."

And now remember where it were found.
This was not a random place and not for the random explorers. This was established in a certain place, it was to find certain groups of players.

 

[goemon]

And now remember where it were found.
This was not a random place and not for the random explorers. This was established in a certain place, it was to find certain groups of players.

can you back that with any source? because the places look very random for me, and the find was a random one as far as i know.

here is the original "i found jaques"-post: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/4qctl8/i_have_found_jaques_station/ ... "I'm sure FDev isn't happy with me today and I know some players that were working on the Jaques story aren't pleased either. "

here is the discovery of barnacles in the witchhead nebula: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...6-The-Canonn?p=4095933&viewfull=1#post4095933 - "This was discovered after approximately 3 days of exploration. "

and here is the original "i found brain trees"-post: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...found_this_while_exploring_for_guardian_ruin/

...

maybe i don't understand what you are aiming for, but if you like to explore and search for stuff, start hunting for "unknown links" where ever, now? or do an exploration trip, scout planets, dip into USS? you dont have to be part of any group for this, and you might be as successfull at the statue of liberty nebula as in the pleiades.

 

[Unbreakable]

there are still un-discovered generation ships and I believe there is an alien ruins site still undiscovered as well? people are using a bug to complete the 100m mission because we have not yet found the 4th site. so get out there and start hunting!!

 

[CitizenKai]

there are still un-discovered generation ships and I believe there is an alien ruins site still undiscovered as well? people are using a bug to complete the 100m mission because we have not yet found the 4th site. so get out there and start hunting!!

And that's what I'm talking about. It's not random places, it was installed in a certain place for certain groups.
It is not for explorers. Let's call it a hunt for decorations.

 

[CitizenKai]

can you back that with any source? because the places look very random for me, and the find was a random one as far as i know.

here is the original "i found jaques"-post: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/4qctl8/i_have_found_jaques_station/ ... "I'm sure FDev isn't happy with me today and I know some players that were working on the Jaques story aren't pleased either. "

here is the discovery of barnacles in the witchhead nebula: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...6-The-Canonn?p=4095933&viewfull=1#post4095933 - "This was discovered after approximately 3 days of exploration. "

and here is the original "i found brain trees"-post: https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDange...found_this_while_exploring_for_guardian_ruin/

...

maybe i don't understand what you are aiming for, but if you like to explore and search for stuff, start hunting for "unknown links" where ever, now? or do an exploration trip, scout planets, dip into USS? you dont have to be part of any group for this, and you might be as successfull at the statue of liberty nebula as in the pleiades.

Unfortunately, members of certain groups now find new content. As I said before, it was different than it is now. A year ago we could really find something new somewhere in space. But this is NOT happening. All the new content is concentrated in a certain place for certain players. Frankly, I'm tired of repeating it.

Let's look at the brain trees. This was found near the ruins. So this part of the content of the ruins. Not for explorers, but for tourists who arrive to the ruins. It was intentionally installed in these places.

What I see now. FDev provide content exclusively for certain groups. Thus, we see the monopoly in exploration and finding new content. No, of course they don't provide the exact coordinates, but do everything possible to ensure that the new content will only be found by interesting to their group and pilots.

 

[goemon]

Let's look at the brain trees. This was found near the ruins. So this part of the content of the ruins. Not for explorers, but for tourists who arrive to the ruins. It was intentionally installed in these places.

you do know, where ruins and brain trees have been found since than?

the furthest location from sol is closer to coloia than to sol ... and was found by an explorer, on an exploration trip. here is the original link:

Actually i found in the SYSTEM SKAUDAI AM-B D14-138 three old Ruins at the Moon AB 7 A.
I posting some pictures at the German Forum

Here ist The Link:
https://www.elitedangerous.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=14454&p=310521#p310521

I forget to tell, that i fly with the german PAX-Expedition.
here is the link for it:
https://www.elitedangerous.de/forum/viewtopic.php?f=111&t=13931

i suggest that you back your claims with sources.

ruins and brain trees have been found randomly, by explorers, on exploration trips.

exampel: skaudai sector, where nobody expected any ruins. on an exploration trip. part of a group exploration, but not searching for ruins.

are you claiming, that those ruins where handplaced by FDEV shortly before on that moon, so the expedition would find it -?

 

[DarkSeraphim88]

Let me tell you a story. Once upon a time, when the theme with the Guardian ruins was still popular, me and my friend searched for these ruins. There were many theories about how we should look for this place. In the end, we determined the planet and the approximate location of the ruins. Arriving at the site, we explored a large area. But everything was in vain. I was very surprised when one of the scanned planets in this system, exactly the one on which the ruins were supposed to be, suddenly disappeared, and it had to be scanned again. Literally the very next day, someone from the Cannon Research Group found on this planet the ruins in the same area that we investigated.

 

[Madrax573]

There is an abundance of tinfoil in this thread. Almost enough that it probably should be moved to the whine forums, erm I mean Dangerous Discussions!

 

[Cdr Voorheez]

And on that very perceptive note I will buy you a virtual pint CMDR and shake your hand.
Positivity is in short supply these days it appears.

 

[Rustnsawdust]

Positivity is in short supply these days it appears.

I honestly believe that positivity is plentiful. It's simply that the cry-babies are more vocal. I have often been moved to post a 'cry-baby' response to every 'white knight' post, but it seems childish. Unfortunately, the cry-babies don't appear to share the same self-awareness (or adult restraint).

 

[Mengy]

I think I get what Airykai is saying here, and if so then I tend to agree. I think he's saying that there needs to be more procedurally placed stuff out all over deep space for explorers to hunt for, and that the hand placed story stuff like Gen ships, Alien ruins, the FR bases and such, aren't meant for general explorers to find, but rather people who are purposefully hunting those things.

It's exactly what my suggestion thread here is trying to accomplish:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...loration-Development-a-Galaxy-of-Possibilitie

Which is this: use the power of the Stellar Forge and procedural generation to fill the galaxy with content for explorers everywhere to interact with, coupled with the mechanics to do so. For example, a pilot out in the Abyssal Plains won't find anything like Alien ruins or Generation ships, because Frontier isn't putting them there. The only thing an explorer can do out there is look for interesting system layouts or planets and go sightseeing, there isn't anything else to find or do. We have a huge galaxy to explore but nothing to do in it, nothing to find unless you are in a specific place where Frontier has put something. Honestly geysers were a great step towards this but Frontier only took a half step, they implemented content but without mechanics to utilize it nor any purpose for said content. If we could scan geyser sites for data to return with and sell, or if you could farm them for unique and valuable materials that you can't get from a plethora of other places, then they suddenly become more than just sightseeing fodder. Now add more procedurally placed things similar to geysers, say geological sites, meteor impact sites, core sample locations, caves, rogue planets, comets, exploded worlds, plus new mechanics to utilize those things and reward finding them, and then you'd give explorers more than just interesting system layouts and planets to explore for.

Maybe I misunderstood Airykai though.

 

[Galactic Fork]

I think I get what Airykai is saying here, and if so then I tend to agree. I think he's saying that there needs to be more procedurally placed stuff out all over deep space for explorers to hunt for, and that the hand placed story stuff like Gen ships, Alien ruins, the FR bases and such, aren't meant for general explorers to find, but rather people who are purposefully hunting those things.

It's exactly what my suggestion thread here is trying to accomplish:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...loration-Development-a-Galaxy-of-Possibilitie

Which is this: use the power of the Stellar Forge and procedural generation to fill the galaxy with content for explorers everywhere to interact with, coupled with the mechanics to do so. For example, a pilot out in the Abyssal Plains won't find anything like Alien ruins or Generation ships, because Frontier isn't putting them there. The only thing an explorer can do out there is look for interesting system layouts or planets and go sightseeing, there isn't anything else to find or do. We have a huge galaxy to explore but nothing to do in it, nothing to find unless you are in a specific place where Frontier has put something. Honestly geysers were a great step towards this but Frontier only took a half step, they implemented content but without mechanics to utilize it nor any purpose for said content. If we could scan geyser sites for data to return with and sell, or if you could farm them for unique and valuable materials that you can't get from a plethora of other places, then they suddenly become more than just sightseeing fodder. Now add more procedurally placed things similar to geysers, say geological sites, meteor impact sites, core sample locations, caves, rogue planets, comets, exploded worlds, plus new mechanics to utilize those things and reward finding them, and then you'd give explorers more than just interesting system layouts and planets to explore for.

Maybe I misunderstood Airykai though.

That's how I interpreted it to, though I think they were talking about more than "procedurally placed things similar to geysers, say geological sites, meteor impact sites, core sample locations, caves, rogue planets, comets, [and] exploded worlds" which should all be in the game anyway independent of "mysteries". They brought up the abandoned bases and the abandoned megaship, and other assorted things which are hand placed for particular groups but not stuff to find like that for random explorers out in the black.
I agree, but it does pose an interesting logistics issue. The chance on stumbling onto an abandoned base or megaship or anything truly unique out in the dark depths of space without clues, is fairly impossible.

What would be nice is a kind of random until existing situation. OK, an example for a kind of "event" discovery. A failing megaship 45000 LY from sol. It was off on an exploration mission in the region and is failing. Gamewise, it's not hand placed in one particular system, but a region of maybe 3000 LY. When somebody enters that region there's a chance it'll be in the system, kinda like a USS. When you arrive, there'll be a comms message from the ship "Finally! Someone's here! Please help us!" At this point, the ship becomes persistent for all time after. So if you have passenger space you can dock and begin carrying people back to civilization, and alert others to help in the evacuation.

This method could work for things like random secret bases, or any one off mystery things without placing them in one specific system 22000 LY from sol and hope somebody one day finds it. Stuff like giant abandoned alien bases, an ancient city, or some weird space anomaly. Assign them to a region as a random event. When it's triggered it's then persistent there for others to see. This way you get people actually able to find these things by stumbling upon them.