[Feedback from Newbie] Starting zone

[CemXen]

Hello,

I bought the game a month ago and shelve it after boucing around everywhere and not finding any way to make credit (all missions were out of range)
I saw the next update was bringing new player starting zone so I waited.

Here we are now ! Let's talk about my experience.

*while you are reading, note that, as a new player, i do not know the mechanics of the game nor do I have to watch 50 hours of youtube let's play. There is a beginner zone and individual tutorials, everything will be explained there !

1. UI : i received a message. How the hell do I read it ?? Can't use the mouse to click on it. I had to look into key bidding for 20 minutes to figure it out. While I was there i reconfigured a bunch of keys.
Improvments :
(similar to the first take-off checklist) show the new player how to navigate the UI
space for selecting is not intuitive
why can't we use the mouse when docked, there is no gameplay reason to shake your ship around when docked (is there ??)
improve the default keymapping (mouse controlling both 'rudder' and 'ailerons' is ****, it's the reason why i was boucing around everywhere a month ago)

2. Missions : all around better than before
Improvment :
maybe place courier or delivery missions as 'recommended' ?
if there is only one reward, why the reward selection screen ? (clicking for no reason)
Question :
If i already have medicine in my cargo, why can't I directly complete the mission if offered ? I had to sell the cargo and another round trip. Why ??

3. Undocking/autopilot : great ! the 7 second rule is known by all experienced pilots but as a beginner, last month, i was looping like crazy.
Improvment :
game doesn't explain that you can't jump if your target is behind a planet/star
game doesn't explain the supercruise button (K)
game ask me to slow down when I get close to a planetary body. I emergency stopped the cruise, took damage and circled around the planet at standard speed (took a long long time, no fun !)
i can't always engage autocruise and i don't know why (and i am not mass locked)

4. Combat : BAD !
The second mission send me to fight Alpha vs Omega. I buy the Eagle, fully equip it to all D rating (the best available in newbie zone as far as I know)
I do the training scenario to practice a bit, A-OK. Then, I jump into a low intensity conflict zone (low intensity is easy right ?)

I scan around, and pick the easiest ship I see (competent ASP scout). I mean it's a scout, easy target, no ? I stay behind him, after 5 minutes where I do not take damage, he is down on 70% hull. My thought : god, it takes a long time to wear down ennemies, killing 10 as the mission ask me will take an hour.
Then out of NOWHERE, an enemy makes ONE attack pass on me, I am down to 30 % hull...... (add as many dots as you wish, i am bewildered).......
Well, all pips to engine and I flee. Missile incoming, launch chaff, OK. Missile incoming, launch chaff, OK. Missile incoming, laun... BOOM.
I don't know what killed me nor did I ever saw my killer. I DO NOT have access to missiles.

Ok, I do 2nd, 3rd try. Same result. Didn't killed one enemy. I leave the game and check the wiki.

All enemies are using ships I DO NOT have access to.
All enemies are competent or above (big lol at the elite vulture vs new players)

Frontier : what were you thinking about ?!?!?!?!

My conclusion, as a new player : Elite is not a dofighting game. It is a space trucking simulation.
I mean I got my *** handed to me on a silver plate in a training mission, in a newbie zone. In the real game out there, I will get one-shotted at 10km by an enemy I didn't even detected.

Fix : In starting zone, enemies should be flying in Sidewinders, Eagles and similar.

5. Graduating : is too fast
I was declared gradated after my second landing. I had moved like 12t of goods. Seeing point 5 I am not ready to move out !!
I also didn't touch exploration and mining. Yet the game want me out of newbie zone.
Improvment :
raise the trading first rank or declare graduation on the second rank
instead of sending new players to slaughter (point 5) after learning how to travel, maybe send them first to mining or whatever other activities are available

6. Staying in the newbie zone : i left the newbie zone by mistake, going from Matet to (tbc). The game routed me through a system out of the newbie zone because my jump range wasn't enough.
Improvment :
add a warning
make the autoplot avoid external zones until you took the graduation mission

NB : will improve the layout later. English is not my native language

 

[JustJon]

It can be a tough game to get to grips with - but it is worth the effort

Just on this point

"game ask me to slow down when I get close to a planetary body. I emergency stopped the cruise, took damage and circled around the planet at standard speed (took a long long time, no fun !)"

The game is not asking you to slow down - it is telling you that you are now in the gravitational influence ('gravity well') of that body and it is slowing you down.

For now you can ignore this and generally try to avoid bodies in SC as they make you slow down - longer term you can use that gravity well around the planet to approach the space station more quickly than using the 7 second rule - useful if you keep getting interdicted.

As for not being able to enter supercruise if you are not mass locked then you have hard points deployed - this does include scanners not just weapons and also i your landing gear and fuel scoop need to be retracted.

And as a final note - avoid combat if possible - it is tricky.

 

[rootsrat]

Hello,

I bought the game a month ago and shelve it after boucing around everywhere and not finding any way to make credit (all missions were out of range)
I saw the next update was bringing new player starting zone so I waited.

Here we are now ! Let's talk about my experience.

*while you are reading, note that, as a new player, i do not know the mechanics of the game nor do I have to watch 50 hours of youtube let's play. There is a beginner zone and individual tutorials, everything will be explained there !

1. UI : i received a message. How the hell do I read it ?? Can't use the mouse to click on it. I had to look into key bidding for 20 minutes to figure it out. While I was there i reconfigured a bunch of keys.
Improvments :
(similar to the first take-off checklist) show the new player how to navigate the UI
space for selecting is not intuitive
why can't we use the mouse when docked, there is no gameplay reason to shake your ship around when docked (is there ??)
improve the default keymapping (mouse controlling both 'rudder' and 'ailerons' is ****, it's the reason why i was boucing around everywhere a month ago)

2. Missions : all around better than before
Improvment :
maybe place courier or delivery missions as 'recommended' ?
if there is only one reward, why the reward selection screen ? (clicking for no reason)
Question :
If i already have medicine in my cargo, why can't I directly complete the mission if offered ? I had to sell the cargo and another round trip. Why ??

3. Undocking/autopilot : great ! the 7 second rule is known by all experienced pilots but as a beginner, last month, i was looping like crazy.
Improvment :
game doesn't explain that you can't jump if your target is behind a planet/star
game doesn't explain the supercruise button (K)
game ask me to slow down when I get close to a planetary body. I emergency stopped the cruise, took damage and circled around the planet at standard speed (took a long long time, no fun !)
i can't always engage autocruise and i don't know why (and i am not mass locked)

4. Combat : BAD !
The second mission send me to fight Alpha vs Omega. I buy the Eagle, fully equip it to all D rating (the best available in newbie zone as far as I know)
I do the training scenario to practice a bit, A-OK. Then, I jump into a low intensity conflict zone (low intensity is easy right ?)

I scan around, and pick the easiest ship I see (competent ASP scout). I mean it's a scout, easy target, no ? I stay behind him, after 5 minutes where I do not take damage, he is down on 70% hull. My thought : god, it takes a long time to wear down ennemies, killing 10 as the mission ask me will take an hour.
Then out of NOWHERE, an enemy makes ONE attack pass on me, I am down to 30 % hull...... (add as many dots as you wish, i am bewildered).......
Well, all pips to engine and I flee. Missile incoming, launch chaff, OK. Missile incoming, launch chaff, OK. Missile incoming, laun... BOOM.
I don't know what killed me nor did I ever saw my killer. I DO NOT have access to missiles.

Ok, I do 2nd, 3rd try. Same result. Didn't killed one enemy. I leave the game and check the wiki.

All enemies are using ships I DO NOT have access to.
All enemies are competent or above (big lol at the elite vulture vs new players)

Frontier : what were you thinking about ?!?!?!?!

My conclusion, as a new player : Elite is not a dofighting game. It is a space trucking simulation.
I mean I got my *** handed to me on a silver plate in a training mission, in a newbie zone. In the real game out there, I will get one-shotted at 10km by an enemy I didn't even detected.

Fix : In starting zone, enemies should be flying in Sidewinders, Eagles and similar.

5. Graduating : is too fast
I was declared gradated after my second landing. I had moved like 12t of goods. Seeing point 5 I am not ready to move out !!
I also didn't touch exploration and mining. Yet the game want me out of newbie zone.
Improvment :
raise the trading first rank or declare graduation on the second rank
instead of sending new players to slaughter (point 5) after learning how to travel, maybe send them first to mining or whatever other activities are available

6. Staying in the newbie zone : i left the newbie zone by mistake, going from Matet to (tbc). The game routed me through a system out of the newbie zone because my jump range wasn't enough.
Improvment :
add a warning
make the autoplot avoid external zones until you took the graduation mission

NB : will improve the layout later. English is not my native language

I have an alt account where I've reset my save after this patch just to see how the initial flow looks like from new player's perspective. I was going to post some feedback, but you've actually covered most of the points I wanted to raise

 

[ThatSmileyGuy]

game doesn't explain that you can't jump if your target is behind a planet/star

Except that it does. Look at the info display(upper right corner). It will show You that the target is obscured, You have to navigate in such way that the target can be jumped to(the "circle" surrounding the system is a continous one instead of broken).

game doesn't explain the supercruise button (K)

For me the only binding is the default one that toggles FSD - j.
When You look into the controls menu You will see options to engage jump and engage supercruise. Those can be bound separately.
The default one is kind of all-around switch.
If You are within a system and :
a) no body is targeted
b) body within the system is targeted
then You will engage supercruise.
else You will begin hyperspace jump charging.

game ask me to slow down when I get close to a planetary body. I emergency stopped the cruise, took damage and circled around the planet at standard speed (took a long long time, no fun !)

No offence here, You have Yourself to blame. Game asked to slow down, not emergency stop
But i see where You are coming from. The game has its quirks in game mechanics which need getting used to. Take gravity wells into account. Basicly if You are flying too fast to a body You will be prompted to slow down. For the most part You can just ignore the warning. Make sure, though, to plot the route to that body/station You intend to go to in such way that there is no other body along the way so You avoid slowing down and stay safer, away from pirates along the shipping lane.

1. UI : i received a message. How the hell do I read it ?? Can't use the mouse to click on it. I had to look into key bidding for 20 minutes to figure it out. While I was there i reconfigured a bunch of keys.

The game's UI is mostly controlled by the inputs of desired controller(Keyboard, xbox controller, hotas) in such way that You can bind any of the panels to a button.
Hence it's easier to navigate everything. Imagine having station services open and trying to target messages panel. It would be hard and frustrating.

space for selecting is not intuitive

But it's quicker and more comfortable given it's the closest to default WSAD configuration.

The second mission send me to fight Alpha vs Omega. I buy the Eagle, fully equip it to all D rating

D-Rating is the lowest weight of all modules on sale. It's not really what You would want to bring into combat, more to exploration.

I scan around, and pick the easiest ship I see (competent ASP scout). I mean it's a scout, easy target, no ?

You can find a lot of great pilots on Youtube who take down ships a lot bigger than theirs. It's a matter of practice and an enemy really. As a beginner it's better to get a good grip of how Your ship handles before fighting other ships. Also when in a RES try attacking ships that are under attack from security forces.

Regarding the missiles, chaf does not affect them. You can either shoot them down or use point deffence module.

 

[Ian Skippy]

This is some quality feedback from OP. Easy to not get this perspective if you know the game, but good points are raised.

 

[CemXen]

Except that it does. Look at the info display(upper right corner). It will show You that the target is obscured, You have to navigate in such way that the target can be jumped to(the "circle" surrounding the system is a continous one instead of broken).


For me the only binding is the default one that toggles FSD - j.
When You look into the controls menu You will see options to engage jump and engage supercruise. Those can be bound separately.
The default one is kind of all-around switch.
If You are within a system and :
a) no body is targeted
b) body within the system is targeted
then You will engage supercruise.
else You will begin hyperspace jump charging.


No offence here, You have Yourself to blame. Game asked to slow down, not emergency stop
But i see where You are coming from. The game has its quirks in game mechanics which need getting used to. Take gravity wells into account. Basicly if You are flying too fast to a body You will be prompted to slow down. For the most part You can just ignore the warning. Make sure, though, to plot the route to that body/station You intend to go to in such way that there is no other body along the way so You avoid slowing down and stay safer, away from pirates along the shipping lane.


The game's UI is mostly controlled by the inputs of desired controller(Keyboard, xbox controller, hotas) in such way that You can bind any of the panels to a button.
Hence it's easier to navigate everything. Imagine having station services open and trying to target messages panel. It would be hard and frustrating.


But it's quicker and more comfortable given it's the closest to default WSAD configuration.


D-Rating is the lowest weight of all modules on sale. It's not really what You would want to bring into combat, more to exploration.


You can find a lot of great pilots on Youtube who take down ships a lot bigger than theirs. It's a matter of practice and an enemy really. As a beginner it's better to get a good grip of how Your ship handles before fighting other ships. Also when in a RES try attacking ships that are under attack from security forces.

Regarding the missiles, chaf does not affect them. You can either shot them down or use point deffence module.

I think you misunderstood the goal of this post.

I am not asking how to play the game.

I am reporting the feeling, good or bad, the frustration and the interrogations of a new player going through starter zone.

Sure some players with 3000hours of gameplay can destroy an elite vulture while flying a stock sidewinder.
Those players are not the population Frontier had in mind while creating the starter zone.

 

[ThatSmileyGuy]

I think you misunderstood the goal of this post.

I did understand. And i appreciate Your post. FD can focus on making the game play properly thanks to such contributions as Yours.
Me, myself however, never had issues playing elite. Maybe we have different mindsets You and i.
If i learned something then it was out of curiosity and the hard way. But found the learning curve both challenging and rewarding. But i'm going off-topic here.
Hope You have not been discouraged from playing and FD do make the new player experience better.

 

[Fake Newts]

Gonna be a long post but this whole issue makes me real mad, apologies in advance.

Part of the problem is that when the game was initially designed and balanced there were far fewer defensive options available and Fdev has taken no steps to offset the consistent, exponential growth of healthpools, dating all the way back to the inception of Shield Cell Banks.

Starting out - even without engineering (just with stock modules) it's theoretically possible for the Asp Scout you fought (which, bear in mind, is a terrible ship) to have up to 1900 hull and 235mj of biweave shielding. This is with all internal slots filled with hull reinforcement packages, so the actual value would've been lower, but even if we halve that it's still a formidable amount of HP for vanilla ships including those much more capable than a D-rated Eagle.

An Eagle with all gimballed pulse weapons (a common newbie gun) does 18.7 DPS, ignoring shields and factoring in natural hull resistances against thermal weapons this means it would take 1.7ish minutes of non-stop laser fire from within 500 m range to kill a tanky Asp Scout with stock c1 pulse lasers (not counting module sniping, which as a newbie you shouldn't be expected to know). 1.7 minutes, not so bad? Maybe?... Wrong. Consider that an eagle's weapon capacitor, in this case a D, will drain in 6 seconds (an A will drain in... wait for it... 11 seconds! Such power!) So that 1.7 minutes will stretch into eternity. Moreover we didn't factor in initial shields or shield rebuilds (of which there would be many) so yeah, you're looking at the very least at 5 minutes to kill one (crappy) ship, before engineering, assuming ideal conditions and constant trigger time with 4 pips to weapons within 500 metre range. What joy.

I've taken this extreme example to make a point, clearly not all NPC Asp Scouts will have all their internals filled with Hull Reinforcements, but hopefully you can see how this is a keg of worms, especially (but not only) when it comes to player builds. The tiny Eagle that you're flying, for example, can get 960 hull points without mods, (up to 1500~ + perfect resistances with mods.) The same eagle flown by someone who doesn't realise the importance of HRPs, is just starting out, or who wants to multitask? 72 hull. Such discrepancies within a single hull are just the tip of the iceberg, it only gets worse once you move up through the stable.

With engineering many ships are able to boost their effective healthpool (hull+shields+resistances) by a factor of 2000 - 2500%. With engineering players are able to boost their damage output by an average of about 100%. Something seems screwy about these numbers, right? Yet buffing weapons more to match the utterly stupid healthpools would be disastrous when you think about those players who're booping around in their 72 hp Eagles, (or even their 666hp Corvettes). You've started playing Elite at its worst-balanced moment since launch. Those 666hp Corvettes do not last more than a few seconds under fire from engineered ships, be it players, Spec Ops, assassination target wings, meanwhile a 'correctly' outfitted Corvette will be able to go AFK in the middle of a warzone and not bat an eye.

So, potential stock defences are out of all feasible proportion with stock weaponry. Engineering amplifies this by a frankly hilarious amount. Players (and increasingly NPCs) you can comfortably engage with either cooperatively or competitively is severely limited to those close enough to you on an extraordinarily and irredeemably stretched power spectrum. Most mid-to-long-term PVE players (many of whom frequent these forums) tend to not notice the scale of this issue partly because they've been slowly adjusting their ship builds over the course of the game's development, and/or simply don't engage in much high-end combat at all.

There will probably come a moment when more people notice it, unfortunately it's already gone a long way towards killing Open play for a lot of people over the past couple of years, and as your post shows, it's now starting to get a grip on PvE too. Wait till you meet spec ops and see how much fun it is to sit still and pour ammo clip after ammo clip into a ship that's almost-player level tanky, and yet lacks the firepower to do any actual damage to your modded ship... honestly, it's thrilling. Meanwhile Fdev, in their infinite wisdom, have just buffed the internal (read: HRP) capacity of all ships by adding free module slots. 28% more ehp for FDLs anyone? Lovely stuff. Good job everyone. Good job.

TL;DR: balancing is beyond crap across the board in the game now, and for some reason neither Fdev nor a large section of its playerbase has noticed or done anything about it. Enjoy.

 

[rootsrat]

Gonna be a long post but this whole issue makes me real mad, apologies in advance.

Part of the problem is that when the game was initially designed and balanced there were far fewer defensive options available and Fdev has taken no steps to offset the consistent, exponential growth of healthpools, dating all the way back to the inception of Shield Cell Banks.

Starting out - even without engineering (just with stock modules) it's theoretically possible for the Asp Scout you fought (which, bear in mind, is a terrible ship) to have up to 1900 hull and 235mj of biweave shielding. This is with all internal slots filled with hull reinforcement packages, so the actual value would've been lower, but even if we halve that it's still a formidable amount of HP for vanilla ships including those much more capable than a D-rated Eagle.

An Eagle with all gimballed pulse weapons (a common newbie gun) does 18.7 DPS, ignoring shields and factoring in natural hull resistances against thermal weapons this means it would take 1.7ish minutes of non-stop laser fire from within 500 m range to kill a tanky Asp Scout with stock c1 pulse lasers (not counting module sniping, which as a newbie you shouldn't be expected to know). 1.7 minutes, not so bad? Maybe?... Wrong. Consider that an eagle's weapon capacitor, in this case a D, will drain in 6 seconds (an A will drain in... wait for it... 11 seconds! Such power!) So that 1.7 minutes will stretch into eternity. Moreover we didn't factor in initial shields or shield rebuilds (of which there would be many) so yeah, you're looking at the very least at 5 minutes to kill one (crappy) ship, before engineering, assuming ideal conditions and constant trigger time with 4 pips to weapons within 500 metre range. What joy.

I've taken this extreme example to make a point, clearly not all NPC Asp Scouts will have all their internals filled with Hull Reinforcements, but hopefully you can see how this is a keg of worms, especially (but not only) when it comes to player builds. The tiny Eagle that you're flying, for example, can get 960 hull points without mods, (up to 1500~ + perfect resistances with mods.) The same eagle flown by someone who doesn't realise the importance of HRPs, is just starting out, or who wants to multitask? 72 hull. Such discrepancies within a single hull are just the tip of the iceberg, it only gets worse once you move up through the stable.

With engineering many ships are able to boost their effective healthpool (hull+shields+resistances) by a factor of 2000 - 2500%. With engineering players are able to boost their damage output by an average of about 100%. Something seems screwy about these numbers, right? Yet buffing weapons more to match the utterly stupid healthpools would be disastrous when you think about those players who're booping around in their 72 hp Eagles, (or even their 666hp Corvettes). You've started playing Elite at its worst-balanced moment since launch. Those 666hp Corvettes do not last more than a few seconds under fire from engineered ships, be it players, Spec Ops, assassination target wings, meanwhile a 'correctly' outfitted Corvette will be able to go AFK in the middle of a warzone and not bat an eye.

So, potential stock defences are out of all feasible proportion with stock weaponry. Engineering amplifies this by a frankly hilarious amount. Players (and increasingly NPCs) you can comfortably engage with either cooperatively or competitively is severely limited to those close enough to you on an extraordinarily and irredeemably stretched power spectrum. Most mid-to-long-term PVE players (many of whom frequent these forums) tend to not notice the scale of this issue partly because they've been slowly adjusting their ship builds over the course of the game's development, and/or simply don't engage in much high-end combat at all.

There will probably come a moment when more people notice it, unfortunately it's already gone a long way towards killing Open play for a lot of people over the past couple of years, and as your post shows, it's now starting to get a grip on PvE too. Wait till you meet spec ops and see how much fun it is to sit still and pour ammo clip after ammo clip into a ship that's almost-player level tanky, and yet lacks the firepower to do any actual damage to your modded ship... honestly, it's thrilling. Meanwhile Fdev, in their infinite wisdom, have just buffed the internal (read: HRP) capacity of all ships by adding free module slots. 28% more ehp for FDLs anyone? Lovely stuff. Good job everyone. Good job.

TL;DR: balancing is beyond crap across the board in the game now, and for some reason neither Fdev nor a large section of its playerbase has noticed or done anything about it. Enjoy.

Thanks for a constructive post! I was never into numbers and I've never looked at Engineers from that point of view. Interesting take!

 

[Fake Newts]

You can find a lot of great pilots on Youtube who take down ships a lot bigger than theirs. It's a matter of practice and an enemy really.

If you're referring to Cilit Bang-era pre-2.1 game balance (or current Fully Modded G5 henchmanship) this was feasible and common. When I started playing, killing pirate lord Anacondas in Vipers was a breeze (especially when they started rolling on the spot). Since then there have been numerous dramatic changes made affecting, for example, armour penetration values, shield regeneration and the slow but consistent spread of engi mods into NPC builds.

As it stands in 2019 it's pretty much impossible for a vanilla A Eagle, let alone a D rated one, to successfully kill any reasonable combat fit ship in any reasonable timeframe, not in terms of skill, but in terms of sheer numbers - it just doesn't have the potential DPS or distro cap to do so in the new ecosystem. The experience of two players duelling in unmodded Vipers (a staple among my player group for years) is vastly different now to how it was a couple of years ago. With HRPs, biweave shields and roughly equal skill levels it's far more likely that we run out of ammo before either player dies. In the case of duels we therefore often set rules about the kind of defences you're allowed to bring to avoid the boredom of 15+ minute fights. It objectively shouldn't be the player's responsibility to impose balance on the game.

The inexorable bloat of healthpools has been slow enough that it's easy for established players to overlook, given that most of us have been tweaking and upgrading our ships (and reining in our expectations) within the same timeframe. When you say:

Me, myself however, never had issues playing elite.

It's actually valid for me to ask when it was you started playing, and at what point in your career you chose to engage in combat, because the lay of the land has changed (and continues to change) considerably. I'd ask that you take some time to revisit vanilla ships, try to test the boundaries of the combat, try to crunch some numbers in coriolis/shipyard and calculate TTK across a few fits/hulls.

To be clear I'm not specifically calling you out on this, your post was reasonable and you were constructive, I just think the way this issue has crept into the game means it is under the radar of a lot of long term players and stands no chance of being fixed/improved until it's more widely acknowledged as a problem. I'm repeating myself from earlier, but Fdev's additional slots this patch is a clear sign that they are not mindful of the problem, and the OPs experience is going to become commonplace.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

Here we are now ! Let's talk about my experience.

Great post. The game has definitely got easier in the interface since the original release, but there's still a long way to go and hopefully Frontier pay attention to some of this.

why can't we use the mouse when docked, there is no gameplay reason to shake your ship around when docked (is there ??)

Mouse works fine for me while docked, so this may be another "default control mapping is a mess" issue. I don't use the mouse for flight control at all, so maybe that's the difference?

improve the default keymapping (mouse controlling both 'rudder' and 'ailerons' is ****, it's the reason why i was boucing around everywhere a month ago)

Yeah, that was one of the first settings I turned off as well. Don't know why it's the default.

If i already have medicine in my cargo, why can't I directly complete the mission if offered ? I had to sell the cargo and another round trip. Why ??

It depends on the mission type. Some missions just want generic medicine, while others want a specific bit of cargo (cough medicine, perhaps). Again, it's one of those things where if you've done a few of them you just know what to do, but the first few really would benefit from more specific instructions.

3. Undocking/autopilot : great ! the 7 second rule is known by all experienced pilots but as a beginner, last month, i was looping like crazy.

Quick note here: once you get better at flying, the loops can actually be quite a bit faster and more fun than the 7 second rule - you just have to do the right sort of loop. But that's for later

4. Combat : BAD !
The second mission send me to fight Alpha vs Omega. I buy the Eagle, fully equip it to all D rating (the best available in newbie zone as far as I know)
I do the training scenario to practice a bit, A-OK. Then, I jump into a low intensity conflict zone (low intensity is easy right ?)

Low intensity is easy compared with the other combat zones, but all combat zones are intended for endgame-quality ships and pilots! There really shouldn't be one in the beginner zones at all! They're home to some of the toughest NPCs in the game.

If they want to include CZs, they need - as you say - to be special beginner CZs with just Sidewinders and Eagles. Maybe call them "really low intensity CZs" so you don't get the wrong idea of what the main game ones will have.

Well, all pips to engine and I flee. Missile incoming, launch chaff, OK. Missile incoming, launch chaff, OK. Missile incoming, laun... BOOM.

Quick note: chaff doesn't disrupt missile targeting. There's very little you can do in an Eagle versus missiles, in fact - a point defence (can you buy those?) might keep them off you, but the chaff is generally more useful.

My conclusion, as a new player : Elite is not a dofighting game. It is a space trucking simulation.
I mean I got my *** handed to me on a silver plate in a training mission, in a newbie zone. In the real game out there, I will get one-shotted at 10km by an enemy I didn't even detected.

Oddly, possibly not. A lot of the real game NPC enemies are flying fairly weak ships - if you managed to take a combat zone Asp Scout down that much before getting killed, in a D-rated Eagle, you're probably pretty good and should do fine versus a lot of NPCs.

Fix : In starting zone, enemies should be flying in Sidewinders, Eagles and similar.

Yep.

5. Graduating : is too fast

A lot of us predicted this when it was announced. The first ranks of Trade or Exploration are really easy to get - they need to stretch the curves on those out so they match the combat one again, or let you stay in the zone at a much higher rank in those two (even the second promotion won't take long!)

6. Staying in the newbie zone : i left the newbie zone by mistake, going from Matet to (tbc). The game routed me through a system out of the newbie zone because my jump range wasn't enough.

Ouch! Yeah, that really needs fixing up. Possibly not letting you jump out of the zone at all until you do the graduation mission?

 

[Para Handy]

..........
A lot of us predicted this when it was announced. The first ranks of Trade or Exploration are really easy to get - they need to stretch the curves on those out so they match the combat one again, or let you stay in the zone at a much higher rank in those two (even the second promotion won't take long!)

Ouch! Yeah, that really needs fixing up. Possibly not letting you jump out of the zone at all until you do the graduation mission?

1. You are not chucked out on promotion - in my several run-throughs (clear-saves) of the new system I was up to dealer and still could be flitting about in there bored with the tens of thousand credit mission rewards. They offer you a bribe (250,000Cr) "exploration" mission to get you to leave. BTW - you can't gain exploration rank IN the newb zone, all the systems are known and closely grouped (but see my point about out-of zone travel below).

2. I said this elsewhere - the OP did not lose access to the newb zone by being routed via a non-zone system - you are clearly warned that you lose the permit if you DOCK outside the zone - so you could go on a grand tour in your D-rated sidewinder and still have the permit as long as you don't dock.


So even if you get your rank in combat and trade raised (yes you can do combat if you chose not to do daft CZ missions) you can still "do your thang" in the zone - you can try out the various activities by means of the mining, surface salvage, etc, etc. missions that are on offer. Just because someone wanted to be a hot-shot space-shooter totally overlooks the opportunities that newcomers have to try out all sorts of activities in high-security systems in the anbsence of uber-powerful PK types. (PKers can of course still PK newbies but they have to rely on their knowledge and skills in D-rated ships.)

 

[ThatSmileyGuy]

It's actually valid for me to ask when it was you started playing, and at what point in your career you chose to engage in combat,

Of course.
I started playing back in 2016 i guess? Before engineers were a thing anyway.
I had my humble beginnings piloting a sidey before i swithed to hauler and had little to no idea what to do so i was polishing my piloting skills(landing, launching etc.)
I mostly stayed out of combat by that time since i was gathering credits and failed an interdiction escape or two an had to resort to escaping. Which resulted in me having to repair my ship.
I started combat when i bought my Cobra mk3 which must have been somewhere around a year into the game, maybe a little sooner than that. I was very careful and stayed within High RES. From then on when i got my srv and made some good buck RES farming i started getting more into the game. Getting to know its ins and outs.
Although i have to admit i did read a bit of forums / wiki / reddit to have a few things explained. Let alone watching Youtube videos to catch up on some things.
Then again, my experience was vastly different than what OP posted in his thread but that might be because everyone is different. I found the difficulty of getting to know how to pilot the ship satisfying. It felt proper that i had difficulties operating one of the most sophisticated machines ever to be invented(in the ED universe that is). One does not jump into the jumbojet expecting to know everything from the get go, do they? That was(and still is) what motivated me. To me the division of the GUI was clear and very easy to navigate. Ship was good at communicating what was wrong(if anything).

Yet i appreciate that OP took His time to highlight what problems might appear for new players.

 

[Ian Doncaster]

1. You are not chucked out on promotion - in my several run-throughs (clear-saves) of the new system I was up to dealer and still could be flitting about in there bored with the tens of thousand credit mission rewards. They offer you a bribe (250,000Cr) "exploration" mission to get you to leave. BTW - you can't gain exploration rank IN the newb zone, all the systems are known and closely grouped (but see my point about out-of zone travel below).

Wouldn't finding materials - e.g. driving an SRV around a planet - potentially gain enough exploration rank to kick you out?

2. I said this elsewhere - the OP did not lose access to the newb zone by being routed via a non-zone system - you are clearly warned that you lose the permit if you DOCK outside the zone - so you could go on a grand tour in your D-rated sidewinder and still have the permit as long as you don't dock.

With the Sidewinder's limited tank and not coming with a fuel scoop by default it could be quite easy to end up having to dock, though. Or make a very early call to the Fuel Rats... And that's exactly the sort of "you should have thought of that sooner" knowledge that an experienced player resetting their account will have, and a genuine beginner won't.

(yes you can do combat if you chose not to do daft CZ missions)

Which, again, a beginner shouldn't be expected to know that of course you don't do the CZ missions in the noob zone because it's impossible to build a ship anywhere near good enough to take them. Frontier have intentionally gone to the trouble of setting up a war in a BGS-locked area so that the CZ missions are there in the first place!

 

[Para Handy]

Wouldn't finding materials - e.g. driving an SRV around a planet - potentially gain enough exploration rank to kick you out?
.........

I repeat this yet again - you do not get kicked out. Even if you did drive around and get promoted (or did a trip outside) you are not "kicked out". You can stay in there as long as you like. I deliberately hung about and traded past Dealer on several clear-save restarts and the only difference I saw was the offered "go explore" 250,000 Cr bribe mission to entice you out. I could still be in there doing trading, surface missions, mining missions and combat ones etc. if I was not in danger of having my brains dribble out my ears from the tedium of low-value missions and max D rated kit. You see, the only faction in every station is the Pilot's Fed one - apart from the one system with an Alpha and Omega faction offering missions to attack each other (which I never did but the OP found mismatched - fair comment).

 

[Decksmeck]

This sort of problem has been around in massively multiplayer online games since I can remember. All that we're really talking about is that new weapons and armor are available to everyone. New players have to earn it and it takes a long time. Long time players have it already.

And other massively multiplayer online games, there is usually a level limit when it comes to player versus player. So the highest level player can only engage in player-versus-player combat with somebody that's within say 10 levels. New players are then completely invulnerable until they get Within that threshold.

The only way to do something similar in the elite dangerous, is to make it that you can't engage in player-versus-player combat with people unless they're within a certain combat rating that is close to yours. So in that case an Elite ranked player might be able to fight other Elite ranked players but also deadly rank.

 

[Fake Newts]

This sort of problem has been around in massively multiplayer online games since I can remember. All that we're really talking about is that new weapons and armor are available to everyone. New players have to earn it and it takes a long time. Long time players have it already.

And other massively multiplayer online games, there is usually a level limit when it comes to player versus player. So the highest level player can only engage in player-versus-player combat with somebody that's within say 10 levels. New players are then completely invulnerable until they get Within that threshold.

The only way to do something similar in the elite dangerous, is to make it that you can't engage in player-versus-player combat with people unless they're within a certain combat rating that is close to yours. So in that case an Elite ranked player might be able to fight other Elite ranked players but also deadly rank.

Elite isn't a true MMO by any stretch of the imagination, either gameplay wise or networking wise. The standard grind loot get better gear loop doesn't work in this game as it's pitching everyone a functional simulated ecosystem, then failing to deliver. Also, as I've stated, health bloat is a massive issue between identical ships and players of identical skill level. It's not fun to have to shoot a single thing for 20 minutes and synthesize several batches of ammunition before it dies. The reason MMOs have a power spectrum is to keep things fun and interesting for players at every level, whereas Elite's current balancing fails literally everyone all the time.

 

[Ronzer]

Seeing how well they make some of training missions, I think what you suggest as fixes should be doable. I was guessing the ability to stay in these zones till your first rank in anything was a bit low. As you say, that happens after a mission or 2. But really, it should happen after you do a few missions in each field...combat, trading, mining, etc. So not by rank at all, but after a certain number of each mission type and passengers is done. If you're going to have a new commander zone, you may as well make it all straight forward, not difficult, and instrcutive.
You should have to pick a system outside of the new commander permitted systems, for it to allow you out. Otherwise, all missions, jump routes, systems required in missions, should be contained in those systems. There should be no 'accidental' jumping out.
If you're good enough or just want to, at any point, you can leave those zones and your permit is gone.