Feedback on FA OFF learning

Hi everybody,

After 3 years on ED (and many more on the first Elite, back in the 80s), I decided to learn FA OFF. Why ? Because I'm frustrated to fly in a spaceship and to pilot it like a plane. Frustrated to evolve in a full 3D scene without being able to take advantage of it, restricted to follow the curve the FA decided for me. I now want to feel the sensations of a real spaceship, like the pioneers of the space adventure.
The goal of this post is not no give technical advices on FA OFF, there are some very good tutorial about this. I just want to write a little feedback on my humble experience. I will be glad if this can help an hesitating player to "cross the river".
I still don't play PvP (just began some CQC, it's fun), so there is no real need to master FA OFF. Consider this as a challenge. I gave it a try, soon after starting the game, it's been a total waste of time. I was not prepared to that. And switching to FA OFF just to see how it feels, is a bad idea. After 5 minutes trying to randomly stabilize your uncontrolable ship, after crashing on every wall in or around the station, being stuck between a wall and a metallic beam, being turned into glowing dust by the security because of loitering the neighboring pads, your blood pressure raising up to 25, feeling dizzy enough to puke on the keyboard, you switch back to FA ON, cool down, have a coffee and return to your current missions. It's a fail.

Of course, like almost everybody, I watched Isinona's videos, with a dribble of saliva at the corner of my mouth, just thinking "OMG, how the hell is this possible, is this guy a human ?". I tried to practice with other good tutorials, but ... no way. The exercices on those videos are good, and it may be useful for some players, but they did not help me.

So I decided to try a more extreme way : disconnecting the FA ON button. Forever ! And do what I can do, no matter if it takes an hour to achieve something that could be done in 30s with FA ON. I decided to search for an outpost inside an asteroid belt or planet ring. There's just one, a few LY from the bubble, called Rho Platform, in system HIP 100539. This way, I can practice both docking and rocks dodging, in the same place. So I parked my long range FSD vessel at Esclangon Station in HIP 104349, bought a stock Sidewinder here, put it a slightly better FSD just to reach Rho Platform, and docked it there. Docking in Rho Platform is important, because in case of crash, you respawn from there. Once docked, I switched to FA OFF.

Day 1 : Following Isinona's advice, I put 0 pip to engine, to halve the max speed. And with the landing gear deployed, the speed is once again halved (max 57 with a Sidewinder), so you can train even more comfortably. Leaving the outpost is easy (up thrust, you're done). I spent a few minutes turning around the outpost, but without aiming a particular point to reach. Because when you focus on a point, you over-compensate your moves to keep in sight of this point, and quickly start spinning around every known or unknown axes. Just let the ship go where it wants to go, only bring soft compensation to keep turning randomly around the outpost. The only condition was to keep close to the outpost.

When you feel a little better with keeping the ship almost stable, it's time to dock. My first landing on the assigned pad took 6 minutes ! You can laugh, I don't mind :) I thought I would have to cancel the request and ask for a new one to reset the countdown, but it was not even necessary. That's stupid, but the satisfaction of being able to land the ship, even after a grotesque and hilarious dance, is worth living.

Choosing an outpost, and not a station, is very important. In a station, there are some additional traps you don't have on an outpost. First, crossing the "mail slot" is very very hard, may be harder than landing on the pad (IMHO). You can be rammed by other ships, if you get stuck in the mail slot you get fines, alerts and other deadly countdown from the security, no need to add useless stress ! And once in the station, you can bounce on the walls, crash your ship and have problems as soon as you get too close to another pad than the assigned one. So, a basic outpost is far better to avoid all those problems, and focus on the landing pad.
I repeated the docking exercice 4 or 5 times, with mixed success. As you progress, you realise that you use more and more the main thruster, instead of up/down and lateral thrusters.
As soon as you can make it with docking on an outpost, even if it's tedious, go to the nearest station to practice the same exercice, but with the mail slot to cross first, and the reduced distances inside the station.
 
Plenty of amazing vids to learn FA out there. The station tethering drill comes to mind, check those vids on you tube.

My single advice about FA OFF would be to unmap yaw from your axis in the beginning. Maybe switch that to lateral thrusters instead, that will help to control your vector.
 
The training simulations are good for fa-off practice too, you can crash and blow up as many times as you like consequence-free.

Sure, but I decided to try to stay in the real main game, instead of an isolated sandbox, si I can slowly start to play as usual, starting with basic missions.
 
If somebody could me understanding this : trying to land on a 2.1g planet, dropped from SC at high altitude (too fast), and then decided to engage SC again to reach my destination on ground. So I headed at zenith (90°, escape vector) but FSD never engaged, because ... I was falling. Vertically. I could even perfectly see my own contrails in front of me, as an evidence, if needed, I was rapidly falling. If there was contrails, then the main thruster was working (4 pips ENG, of course). So I tried to switch back to FA ON, to see if it could be different. As soon as FA was activated, the falling got slower, the contrails began to freeze, then disappeared. I was going up again (and still heading zenith). So, it looked like the main thruster was more powerful with FA ON than with FA OFF (enough to win against gravity). Where am I wrong ?
 

Deleted member 182079

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I dabbled a bit more with FA Off recently, and especially since remapping lateral ('strafing') thrusters to the L3/R3 buttons on my XBO pad.

While I can perform docking and flying about relatively competently now, it's still as Navigare says - you spend more time fighting the controls and the novelty wears off quickly especially in combat where I find FA Off is better used sparingly, as it otherwise distracts me too much from managing all the other things (pips, firegroups, etc.). Plus, using a pad makes the whole thing really twitchy, especially when aiming fixed weapons such as rails, I don't know if this is improved with a HOTAS but imagine M&K is the most comfortable (and unrealistic) control method for this.

But it can be a lot of fun messing about in and around stations, asteroid belts or planetside.
 
FA off is not hard on KB+M because of the nature of it, it's hard because FDev didn't put a "relative mouse toggle" button. It's literal PITA flying with relative mouse in SC and it's mandatory to have it in normal space for FA off.

And that's the proof no one in FDev flies FA off. They have no idea.
 
FA off is not hard on KB+M because of the nature of it, it's hard because FDev didn't put a "relative mouse toggle" button. It's literal PITA flying with relative mouse in SC and it's mandatory to have it in normal space for FA off.

And that's the proof no one in FDev flies FA off. They have no idea.

I have the same exact issues your having. I have tried many different settings and still leaves fa on and super cruise sluggish to get fa off just right.

Relative mouse auto toggle to on when fa off is engaged would be my ideal solution. If anyone has had these problems and has overcome them please pm me your secrets...🤯
 

Deleted member 182079

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I have the same exact issues your having. I have tried many different settings and still leaves fa on and super cruise sluggish to get fa off just right.

Relative mouse auto toggle to on when fa off is engaged would be my ideal solution. If anyone has had these problems and has overcome them please pm me your secrets...🤯
Don't use M&K;)

Honestly, I was thinking of trying it, being on PC and all, but I even decided against 'upgrading' to a HOTAS because my muscle memory has become one with my Xbox pad... it feels so natural now that I don't see the need to change (immersion would be one I guess, but the logistics at my desk which is also my workspace make this more cumbersome than it's worth it), although the twitchiness with fixed weapons is the only thing that bugs me about it at times. Could be addressed with analogue stick sensitivity settings though, which most games provide, but for some strange reason Elite can't.
 
I have the same exact issues your having. I have tried many different settings and still leaves fa on and super cruise sluggish to get fa off just right.

Relative mouse auto toggle to on when fa off is engaged would be my ideal solution. If anyone has had these problems and has overcome them please pm me your secrets...🤯
I use numpad to navigate in SC, very stiff but I'm not going into control settings every time I jump to SC or drop into normal space.

Another issue is, there's no vector indicator on the HUD. We can only judge our trajectory by observing the space dust(?) and it's not really an ideal solution because it's trash and hard to see, at least on my low settings. Even Apollo 11 had known its vector, over 1 thousand years later, we don't use it.
 
Don't use M&K;)

Honestly, I was thinking of trying it, being on PC and all, but I even decided against 'upgrading' to a HOTAS because my muscle memory has become one with my Xbox pad... it feels so natural now that I don't see the need to change (immersion would be one I guess, but the logistics at my desk which is also my workspace make this more cumbersome than it's worth it), although the twitchiness with fixed weapons is the only thing that bugs me about it at times. Could be addressed with analogue stick sensitivity settings though, which most games provide, but for some strange reason Elite can't.

I've been using mouse and keyboard for 30 years no interest in hotas. The only thing stopping things from being 10/10 is relative mouse toggle or fa off entered relative mouse on auto toggle.

I can tweak perfect settings for fa off. I can tweak perfect settings for fa on, but not both. I dont like having to change my config everytime I go from combat to super cruise. So I use a middle ground that's not perfect for either and leaves me frustrated.
 
Don't use M&K;)

Honestly, I was thinking of trying it, being on PC and all, but I even decided against 'upgrading' to a HOTAS because my muscle memory has become one with my Xbox pad... it feels so natural now that I don't see the need to change (immersion would be one I guess, but the logistics at my desk which is also my workspace make this more cumbersome than it's worth it), although the twitchiness with fixed weapons is the only thing that bugs me about it at times. Could be addressed with analogue stick sensitivity settings though, which most games provide, but for some strange reason Elite can't.
Wow, genius. I bought this game for like 7 dollars, I'm not paying hundreds of dollars to play it. Especially with this worst flight model PC gaming has ever seen.
 

Deleted member 182079

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I've been using mouse and keyboard for 30 years no interest in hotas. The only thing stopping things from being 10/10 is relative mouse toggle or fa off entered relative mouse on auto toggle.

I can tweak perfect settings for fa off. I can tweak perfect settings for fa on, but not both. I dont like having to change my config everytime I go from combat to super cruise. So I use a middle ground that's not perfect for either and leaves me frustrated.
I can only use M&K for certain games - namely strategy point & click etc. Even FPS games I prefer to play with a pad even if it's less accurate, but it's just more comfortable to me despite sitting at a desk, especially during longer sessions. Maybe it's the fact it reminds me too much of being 'at work' lol who knows.
 

Deleted member 182079

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Wow, genius. I bought this game for like 7 dollars, I'm not paying hundreds of dollars to play it. Especially with this worst flight model PC gaming has ever seen.
Did you honestly think my comment was to be taken seriously? Really?

Not sure what the rest of your post is trying to suggest - nobody asked you to drop 'hundreds of dollars' and the last bit... well if it's so bad maybe stick to NMS.
 
Did you honestly think my comment was to be taken seriously? Really?

Not sure what the rest of your post is trying to suggest - nobody asked you to drop 'hundreds of dollars' and the last bit... well if it's so bad maybe stick to NMS.
Yes, I tend to take everyone's opinions seriously but I'll take a note of you're just being a clown then. (y)
 

Deleted member 182079

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Yes, I tend to take everyone's opinions seriously but I'll take a note of you're just being a clown then. (y)
The winking smiley was the giveaway, surprised it needs pointing out.

But continue with your needless sniping if that makes you happy somehow.
 
Welcome to the FA-off club. once the bug bites you you'll never want to turn the blooming thing back on again.

Slight plug but feel free to drop into our discord in my sig below as we are a FA-off community and lots of good pilots who give great advice on how to fly FA-off. Or just talk dross as we fly badly around things :D
 
I think it's time for an Open Letter about that relative mouse toggle.

I'm not even joking. I mean, I am, but if that would mean we might get that option, I would never make fun of Open Letters again.
 
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