Fer de Lance - pirate ship?

geoffrey.hdt · Jul 13, 2015

Fer de Lance - pirate ship? (vs Clipper / Python)

Hi commanders,

I do piracy from time to time and have so far a dual railgun Cobra with 32T for the task.
I works pretty well (when the trader does not take the silly decision to ignore my warnings and run away, or combat log...). However I have now about 110 millions to spend and think to go for a bigger ship, mostly for the mass lock factor.

I do not do that for the profit (if so, choosing piracy would be really silly) and know that the Clippers is considered to be the best pirate ship since it is the fastest of its class (good to run after or away from anything), has a good firepower, and large cargo capacity.

However I do not like it for the below reasons:
- Hardpoint placement. I shoot drives via fixed weapons and on the Clipper it will be left or right group, ending up with same firepower as my Cobra (two railguns)
- I am not ranked with the Empire (and damn, my dropship cannot even catch up with a T6/T7...)
- It's too mainstream

+ huge cargo, though I'd be fine with less and go unload my precious regularly

I consider going for Fer de Lance instead:
+ 3 railguns with delightful convergence
+ still 2 medium hardpoints for gimbals pulse
- slower than Clipper, but can still run after any trading ships
+ strong shield, no real need to run away (high wake if outnumbered by wing of Clippers for instance)
- small cargo only, but I am fine with that

What do you think? Please share your thoughts and experience.
Here is the config of FdL I am thinking about (need power management, see comment 7 below):
http://edshipyard.com/#/L=70O,9qS9qS9qS5Rr5Rr01Q01Q3RY0_q0_q0_q,2-7_7_6Q6u9Y6u5A,08c7RA9tu5PU5PU

And to prove that I am a polite pirate, not a psycho (otherwise the FdL would be perfect and i would not have to type this post):

Frenotx · Jul 13, 2015

Unless I'm missing something, you don't have quite enough power for that.

Basaltfeuer · Jul 13, 2015

It works ... with only one chaff launcher powered at a time and all the other stuff you dont need for combat turned off it sums up to 100% power comsumption

Frenotx · Jul 13, 2015

Basaltfeuer said:
It works ... with only one chaff launcher powered at a time and all the other stuff you dont need for combat turned off it sums up to 100% power comsumption

But why would you only power 1 chaff launcher at a time?

DextersIndignation · Jul 13, 2015

You may need 4 of those pirate guns cytoscramblers I am certain they would help....

lol

VladtheImpaler · Jul 13, 2015

This is the same I do for my pirate Vulture. Drop the shield down to C4 and use the C5 for 32T cargo. I also have 4T cargo rack, but I think I'm going to try a collector limpet.

I hope this FDL works, because if I ever make it 110 million, I was planning on doing the same as you.

Morbad · Jul 13, 2015

I'd switch the boosters to 2xC and 1xA so the second chaff can be powered, or dispense with the second chaff launcher entirely and run four C boosters.

An FDL with this sort of loadout isn't going to be able to stand and fight dedicated combat vessels, so the second chaff is pretty redundant.

geoffrey.hdt · Jul 13, 2015

Frenotx said:
Unless I'm missing something, you don't have quite enough power for that.

Set the below modules for low priority, and you will still have 0.02 unit of power left once you deploy your hardpoints:
- Cargo Scoop
- Frame Shift Drive
- Frame shift drive interdictor
- Both collector controllers

Also, cargo scanner disabled by default. If enabled, it disables one of the chaff. Not super convenient but anyway I scan only if my target has cut engines, retracted hardpoints and does not face me.

- - - Updated - - -

Morbad said:
I'd switch the boosters to 2xC and 1xA so the second chaff can be powered, or dispense with the second chaff launcher entirely and run four C boosters.

See my answer to FretnotX above.

Morbad said:
An FDL with this sort of loadout isn't going to be able to stand and fight dedicated combat vessels, so the second chaff is pretty redundant.

I do take into account being outnumbered at any moment. Double chaff + 4pips to SYS/2pips to ENG should allow me to high-wake if I cannot go supercruise. I have done that many times after being interdicted while hauling some stuff for CGs in my python. And if it works in my fat, slow, class 4 shield python, it should work even better with the FdL.

geoffrey.hdt · Jul 13, 2015

Hey guys, thanks for double checking my config but...my main question was: is it dumb to go for a pirate FdL?
If so, should I really go for the grind fest and hopefully rank up with the Empire to get a Clipper?

Frenotx · Jul 13, 2015

geoffrey.hdt said:
Hey guys, thanks for double checking my config but...my main question was: is it dumb to go for a pirate FdL?
If so, should I really go for the grind fest and hopefully rank up with the Empire to get a Clipper?

Have you considered a python? Or is the speed too much of a concern?

geoffrey.hdt · Jul 13, 2015

Frenotx said:
Have you considered a python? Or is the speed too much of a concern?

I have a Python already and yep, speed is a concern...I do love the pirate paint skin though

On top of not being able to catch up with a T6 (and I have no fun in shooting down a trader as soon as he tries to escape), any other combat capable ships can outrun it, hence the only escape option is to high-wake and I would like to avoid this. If rebuy cost would not be so high, I'd love to fight to the death with.

Frenotx · Jul 13, 2015

There is also the option of just blowing out the trader's thrusters before they have a chance to do anything. Large PA with some gimballed cannons will make that happen quite quickly.

geoffrey.hdt · Jul 13, 2015

Frenotx said:
There is also the option of just blowing out the trader's thrusters before they have a chance to do anything. Large PA with some gimballed cannons will make that happen quite quickly.

Well, that's what I do with my dual railguns Cobra but most of the time the ship blows up...and then you hear people screaming "griefer!" on the forum...

rightsideupsidedown · Jul 13, 2015

Yes I think an FDL would make a good pirate ship. I think speed would be a very important aspect. The FDL would be able to catch most trade ships except the Cobra, Clipper and maybe the T6. The Asp is just a little slower. I thought the last time I tested it getting close to or infront of another ship with a larger ship could block their FSD charge. Too bad ramming them doesn't reset the FSD.

The FDL to me seems to be the primo bounty/pirate ship because of all the Utility mounts and medium pad size. The downside is it might not have a long enough jump range to follow a wake. On the upside you can equip it with 6 chaffs and throw confetti parties. The Clipper can't land at most outposts, actually I haven't seen an outpost it can land on and it will probably gets scanned a lot more.

Frenotx · Jul 13, 2015

If you pop the shield with the rails, then any excess damage gets distributed to the hull. The rail gun does a LOT of damage, but it just doesn't seem like it since most of it usually penetrates, and wrecks whatever module it hits. If your target's shield is about to fail when you hit them with the rail guns, then a small amount of damage goes to finishing off that last bit of shield, and the rest gets dumped onto the hull.

The way you can avoid this is by using more DPS-y weapons to drop (or at least finish off) the shield, THEN bust out the heavy hitters on the modules. As long as you stay on target, you'll minimize the hull damage done.

geoffrey.hdt · Jul 14, 2015

Damn...are you seing this on Galnet??? I can now access the Clipper with my petty "Outsider" rank???
"As part of the celebrations for this news it was also announced that all independent pilots with an active rank with the Imperial Navy will be able to purchase the Imperial Courier and Imperial Clipper ships."
I'd be damned if I do not give it a try...

Abil Midena · Jul 14, 2015

geoffrey.hdt said:
Damn...are you seing this on Galnet??? I can now access the Clipper with my petty "Outsider" rank???
"As part of the celebrations for this news it was also announced that all independent pilots with an active rank with the Imperial Navy will be able to purchase the Imperial Courier and Imperial Clipper ships."
I'd be damned if I do not give it a try...

Yeah, clipper is nice.

BTW, I would see an FdL pirate operation going something like this:

FdL: "stop, gimme them cargos".
Other guy: "Ok, here's 20t of gold".
FdL: "thanks". long pause. "uhh, can you stay here and watch that cargo while I go get a ship that can actually carry the loot?".

Enjoy the Clipper.

Rob2984 · Jul 14, 2015

FDL is I think more for combat, for piracy it has to sacrifice somewhere to make space for cargo, but if you can make it work should be fun. Clipper is, as many have said, the obvious choice for speed and firepower, although it does have a weakness to chaff. Python is a great ship, but not a great pirate ship. Anything that most targets can outrun without even needing all four pips to engines is going to make only very rare or very lucky paydays without some faster wingmates to help them.

Quineloe · Jul 14, 2015

Three railguns? I'm pretty sure some cargo ships will just explode if hit by that.

Muffindrake · Jul 14, 2015

Quineloe said:
Three railguns? I'm pretty sure some cargo ships will just explode if hit by that.

I ran six railguns on an Asp and can confirm a shieldless t6 just blows up.

FDL loadout

http://edshipyard.com/#/L=70O,9qS9qS9qS5Rr5Rr01Q01Q3RO0-I0_g0_g,2-7_7_6Q6u9Y6u5A,08c7RA9tu5PU5PU

The above puts you under the power limit with both chaff enabled and all non-needed systems disabled.

Though I think that using a medium railgun on a huge hardpoint is some sort of waste. Isn't having a GIANT CANNON or HUMONGOUS ACCELERATOR OF HOT GOO more fun?

Disclaimer: I have never flown an FDL, but have fair pirating experience.