I think this topic has been discussed before, and I know a lot of people are against it, but really the Fer De Lance does need some tweaking with its powerplant. I have been playing the Fer De Lance for about 2 months and I love the thing. Python is awesome, but my heart just cannot just embrace it the way that it has embraced the FDL. I love my class 4 PA and herein lies the problem. With the python you can max it out with everything with minimum power module management, with the FDL this is impossible. Whats the point in having all of those extra util slots if you cannot use them. Now I understand we want to keep a balance here, we dont want to OP the FDL. Instead of having the option to have a larger class power plant, how about we make the current class power plant 2mw more powerful, OR make the Class 4 PA less power hungry. Yes I could swap out to a class 3 energy weapon or class 4 cannon, but part of the appeal of the FDL is the c4 PA. I dont want to OP it, but I think some compromise needs to happen. Not being able to run more than 1 shield booster and 1 SCB (unpowered due to module management) is a bit disheartening. I think the FDL sacrifices too much compared to the Python, admittedly they are 2 very different kinds of ships, but have similar abilities in regards to combat, but the Python has non existent power issues, huge cargo spaces and bigger fuel tank for slightly less maneuverability ,lower speed and no huge hardpoint. But the benefits of 3-4 shield boosters 2 SCB's and plenty of room for multiple hull upgrades more than makes up for that. I just think if your building a combat ship, that you would give it plenty of power to support various systems, limit them, yes, but dont overdo it.
Ships Fer De Lance Power Issues
- Thread starter vindicator jones
- Start date
I have used an FDL since they came out and think that without the slight under power, the ship would be invincible, and then what is the point of playing? (much like the Python, before its nerf). I quite like the trade-off that you have to make per ship. I have a 5A reactor with a B4 cannon and 4 F2 pulses ( and don't have power or heat issues ) and I run 3 shield boosters and 2 SCBs. It does mean only powering one SCB at a time and actively managing pips - but isn't that half the fun in combat?
PAs are awesome but there has to be a trade off for such weapons, be it power, heat, manoeuvrability or size of the platform.
PAs are awesome but there has to be a trade off for such weapons, be it power, heat, manoeuvrability or size of the platform.
Yeah power management is difficult. I can imagine its even harder if your're trying to run a class 4 PA!
I love the FDL enough to enjoy not using it 'properly' which probably helps me with power management.
I have a C3gb beam on the class 4 point (I just can't get the cannon to work and have not even tried the PA). The medium points are all gb multi's.
It might not the optimum set up for the FDL, but I don't play PvP so don't mind. The upside is its good for power usage allowing shield boosters and cell banks without power fiddling.
I love the FDL enough to enjoy not using it 'properly' which probably helps me with power management.
I have a C3gb beam on the class 4 point (I just can't get the cannon to work and have not even tried the PA). The medium points are all gb multi's.
It might not the optimum set up for the FDL, but I don't play PvP so don't mind. The upside is its good for power usage allowing shield boosters and cell banks without power fiddling.
Only change i would make to the fdl is fuel tank along with an increase in jump distance.
I pilot a FDL with 4 C2F beam lasers and 1 C4F cannon. I'd love to equip a PA but due to pwoer stuff this isn't possible. I have 3 chaff laucnhers and 3 heat sink launchers (beam lasers 
) and a total of 530 MJ shields wit ha 5B shield gen but 2 4B SCBs which are also very powerful and with good timing even more powerful than the shield boosters.
However, I still think a slight icnrease in power isn't wrong sicne the shield boosters are introduced, power plants remained the same. In my opinion, a slight rise in 1.60 MW is enough (22.00 MW total for 5A power plant) and fair. It would provide enough power to equip a 5A shield gen with some good weaponary but without shield boosters. I'd even be fine with an increase of just 1.00 - 1.20 MW.
The same applies for the seize 3 power plant. I used to have power problems with my Viper BEFORE shield boosters were added. Don't want to know how big the struggle might be now.
And please, icnrease the fuel tank. it is a medium ship so it should have a little bit more fuel >.>
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How many shield boosters and SCBs?
) and a total of 530 MJ shields wit ha 5B shield gen but 2 4B SCBs which are also very powerful and with good timing even more powerful than the shield boosters. However, I still think a slight icnrease in power isn't wrong sicne the shield boosters are introduced, power plants remained the same. In my opinion, a slight rise in 1.60 MW is enough (22.00 MW total for 5A power plant) and fair. It would provide enough power to equip a 5A shield gen with some good weaponary but without shield boosters. I'd even be fine with an increase of just 1.00 - 1.20 MW.
The same applies for the seize 3 power plant. I used to have power problems with my Viper BEFORE shield boosters were added. Don't want to know how big the struggle might be now.
And please, icnrease the fuel tank. it is a medium ship so it should have a little bit more fuel >.>
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How many shield boosters and SCBs?
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All of the combat specific ships suffer from power management and fitting issues, the eagle, viper, vulture and it seems the FDL.
This has been done on purpose to stop them from becoming OP. It's a trade off - fit the C4 PA and loose something else. You can fit utilities in those slots but not if you want all A class modules, SCBs and the best weapons. I have similar issues in my Vulture trying to fit everything I want on it is just not possible so I have to sacrifice the 'less important' attributes for the ones I feel are imperative.
I understand the frustration, you have a 50m CR ship with probably 100m + CR of fittings and you don't want to compromise but the suggestions you make would take the FDL into OP territory, if that happens why bother getting anything else for combat?
The Python got a huge nerf because it could do everything, now you need to fly it in a very specific way and fit it accordingly to get the best out of it, it also doesn't do well when tackling wings of smaller ships, so no power issues as such but a few other issues to compensate.
This has been done on purpose to stop them from becoming OP. It's a trade off - fit the C4 PA and loose something else. You can fit utilities in those slots but not if you want all A class modules, SCBs and the best weapons. I have similar issues in my Vulture trying to fit everything I want on it is just not possible so I have to sacrifice the 'less important' attributes for the ones I feel are imperative.
I understand the frustration, you have a 50m CR ship with probably 100m + CR of fittings and you don't want to compromise but the suggestions you make would take the FDL into OP territory, if that happens why bother getting anything else for combat?
The Python got a huge nerf because it could do everything, now you need to fly it in a very specific way and fit it accordingly to get the best out of it, it also doesn't do well when tackling wings of smaller ships, so no power issues as such but a few other issues to compensate.
I wanted to love the Class 4 PA on my FDL, but couldn't often hit anything with it to justify its power usage. Now I use a class 4 gimballed cannon, tied to the same fire group as a class 2 gimballed cannon. Then I use 3 class 2 gimballed beam lasers. I also have 3 class A shield boosters and a B4 Shield Cell unit. Of course, I had to compromise on some modules (C rated thrusters) and the power management sets many things to deactivate when weapons are deployed (including the SC unit - so it can only be used when weapons are retracted); but it makes the FDL a hardy beast, even so. I can't help loving it, much more than the Vulture I had, or even the Python (which maybe more useful, but doesn't seem as 'fun').
Three C shield boosters, no SCBs. I've never tried using SCBs, so maybe I'm missing out on something - but for PvE it's as much of a tank as it needs to be.
I dont think adding 1-2MW to the existing power plant would OP it, it would just allow a little more flexibility with setups. You will still have to power manage like crazy to get the most out of it, but still take advantage of the available util slots. Even reducing the power requirement of the Class 4 PA would help, as it is not an easy weapon to over use anyway. Comparing it to the Python I think that has the better tradeoff to benefits ratio compared to the FDL.
The FDL has amazing maneuverability, are you running A rated thrusters?? I mean, nothing is going to be as maneuverable as the Vulture, that is probable the best fighter in the game. As for weapon choice, the vulture is EXTREMELY limited with weapon selection as you only have 2 large hardpoints, the FDL is actually quite versatile and the complaints about weapon positioning, I think, are completely exaggerated. The side mounts can be very useful with turreted weapons, but not only that if I start to feel myself overheating, I can move offside to the target to allow only some weapons to fire and cooldown in the process. The FDL is in no way perfect, but used correctly it is utterly devastating, that Class 4 PA is just incredible, and the sense of achievement when you use it correctly, especially against small targets is intoxicating.
JUST GIVE ME 2 more MW GODDAMINT!!! hehehehe
The FDL has amazing maneuverability, are you running A rated thrusters?? I mean, nothing is going to be as maneuverable as the Vulture, that is probable the best fighter in the game. As for weapon choice, the vulture is EXTREMELY limited with weapon selection as you only have 2 large hardpoints, the FDL is actually quite versatile and the complaints about weapon positioning, I think, are completely exaggerated. The side mounts can be very useful with turreted weapons, but not only that if I start to feel myself overheating, I can move offside to the target to allow only some weapons to fire and cooldown in the process. The FDL is in no way perfect, but used correctly it is utterly devastating, that Class 4 PA is just incredible, and the sense of achievement when you use it correctly, especially against small targets is intoxicating.
JUST GIVE ME 2 more MW GODDAMINT!!! hehehehe
I know I should upgrade to the Python, rather than having the FDL and two other ships for other purposes rather than the Python that can multitask everything, but I am on the same page with you. I just cannot seem to part with it. Between its powerful stature and of course the speed it has compared to the Python, I would rather deal with the inferior power plant than upgrade to what is clearly the better of the two ships when it comes to load outs with the Python. It is definitely not a money issue, it is simply preference. Granted, I haven't even tried the Python out yet, so this comparison comes with that detriment and bias.
I have tried and tested several loadouts, including various loadouts that equip the 4/F PA in the Huge slot. I have even tried downgrading the 4 size slot to a a 3/G beam and then pulse weapon. I simply keep going back to the 4B/G Cannon, because it frees up 2 power to diversify with other modules and the cannon wrecks havoc on any ship with its shields down. Here is my loadout that I landed on and have stuck with on my FDL, and it has served me well with any and all combat missions to farming:
http://coriolis.io/outfit/fer_de_la...4a345d6bf1.AwRj4yrI.EwBhEYy6bZ1EA===?bn=FDL 1
Obviously, there is some power management with the hardpoints deployed, as everyone has stated in this post as well as others, but despite that shortcoming with the benefit of the 6 utility slots - 2 more than a Python - I am pushing 855MJ shields and change, and its weapons loadout not only takes down the large ships without faulter or issue, but it simly melts the smaller ships. I can get attacking full on by any PvE ship, or multiple small ships forming a wing and it will not penetrate even the first circle of my shields. Generally, they only have gone down in CZ zones when the spawn is greatly uneven with the opposing side including all Anacondas and Pythons concentrating their attacks on my ship. Even then, I can run away from harms way very quickly due to the speed of this larger ship being more commensurate with the smaller ships. The hardest part of owning this ship, at least from the "get go" was acclimating myself to the manueverability since I graduated to the FDL from the Vulture. However, once I got acquainted with using reverse and forward thrusters on my x52 Pro set up, it was easy to master.
Conclusively, I do agree that the Powerplant comes a bit short on this ship, but I think that was intentional as to make it a step down from the Python, not equivalent, or make the ship overpowered. Kind of that same issue that pops up a lot when discussing ships, especially the FDL and even more so with the Vulture, which is the global assumption that the developers wanted to balance these ships.
Where I believe this ship truly could benefit from upgrades is the 8T fuel tank, which is absolutely ridiculous for a ship this size, it should at least be 16, and the FSD is seriously gimped at 12-15ly depending upon layout, and that is its optimal distance. Regarding the latter, knowing that the purpose of this ship is to fill the slot of a heavy fighter, the FSD should be upgraded to the next size because everyone is going to weigh down this ship with weapons, boosters, SCBs, Hull upgrades, and even Hull Reinforcement modules. I skipped the latter two, and limited my SCB to one since, as I said, I am not much for PvP, and in PvE you want speed not reinforcement. I boost 405 with my setup, which keeps it tight to smaller vessels when chasing them down. However, you add those multiple SCBs, Hull Reinforcement modules and upgrade the hull, I wouldn't be surprised if the jumps are under 10ly or close to that number.
I have tried and tested several loadouts, including various loadouts that equip the 4/F PA in the Huge slot. I have even tried downgrading the 4 size slot to a a 3/G beam and then pulse weapon. I simply keep going back to the 4B/G Cannon, because it frees up 2 power to diversify with other modules and the cannon wrecks havoc on any ship with its shields down. Here is my loadout that I landed on and have stuck with on my FDL, and it has served me well with any and all combat missions to farming:
http://coriolis.io/outfit/fer_de_la...4a345d6bf1.AwRj4yrI.EwBhEYy6bZ1EA===?bn=FDL 1
Obviously, there is some power management with the hardpoints deployed, as everyone has stated in this post as well as others, but despite that shortcoming with the benefit of the 6 utility slots - 2 more than a Python - I am pushing 855MJ shields and change, and its weapons loadout not only takes down the large ships without faulter or issue, but it simly melts the smaller ships. I can get attacking full on by any PvE ship, or multiple small ships forming a wing and it will not penetrate even the first circle of my shields. Generally, they only have gone down in CZ zones when the spawn is greatly uneven with the opposing side including all Anacondas and Pythons concentrating their attacks on my ship. Even then, I can run away from harms way very quickly due to the speed of this larger ship being more commensurate with the smaller ships. The hardest part of owning this ship, at least from the "get go" was acclimating myself to the manueverability since I graduated to the FDL from the Vulture. However, once I got acquainted with using reverse and forward thrusters on my x52 Pro set up, it was easy to master.
Conclusively, I do agree that the Powerplant comes a bit short on this ship, but I think that was intentional as to make it a step down from the Python, not equivalent, or make the ship overpowered. Kind of that same issue that pops up a lot when discussing ships, especially the FDL and even more so with the Vulture, which is the global assumption that the developers wanted to balance these ships.
Where I believe this ship truly could benefit from upgrades is the 8T fuel tank, which is absolutely ridiculous for a ship this size, it should at least be 16, and the FSD is seriously gimped at 12-15ly depending upon layout, and that is its optimal distance. Regarding the latter, knowing that the purpose of this ship is to fill the slot of a heavy fighter, the FSD should be upgraded to the next size because everyone is going to weigh down this ship with weapons, boosters, SCBs, Hull upgrades, and even Hull Reinforcement modules. I skipped the latter two, and limited my SCB to one since, as I said, I am not much for PvP, and in PvE you want speed not reinforcement. I boost 405 with my setup, which keeps it tight to smaller vessels when chasing them down. However, you add those multiple SCBs, Hull Reinforcement modules and upgrade the hull, I wouldn't be surprised if the jumps are under 10ly or close to that number.
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Imagine for a moment SCBs weren't a thing. Most of your FDL power issues would suddenly vanish. I know because I have ditched the SCB in my FDL and and now have to make no big compromise, even can afford the luxury of a C rated KWS and A rated sensors.
No idea how you managed this. I never use SCBs. Had a loadout with A rated everything except life support and sensors, and managed to squeeze in 2 Class 2 beams alongside two Hammers and the huge cannon. But I could only manage either one A shield booster and a D KWS, or a C+B booster and an E KWS. Then I started looking into the demands of Prismatic Shields... and ditched the whole thing for a Python! I do find the Python a little sluggish at the side of the FDL, but even with 6A power supply and distributor I outgun my old FDL with 3 class 3 beams alongside the Hammers, and almost equal it on shields with 2 A boosters. Plus I have the headroom of Class 7 power modules...when I can afford them! The Python I have cost me 30m on top of the Ferdie... and that's without class 7 equipment.
You could just not have the SCBS and just pile on the shield boosters? My wee Vulture with its B5 shield and 3 Shield Boosters is nigh impervious to damage. I just set my FSD interdictor and Standard docking computer to setting three so they disengage automatically when I enter combat and deploy hard points.
See the link to my FDL build from my signature: http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=70O,7RL5Rr5Rr5Rr5Rr3wU01Q01Q0_g0_g0_g,2-7_7_6Q6u9Y6Q5A,7Sk4_w07203w9ok
With decent power priorities, this works very well.
Ah I see. Set the non-essentials to low priority and you end up with .01KW left! Nice.
Thing is you are using pulse lasers I see... I prefer the damage of beams. And once I earned the Hammers there was no going back really. So this set up wouldn't work for me. Tried dropping to C Thrusters but it handled like a dog. Was better with A Thrusters and only one booster.
Like I said I ended up back in a Python using this set-up: http://www.edshipyard.com/#/L=705,4...,2-9Y9Y7_6u9YA08I,7UI0AA0AA08c08c15O7fE9sA0nE
I know I'll get some flak for some of the choices here, especially the docking computer, but I'm quite lazy when it comes to that. The shield cells are only for emergencies and disabled during weapons deployment. I quite like having the 6A power setup too. I know on paper it's hardly any different to using 7C at considerably higher cost, but I happen to think the weight saving of 80T helps it handle a little more like my old Ferdy. Tho this could just be my imagination.
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I run a down classed 'A' powerplant on the Python as well - in fact I run with a 5A which powers everything (including max class A thrusters) - albeit it is a trading Python and would need a 6+ if it were a fighting one.
For the Fer-de-Lance and beams, how much burst damage do you need?
For the Fer-de-Lance and beams, how much burst damage do you need?
Been using the FDL in a lot of PVP the past couple of weeks, and also observing my enemies in them. A wing of 2 FDL's with experienced pilots can make life hell for any wings they meet. Sure, they might have to system jump now and then, but they can keep up sustained attacks and wear out larger wings, by picking off the small ships and ganging up on the larger ones. Would be too powerful if you gave them any more power. Just my opinion though.
PS The huge PA on the FDL is my fave weapon in the game right now.
PS The huge PA on the FDL is my fave weapon in the game right now.